Spy Update! :D

[Show No Mercy]

I like the revolver. I think it adds a bit more power and range to the spy as opposed to being a completely weak and short-ranged class. The sapper should stay the same but should maybe add the ability to throw it or apply the sapper and begin the process remotely - from a hiding spot while charging cloak, etc. That way, atleast, the engies teleporter traps will not always work for those sap-happy spies giving away their position on a lonely, lowly teleporter.

 

[dr4gon?]

garrote an engy and watch him as he helplessly watches his sentry die!!

 

[R.E.D]

I thought it was real... *sigh*

until I read "without dieing yourself"

LOLz!

 

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

Excellent ideas, here's to hoping valve might take a listen.

 

[*! Akster !*]

I have no idea why peopel are thinking tehse new eps are good...

First the gun, instant crit from back shots is just insane, you have any idea how much damage spies do when they crit?

The Garrot well....a weapn that kills withut undisguising? You have got to be kidding me...how powerful do you want the spy to be, if he never undiisguises he may never have to hide to edisguise making it kind of easy to spy...

the second idea is good, if it stays on for 7 seconds or so then falls off automatically.

 

[NYC 3L1T3]

I have no idea why peopel are thinking tehse new eps are good...

First the gun, instant crit from back shots is just insane, you have any idea how much damage spies do when they crit? I agree. 120 crit from Revolver is crazy, but the normal damage from the PPK would be reduced much lower, so that would mean the normal crit multiplier would lower the damage for crits too. Still iffy about it though.

The Garrot well....a weapn that kills withut undisguising? You have got to be kidding me...how powerful do you want the spy to be, if he never undiisguises he may never have to hide to edisguise making it kind of easy to spy... Well it's in good measure to redisguise anyways, because if all you did was stay 1 disguise and garrote people, you'd be spy checked. And the process would still take some time (a few seconds, it *drains* health, not instant kill). However, I agree with you. It is a broken weapon and that's looking at it from a non-designer perspective where they'd need to add more animations and sounds.

the second idea is good, if it stays on for 7 seconds or so then falls off automatically. The problem is even at that low duration (which is far less than the 30+/- that is allegedly intended) would still make it so any sentry nest is cake for an uber rush to take everything out while the engineers die hopelessly.

Responses in bold.

 

[NYC 3L1T3]

it would be good if the garrote wasn't replacing the knife but was being a completely different weapon. You could destroy a whole sewer base in 2fort as a spy considering you sap then strangle the ppl to death. And I'm wondering what would happen if you use the garrote against a sentry. would the spy whip it to death?

But then the spy would always have a choice of whether to instant kill in a crowded area and cloak off or pick off lonely targets in a secluded area without losing a disguise or attracting too much attention. And they'd never need to hit M in spawn. The weapons should stay alternatives to promote alternative playstyles with drawbacks.

 

[Black cat]

The basic changes to the spy are by far the best part about this *update*. So many times I've had a line of 2 medics healing a single person, but in many cases be unable to catch up in time to grab the kill. Also, the cloak should be re-filled whenever the case is used (but not a dispenser ) as it is efectivly meant to be a restock, it already fully re-loads all your weapons and metal, so why not the cloak?

The Garrotte would need some work on, although if you can see a pyro staying behind a teamate, both stock still whilst one dies and you notice nothing, don't become a spy-checker!

The silenced PPK is the best, because it may sound like it is over-powerred, but if it had a slower rate of fire the opponent could easily turn around after being hit, or even accidentally moving aside, so it would be used as a finisher (the spy has too little health to be a fire-fighting class).

I do feel however that the magnetic sapper should do less damage than a normal one (magnetising the circuits) but be harder to knock off by the wrench.

 

[R.E.D]

My best balanced ideas so far are...

...if the spy is NOT moving, his cloak should last longer.

...if there is a narrow hallway the spy should be able to stick against a wall (only while cloaked) to prevent touching the enemy...

...bring back 'faking death' ability...

 

[Arbitrary]

PPK is probably a bit too good, like a long ranged backburner.
If the garrote had an obvious animation, like the person being choked grabbing at their neck, or somesuch, then it would be pretty balanced, albeit excellent for taking out engineers.
Magnetic sapper probably should just be "sapper, without damage, takes more hits to knock off" (4-5?)
Sadly, who knows what valve is actually going to do?

 

[NYC 3L1T3]

My best balanced ideas so far are...

...if the spy is NOT moving, his cloak should last longer.

...if there is a narrow hallway the spy should be able to stick against a wall (only while cloaked) to prevent touching the enemy...

...bring back 'faking death' ability...

The problem with that is due to many soldiers, demos, and SG's around, corpses are gibbed very often. And on top of that, most servers only have corpses on the world for a few seconds. I agree with cloak though. You get 8 seconds of full cloak with like a 30 second downtime.

 

[Black cat]

Yeah, maybe the dead thing could would use up cloak time, or be temporary, but it should definately un-cloak the spy and make a dying cry.
Cloak lasting longer if standing still is also a good idea.

 

[s3rv0]

That way, atleast, the engies teleporter traps will not always work for those sap-happy spies giving away their position on a lonely, lowly teleporter.

One of my favorite engi tactics. Place my teleporter on a route that spies will approach me from, about 5-10 seconds walk from my gear. Oh look it's being sapped! -pull out shotgun, announce spy over voice chat- Of course, the good spies avoid it. But they are in the minority.

 

[apocalypsefu]

wow it would be amazing if valve did put some of these weapons into use, or even the changes to the spy class. Im not so sure about the wire, wouldn't it leave you exposed for all to see while your strangling someone?

 

[felon]

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1670

the next update is for the heavy class

 

[pimpinabox]

i disagree with many of you about the ppk. the ppk doesnt need to be exactly as powerful as the revolver.. they are two totally different guns. the ppk would probably be alot less powerful. the garrote on the other hand .. i dont even see as feasible. its only purpose would be to kill engi's and then spys would be so lost without the knife, i dont think the garrote would see that much use anyways. the magnetic sapper sounds like a good solid idea all around but i personally feel any more than 15 seconds without being knocked off is too long. get a stop watch and time 15 seconds. then think to yourself how long it would take a demo/medic to take out 5 sentries without the sentries firing back... less than 15 seconds

 

[pimpinabox]

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1670

the next update is for the heavy class

yep we know.. but heavys arent that exciting lol =P

 

[*! Akster !*]

The basic changes to the spy are by far the best part about this *update*. So many times I've had a line of 2 medics healing a single person, but in many cases be unable to catch up in time to grab the kill. Also, the cloak should be re-filled whenever the case is used (but not a dispenser ) as it is efectivly meant to be a restock, it already fully re-loads all your weapons and metal, so why not the cloak?
'that would mean if the spy knew where all the dispensers and ammo pickups were, he would know how t stay disguised PERMANENTLY....which is not good to my ears...

The Garrotte would need some work on, although if you can see a pyro staying behind a teamate, both stock still whilst one dies and you notice nothing, don't become a spy-checker!
you sould not be playing TF period if you dont notice that haha

The silenced PPK is the best, because it may sound like it is over-powerred, but if it had a slower rate of fire the opponent could easily turn around after being hit, or even accidentally moving aside, so it would be used as a finisher (the spy has too little health to be a fire-fighting class).
Spy is actually not bad at being a fire fighting class, his revolver does ok damage and very good damage if HS, having the normal crit dmg for the revolver if you shoot someone in the back would make spy too powerful

I do feel however that the magnetic sapper should do less damage than a normal one (magnetising the circuits) but be harder to knock off by the wrench.
Such as like 4 hits by a wrenc or something but do little damage, sounds good enough

Replies in bold.

Also, the garrot seems like it will not get in the gamme in a million years, where would a spy be without his knife? Well, if they have a crit revolveer then thats self answering

PS i cantw ait for hvy achievements, hvy is my favourite character to backstab even more so than a few blind snipers

 

[Black cat]

'that would mean if the spy knew where all the dispensers and ammo pickups were, he would know how t stay disguised PERMANENTLY....which is not good to my ears...
Not ammo cases, that would lead to prolonged use of the cloak and near permanent use of the cloak for many experianced players (Unless someone noticed all the ammo was missing). I stated that I thought that only the case in the re-spawn area should refill the bar, not too usefull whilst you are in the opponents 2fort!

you sould not be playing TF period if you dont notice that haha
Indeed!

Spy is actually not bad at being a fire fighting class, his revolver does ok damage and very good damage if HS, having the normal crit dmg for the revolver if you shoot someone in the back would make spy too powerful.
Yes, I am another of those perople that argues that revolvers are not weak, as I find that I can rack up quite a few kills with it in a single life. Still, the gun itelft would do less damdge than the existing revovlver, so needing 2-3 shots for a soldier kill with a slower firing rate would still be pretty even IMHO.

I'm the bolded parts! If these updates did come out I believe that I would only really use the PPK, as I like my knife too much to swap and I like to be able to get the SG kill myself instead of handing it over to the Pyro who until now has been hiding around the corner.

 

[Carne]

The pistol with silencer and the magnetic sapper, I like those ideas, but the garrote thingie, wouldnt that kinda ruin the feeling of actually backstabbing people ?