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lolwarcraft ?
Anyway, I still want the sandvich to be a HoT like the medic's heal. It shouldn't stack though.
(This reminds me too much of WoW... Damnit, I'm starting to miss my little Druid...)
-Calle
Thanks for making the Heavy just a little more OP, Valve :]
- Thread starter Tsumaru808
- Start date
Anyway, I still want the sandvich to be a HoT like the medic's heal. It shouldn't stack though.
(This reminds me too much of WoW... Damnit, I'm starting to miss my little Druid...)
-Calle
Well really i wasn't think of World of Warcraft, silly game by the way, but if thats how you interpret it, sure go ahead.
I was thinking of a way so that he would be more group oriented instead of medic buddy, IF they really want him to stray from having awesome synergy with the medic.
Their choice not mine, all i can do is influence.
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That's exactly right! This gun is made to counter scouts and other classes like pyros. If it slows them down that much, they have to turn and fight... and they will lose. They did exactly what they had planned.
PLUS, they actually released the numbers for the gun, and it's gonna be 50% (I'm pretty sure).
Also, in case anyone doesn't know, they also updated the achievement page, and it will be a sandvich.
Slowing players in an FPS = BAD BAD BAD
For one, this will result in heavies hanging back and just spraying, slowing down pyros and frustrating them to absolutely no end. Imagine playing a pyro, and then getting hit with a single shot from a heavy gun. You can no longer reach your enemy, even if it isn't the heavy, and will leave you much more vulnerable.
Other heavies will have no chance at retreat, meaning that there is now even less strategy to consider when playing heavy, as you no longer have to consider retreating, as retreating is no longer an option.
Spy checking is now easier for the heavy, as he can randomly spray in one direction, and when a pyro starts to crawl by at walking speed, you have your spy.
Scouts have the same problem as the pyro, except even worse, as scouts are one of the most obvious targets for heavies to hit, next to medics.
Even snipers might not be able to defend themselves. While taking damage, the scope jumps around erratically, and with the slow, the sniper will have trouble retreating and finding a good place to charge the shot for the heavy.
Don't even get me about the soldier, who is horribly mismatched against the heavy to begin with.
The demo isn't really affected, although slowing in any sort of FPS is terribly annoying.
The engineers sentry actually benifits from this, as the heavy will have a harder time destroying the sentry, although the slow will make it harder for an engineer to reach a sentry under fire.
For one, this will result in heavies hanging back and just spraying, slowing down pyros and frustrating them to absolutely no end. Imagine playing a pyro, and then getting hit with a single shot from a heavy gun. You can no longer reach your enemy, even if it isn't the heavy, and will leave you much more vulnerable.
Other heavies will have no chance at retreat, meaning that there is now even less strategy to consider when playing heavy, as you no longer have to consider retreating, as retreating is no longer an option.
Spy checking is now easier for the heavy, as he can randomly spray in one direction, and when a pyro starts to crawl by at walking speed, you have your spy.
Scouts have the same problem as the pyro, except even worse, as scouts are one of the most obvious targets for heavies to hit, next to medics.
Even snipers might not be able to defend themselves. While taking damage, the scope jumps around erratically, and with the slow, the sniper will have trouble retreating and finding a good place to charge the shot for the heavy.
Don't even get me about the soldier, who is horribly mismatched against the heavy to begin with.
The demo isn't really affected, although slowing in any sort of FPS is terribly annoying.
The engineers sentry actually benifits from this, as the heavy will have a harder time destroying the sentry, although the slow will make it harder for an engineer to reach a sentry under fire.
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I'm so upset about this! I've started playing scout a lot, because while I don't get the most kills, I have the most fun. But now they have taken away the ONE advantage that a scout has, his speed! Scouts already don't stand a chance in combat with a heavy, their only choice is to flee. This kills that, and the scout, very effectively. Scouts are already not played much, this will cut that to nothing. 
In no game should the fate of a face off be determined before the match even starts. A pyro facing against a normal heavy might actually pull it off. Now, its near impossible. A scout has even LESS of a chance of doing anything now, as even before, it was possible to retreat and hide, or even run right past the heavy. Now, both are nearly impossible.
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My text is in big bold letters.
My text is Underlined Blue
Originally Posted by AWPerator
Other heavies will have no chance at retreat, meaning that there is now even less strategy to consider when playing heavy, as you no longer have to consider retreating, as retreating is no longer an option.
Other Heavies never had the chance to retreat before anyway, Natascha is not going to chance anything.
I've often retreated if I see a heavy accompanied with another class, such as a soldier or another heavy.
Spy checking is now easier for the heavy, as he can randomly spray in one direction, and when a pyro starts to crawl by at walking speed, you have your spy.
Most Heavies in pubs aren't even spy checking, so that won't happen often.
It won't happen often, but it'll still happen. I've been killed by heavies as a spy, although that might just be my lack of skill as spy
Scouts have the same problem as the pyro, except even worse, as scouts are one of the most obvious targets for heavies to hit, next to medics.
Actually, most heavies have other priorities than medics and scouts. Most of the time they go for other heavies and soldiers.
I often go for the scout first, as they are more likely to jump over my head and bat my medics face in. Personal preference
Even snipers might not be able to defend themselves. While taking damage, the scope jumps around erratically, and with the slow, the sniper will have trouble retreating and finding a good place to charge the shot for the heavy.
Like the Heavy ever hits a sniper anyway... And one or two lucky hits don't mean anything.
I've been sniping on Turbine while a heavy was firing at me from the opposite battlements, and couldn't get a decent shot off because the damage movement. I'm also a pretty decent sniper as well, and took me 3 shots to take out the heavy.
Don't even get me about the soldier, who is horribly mismatched against the heavy to begin with.
Do you even know how big of a threat Soldiers are? They can kill a heavy pretty quickly. Now Soldiers can't exploit corners as much anymore, if the heavy is using Natascha.
I play both heavy and soldier and I've honestly found soldiers to be little threat when I'm paired with a medic, or at least a competent ally who can take care of the soldier.
The engineers sentry actually benifits from this, as the heavy will have a harder time destroying the sentry, although the slow will make it harder for an engineer to reach a sentry under fire.
Again, most havies have other priorities in pubs. I don't see heavies going for the engi in pubs, do you?
I've seen uber heavies go for sentries, and in the right circumstances, can outdamage an engineer repairing.
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Big Red!
-Calle
My text is BIG 'N' RED.I've often retreated if I see a heavy accompanied with another class, such as a soldier or another heavy.
Maybe I'm just bad at this game but when I meet a heavy and there's no corner to hide I'm dead (if it's close or mid range).
It won't happen often, but it'll still happen. I've been killed by heavies as a spy, although that might just be my lack of skill as spy.
No no no, I don't mean getting killed by a heavy who's just randomly shooting around, I mean a heavy who's actually really spy checking when he knows a spy is after his engineer or something like that.
I've been sniping on Turbine while a heavy was firing at me from the opposite battlements, and couldn't get a decent shot off because the damage movement. I'm also a pretty decent sniper as well, and took me 3 shots to take out the heavy.
Yeah that's because you suck.
No, it's because Turbine sucks (in my oppinion). And tell me, how many heavies do you see, spraying bullets from one battlement to the other? That never happens to me. Ever.
I play both heavy and soldier and I've honestly found soldiers to be little threat when I'm paired with a medic, or at least a competent ally who can take care of the soldier.
A lonely heavy dies quickly if he didn't spin his gun yet. You can easily get two rockets in his face, only two left and he's dead. All you need is a crit rocket or a corner.
I've seen uber heavies go for sentries, and in the right circumstances, can outdamage an engineer repairing.
Yes, the heavy is able to destroy a sentry when there's an engineer repairing it. Only when he's ?ber'd and the medic actually know that he has to run to the sentry so the heavy can shoot at the sentry point blank/close range. Otherwise the sentry won't go down.
-Calle
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man, imagine if you caught a heavy with natascha...
The heavy overpowered? What is he now?
The pyro is supposed to be the one who's best up close and personal. But the heavy makes him cry if used correctly. His melee is the most powerful excluding the spy's backstab. He also has 300 health, which is a lot without a medic. The only sure way to kill a Heavy with a medic is to head shot him or back stab, unless the enemy team is concentrating all their fire on one Heavy.
His gun's range is relatively medium, which means Natascha will just hamper the entire enemy team. Valve will probably take it away after the constant whining they'll receive about how broken the Heavy is (remember the pyro?).
The pyro is supposed to be the one who's best up close and personal. But the heavy makes him cry if used correctly. His melee is the most powerful excluding the spy's backstab. He also has 300 health, which is a lot without a medic. The only sure way to kill a Heavy with a medic is to head shot him or back stab, unless the enemy team is concentrating all their fire on one Heavy.
His gun's range is relatively medium, which means Natascha will just hamper the entire enemy team. Valve will probably take it away after the constant whining they'll receive about how broken the Heavy is (remember the pyro?).
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I don't think the heavy is OP compared to a lot of the classes here.
Pyro is supposed to be the best when up close and personal. And he can make any heavy turn into bacon if used -correctly-, just as any heavy can blast a pyro if used -correctly-. The misconception people keep bringing into this is human error and personal preference. If everybody did everything a specific way all the time, or the right-way all the time, your going to have issues anyway, not to mention a boring game.
A large part of any FPS is waiting for your opponent to make a mistake.
I myself am a decent heavy, at least in personal opinion, but that doesnt mean I don't die a lot. crit rockets, headshots, demo stickies, pipebomb spam, spies, all of these things take down heavies quick, medic or not. People seem to be forgetting that the heavy is the primary tank class. Of course you aren't going to be able to take him head-on by yourself without an advantage of range or backup. that is how tanks are designed. And lets face it: If an entire team is dumb enough to chock itself into a tiny hallway, and dont have an uber ready or going, they deserve what they get for that mistake, be it from heavy, stickybombs, or critrockets.
If you're being dominated by heavies left and right, you either need to change your tactics or avoid them if you can, whichever suits your class' best interests. I take down heavies all the time as a soldier, I make it my job to do so.
The final point is, none of these new weapons are going to make the heavy a massive threat to the game. Natasha makes the heavy even more defensive than Sasha does, meaning hes going to be poking around corners a lot. Howeve, a lot of players that use Sasha already use this tactic when playing a defensive heavy. If you are a scout, you try to avoid confrontation alltogether, at least if the intelligence is your motive. Medics should hide behind their meat-shields, and travel in groups. If either go into a hallway alone or just go in blind, they deserve to be shot to death. Just as any heavy that wanders into a wide-open space without company or at least a medic deserves to have his skull turned into a pudding bowl.
Powerful? Yes. Overpowered? Hardly.
Ok first of all, to all you whiners, we don't even know how over powered Natasha is, so suck it up and wait. Valve has (hopefully) tested this and seen what the right specifics are.
And you guys are saying that pyro's suck, heavy's win. That right there makes no sense, pyro's have the upper hand in numerous situations against heavy's, and not everyone plays the exact way. Therefore you should be whining about how pro players keep dominating you for hours, not how the heavy will own.
Natasha to overpowered? Give the pyro back his 50hp bonus and then we'll see. And remember we still haven't seen the rest of the updates.
[Edit] just went to the website and just remembered that a SASHA wielding HWG will own the Natasha welding HWG
See its not that bad. [/Edit]
And you guys are saying that pyro's suck, heavy's win. That right there makes no sense, pyro's have the upper hand in numerous situations against heavy's, and not everyone plays the exact way. Therefore you should be whining about how pro players keep dominating you for hours, not how the heavy will own.
Natasha to overpowered? Give the pyro back his 50hp bonus and then we'll see. And remember we still haven't seen the rest of the updates.
[Edit] just went to the website and just remembered that a SASHA wielding HWG will own the Natasha welding HWG
See its not that bad. [/Edit]
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What he said.
Good point. That 25% less damage from Natasha gives Sasha the upperhand in a heavy vs. heavy fight due to the fact that the reduced movement speed really means nothing to a heavy.
The one thing that'll make this interesting is a heavy w/ Sasha + medic vs. heavy /w Natasha + medic. Sasha does more damage, but Natasha slows the other heavy down. If the one with Natasha can live long enough, that may give him the advantage to maneuver enough to take out the other heavy's medic, while the other heavy may be pretty much locked in place. And, once Natasha does damage to the other medic, he'll pretty much be a goner, while the other medic will still be able to run around and avoid fire.
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The Heavy is supposed to be the close combat class, the pyro is just the close combat class for ambushing.
Oh and people... Except for the knife and the bat, ALL the melee weapons are exactly the same. the heavy's fists are as strong as a bottle, and a broken bottle is NOT stronger than a normal melee, okay?
300HP isn't much when you're that slow. You're getting shred to pieces if you don't know how to handle the situation.
And the Heavy/Medic combo is designed to be tanking, not every class should be able to take them out without any problems.
Well, we don't even know who's going to get slower. Only the person Natascha shoots or the whole group? We don't know yet.
And why should Valve take it away? The only thing they'd do is nerf it, Natascha would be completly useless without the slowdown. Why should you use a weapon that only has -25% damage?
STOP WHINING GUYS!
We don't know anything about the weapons yet.
-Calle
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In my opinion, Natascha and Sascha are basically equal.
Natascha slows people down, which makes up for the less damage.
So they are pretty much equal.
Natascha slows people down, which makes up for the less damage.
So they are pretty much equal.
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They are quite different, actually.
Sure, they're both Miniguns but that's about it.
Sasha is the powerhouse, mowing down lots of enemies easily. If you're playing Heavy alot, you're getting this scenario quite often:
an enemy sees you.
He shoots you.
He runs away.
Now Natascha, however, is quite handy. She's abit weaker (although she looks alot better
) but the enemy just can't run away or hide around corners all the time.The gameplay is quite different.
-Calle
