Why vote scramble should not be needed

[TheZaw]

If teams are stacked, and a team is just steam rolling another the normal way to proceed with things it to vote scramble. If 60% of the people in the server say YES to the scramble, the teams are randomized. A situation that requires vote scramble in my opinion should never happen when any E's, Eg's, or Ego's are present in the server. The people in the clan are supposed to act like the grown-ups of the server, they have higher punishments for rules broken, they may have to do stuff they do not want to, and they have to enforce rules. If a your team is steam rolling another team, you should move onto the other side to try to even things out, especially if your topping the scoreboards each round. Nothing is more frusterating for new people to our server than to be steamrolled and have a vote scramble fail. If new people see clan members try to avoid steamrolling situations altogether, they will probably be returning to the server.

An example that happened on turbine today:

I topped the scoreboard's twice in a row on turbine. My first score was 22, my second was 15. And i was #1 mvp. The matches lasted about 5 minutes. After the second match i switched teams. I was thanked profusely, and we had a 15 minute close match of both teams making pretty good capture. Because i switched sides, both teams enjoyed the other matches more.


So yah, end rant thing. And remember, if vote scrambles happen, hit YES!

 

[Ancient of Ways]

I've topped scoreboards often (easily as Medic, sometimes as Heavy), but I'm not sure I'm one of the better players, lol. One of the things I do not do is leave a losing team and join the rollers, something I've seen a few of the "better" players do. I just try to play better and encourage teamwork among the team getting pummeled.

 

[chrisbliss18]

There's a flaw in your logic. You assume that all clan members are always on the winning team and are typically better than most of the players on the losing team. Even if the clan member is the strongest player on the server, switching teams could just mean that the other team consistently wins. That hardly fixes the problem.

I play constantly on Turbine; it's about the only server I play on right now. This map is quite prone to the steamrolling effect, but a team getting steamrolled is rarely due to a lack of ability by the losing team. The problem is a lack of organization, planning, and leadership. If someone steps up, presents a good plan to get everyone to work as a team, and gets people to follow their lead, the tides turn very quickly.

As a clan member, if you want to join the losing team and try to lead them to victory, by all means do. However, it's not your or anyone else's obligation to do so. I would rather a team consistently get steamrolled than have a clan member hop onto the losing team and start bossing everyone around. If that were to happen, people would be upset that these I'm-better-than-you clan members were telling them how to play the game.

 

[Shutter]

Also, I'm pretty sure you're not able to switch teams if it would unbalance them. That's what always happens to me when I think to switch to try to make games more competitive, to do so would mean one team would have 2+ more players than the other.

 

[GardenGroveVW]

And this is what its calld TEAM Fortress, in order to win you need to work as a team.

Chris nailed this thread right on the head.

 

[midget31394]

Yep, chris is right. I like being on the losing team myself, just because when you attack its so annoying when you die, but when in defence you get the satisfaction of destrying the other teams hopes of capping that intel one last time.

~midg

 

[Nysa]

I agree with Chris completely.
Another thing to note is that people seem to complain when eGO members are all on the same team, so all of the clan members moving to the steam-rolled side would just cause more complaining (especially if the eGO team started completely dominating the other).
Scramble is an okay solution, but it all gets fixed when the game restarts anyway. Depending on the clan members to be able to fix it like that probably isn't the best way to avoid it, though.

 

[Ancient of Ways]

There's a flaw in your logic. You assume that all clan members are always on the winning team and are typically better than most of the players on the losing team. Even if the clan member is the strongest player on the server, switching teams could just mean that the other team consistently wins. That hardly fixes the problem.

I play constantly on Turbine; it's about the only server I play on right now. This map is quite prone to the steamrolling effect, but a team getting steamrolled is rarely due to a lack of ability by the losing team. The problem is a lack of organization, planning, and leadership. If someone steps up, presents a good plan to get everyone to work as a team, and gets people to follow their lead, the tides turn very quickly.

As a clan member, if you want to join the losing team and try to lead them to victory, by all means do. However, it's not your or anyone else's obligation to do so. I would rather a team consistently get steamrolled than have a clan member hop onto the losing team and start bossing everyone around. If that were to happen, people would be upset that these I'm-better-than-you clan members were telling them how to play the game.

I have to disagree with some points. You can contribute in a positive manner, encourage teamwork. I personally am not "bossy". Mostly what I do is report sentry locations, congratulate those getting achievements and good play. Lastly, while teams getting steamrolled IS, I agree, due to either lack of teamplay or just bad class selections (no medics, too many engies, etc) I've also seen teams just get flat-out outskilled. Not necessarily by any clan members, just by a coordinated team with several 10-12K+ vets. It's not "rare", it happens occasionally. Weakest link in the chain theory does affect teamwork if you've inexperienced engies, clumsy snipers, or foolhardy Heavies.

Turbine is also MY map, my favorite that is.

We were pummeling the hell out of Red tonight, steam rollin' them to the point some raised the issue of griefing. After the 3rd or 4th utterly dominating win, I looked at the clock, and noted it was nearing 7pmCST straight up. After 15-20 mins or so of trying to switch teams, I succeeded. We continued to get mashed, I never claimed (nor do) to be one of the best players, but I offered what encouragement I could. We picked up a few more skilled players, altered our strategy, and soon racked up some wins ourselves.

 

[EricJergensen]

Chris & VW are right, but it's a bit "ivory tower" for the poor player who has been steamrolled for the last hour. It's kinda like telling a devastatingly poor, completely uneducated guy in a third world country that he needs to get an education and a job. He knows that, but he can't just do it. If the steamrolled team knew how to play as a team it would be steamrolled in the first place!

See my 2nd post in the Stacked Servers thread for a technical approach to the problem.

Policy might be better though. Could it be a "house rule" or maybe "house principle" that a losing team can ask for a couple of the more experienced guys to move to their team to help out? This would be different than Chris's bossy commando scenario in that there would be a rough consensus in letting it happen. And, there is no reason that the guys who move need to be eGO. There are plenty of skilled players on Edge servers that are good sports and would do this if the expectation was set that way.

(Obviously to actually effect the swap, an equal number of losing team players would need to go spectator briefly. I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers.)

 

[chrisbliss18]

I have to disagree with some points. You can contribute in a positive manner, encourage teamwork. I personally am not "bossy". Mostly what I do is report sentry locations, congratulate those getting achievements and good play. Lastly, while teams getting steamrolled IS, I agree, due to either lack of teamplay or just bad class selections (no medics, too many engies, etc) I've also seen teams just get flat-out outskilled. Not necessarily by any clan members, just by a coordinated team with several 10-12K+ vets. It's not "rare", it happens occasionally. Weakest link in the chain theory does affect teamwork if you've inexperienced engies, clumsy snipers, or foolhardy Heavies.

Turbine is also MY map, my favorite that is.

We were pummeling the hell out of Red tonight, steam rollin' them to the point some raised the issue of griefing. After the 3rd or 4th utterly dominating win, I looked at the clock, and noted it was nearing 7pmCST straight up. After 15-20 mins or so of trying to switch teams, I succeeded. We continued to get mashed, I never claimed (nor do) to be one of the best players, but I offered what encouragement I could. We picked up a few more skilled players, altered our strategy, and soon racked up some wins ourselves.

You're actually supporting my ideas rather than showing a different view or missed idea. Switching to another team and giving them encouragement and a good flow of information is a form of leadership. You are raising the group's hope of success, which sometimes is all that is needed to get people to refocus, reassess their personal tactics, and push the enemy back. Even if you don't cause your team to win, you can easily cause the round to last a lot longer and bring more enjoyment to your team as they fight good battles.

My point about the bossy clan member is that a situation where a clan member begrudgingly switches over to the losing team because of some "policy" and starts shouting commands to everyone in a frustrated voice isn't any fun for anyone. No one wants to lose and no clan member should ever feel obligated to always be on the losing team.

 

[J-Bizzle]

I'd just like to point out the eGO does not recruit based upon skill whatsoever. So even if there were some rule forcing clan members to switch to a losing team (and there isn't), there is no guarantee that any particular clan member will be able to affect any kind of change in a team stack/domination situation. Especially since we like people to be able to play the classes however they like (within reason, obviously, as we don't allow griefing) and we don't ever do anything more than suggest that our team might need more of one class or another, there is a very fine line we tread when we do switch over to a losing team and try to help out.

I realize now that I've essentially just restated what chrisbliss is saying, but he's hit it right on the head. The one thing I do expect of eGO members in a vote scramble situation is that they will vote yes... especially if they are on the dominating team.