What scripts do you all use?

[s3rv0]

And I'm sure someone using that script on our servers would be warned and kicked for exploiting. I couldn't use that kind of script, so I will concede that that would be unfair...but also I've never seen it used on our servers (not saying that it isn't, just that it's not really common), so I think we deal with a different class of player than that.

Even so, you still can't call it cheating, not by a long shot. That's just taking advantage of game mechanics: Valve put in a weapon that's true semi-automatic, no cool down. Their mistake, if you ask me. They also put in the ability to use scripts. Put them both together, ta-da! I know you didn't call it cheating, but others have.

Ah crap, I'm getting sucked back in again! Someone close the thread! No more replies please! >_<

 

[FreakingHell]

I'm pretty sure the only script we don't allow is the crouch jump script(the one that isn't allowed in CAL). Could be wrong though...

 

[Captain Calle]

Even so, you still can't call it cheating, not by a long shot. That's just taking advantage of game mechanics: Valve put in a weapon that's true semi-automatic, no cool down. Their mistake, if you ask me. They also put in the ability to use scripts. Put them both together, ta-da!

Here's an example for you:
Let's say Valve released a new map and it has some serious flaw. It lets you go underneath the map. Is it fine to use to you because it's just a mistake Valve made? Saying that exploiting is not cheating is just wrong. Some scripts are cheating, just as exploits. Exploiting a map or exploiting scripts, there's no difference. You cannot deny that.

I know you didn't call it cheating, but others have.

I'm sorry for not being clear enough. I am calling it cheating. It just depends on what the script does.

P.S: I don't think the thread needs to be closed, I think this is a nice discussion, exactly what a forum is there for.


-Calle

 

[s3rv0]

But the thread I started has now been threadjacked. D= But okay, we can continue if you want.

You're saying that this is an accident, like Valve didn't intend for this. Maybe they didn't have this in mind when they put in scripts, but they certainly know it's happening. They are going to make (or have made) the final call on if it's okay or not, everyone else just has an opinion on it. Then why, years after HL2 has been released, hasn't it been fixed? It could be very easily. If they didn't want it to be this way, it'd be fixed by now I imagine.

Comparing it to a map exploit is entirely inappropriate. One is taking advantage of intentional game mechanics that Valve put in, another is taking advantage of an unintentional bug that Valve would almost certainly remove.

 

[Captain Calle]

You're saying that this is an accident, like Valve didn't intend for this.

There is no way they intended people to script like that. They changed the possibilities scripts offer for a reason. Source has a lot less ways to give you an advantage than gold source. As I said, there is just no way Valve wants people to use a pistol like that. Maybe they just don't know how to fix it or, you know, have other things to work with. They're busy folks.

Then why, years after HL2 has been released, hasn't it been fixed? It could be very easily. If they didn't want it to be this way, it'd be fixed by now I imagine.

While HL? has been out for a long time, TF's release date was in 2007. Things are different in each game. Sure, they still haven't fixed it but neither did they fix the pyro burning people underwater glitch. Either they don't know how to fix it, or have "better" things to do.

Comparing it to a map exploit is entirely inappropriate. One is taking advantage of intentional game mechanics that Valve put in, another is taking advantage of an unintentional bug that Valve would almost certainly remove.

I don't think it's inappropriate to compare it to a map bug, seeing as you exploit both. Scripting may be intentional, but exploiting this, is not. Neither is roasting people in water. This glitch may be unintended, but so was bunny-hopping when it was still in TF2. They removed that, since it was a gigantic problem. Map bugs were removed quickly because they're big problems. Scripts that maybe 1/50 persons uses is not on top of their "TO DO" list. They're not fixing some things because the majority doesn't know about it yet. They'll surely change things when enough people complain.
Again, I'm not speaking of scripting as a whole but of nasty scripts that are cheats / give you an unfair advantage


-Calle

 

[Candlejack]

"Doing a perfect rocketjump all the time is kind of pushing it..."

There's no reason to do a perfect rocket jump all the time. I'm sure most people who use it can do normal rocket jumps, but if you do ever need it(or even just want it for fun), it's there.

 

[s3rv0]

Well, in the interest of saving everyone some time then, I guess we should just agree to disagree. I think scripting is using game mechanics that Valve made, you think it's a way to exploit, it's probably both and neither at the same time. I don't think either side here is going to miraculously agree with the other, so let's just stop, else this will go on forever.

 

[Jack Burton]

I'm pretty sure the only script we don't allow is the crouch jump script(the one that isn't allowed in CAL). Could be wrong though...

Isn't that the exploit that Valve fixed or attempted to fix with a recent patch? There's a limit on the number of crouches a person can do in a certain amount of time now, if I remember correctly.

 

[Captain Calle]

Well, in the interest of saving everyone some time then, I guess we should just agree to disagree. I think scripting is using game mechanics that Valve made, you think it's a way to exploit, it's probably both and neither at the same time. I don't think either side here is going to miraculously agree with the other, so let's just stop, else this will go on forever.

I don't think I'm getting my message across. I have nothing against scripts unless you use certain scripts/exploits that somehow give you a very unfair adventage. Use whatever scripts you want I'll just kill you until your dead and dominated!
Anyway, I'll just end it here. It was fun to discuss this topic, though.


-Calle

 

[Ma$termind]

I was discussing this very script with [BORN]2kill in server just last night... It's certainly iffy what an official ruling may be. The script is, in fact, very popular in our servers; I've noticed quite a few people using it regularly.

In my opinion, while it may provide an unfair advantage, if Valve wished to fix it, it would have been fixed ages ago. Also, while I would definitely hate to run across this stuff in a competition, or CAL-type setting, that is not the atmosphere we try to hold. Our servers are not competitive in nature; they aren't structured events for real-life prizes.

As such, I just can't justify calling people out for using them (admining), especially considering we have no true way of differentiating between a "real" rocket jump, or a scripted one. Even the auto-pistol script, while it makes it easier to accomplish, doesn't perform a task not possible otherwise ? if you click fast enough, you can still (pretty easily) achieve the same speed without it.

This makes the situation rather grey... and since it's not a controlled situation, such as CAL, in my humble opinion, it steps into the arena of over-admining. Unless they say outright they use such a script, it's impossible to say for sure whether or not they actually use one. Therefore, while it may be unsportsmanlike to do so, I believe using these scripts should be perfectly legal in our servers.

Of course, I would be willing to accept any official decision Leadership makes on this issue. It's certainly worth considering.

 

[s3rv0]

I was discussing this very script with [BORN]2kill in server just last night... It's certainly iffy what an official ruling may be. The script is, in fact, very popular in our servers; I've noticed quite a few people using it regularly.

In my opinion, while it may provide an unfair advantage, if Valve wished to fix it, it would have been fixed ages ago. Also, while I would definitely hate to run across this stuff in a competition, or CAL-type setting, that is not the atmosphere we try to hold. Our servers are not competitive in nature; they aren't structured events for real-life prizes.

As such, I just can't justify calling people out for using them (admining), especially considering we have no true way of differentiating between a "real" rocket jump, or a scripted one. Even the auto-pistol script, while it makes it easier to accomplish, doesn't perform a task not possible otherwise ? if you click fast enough, you can still (pretty easily) achieve the same speed without it.

This makes the situation rather grey... and since it's not a controlled situation, such as CAL, in my humble opinion, it steps into the arena of over-admining. Unless they say outright they use such a script, it's impossible to say for sure whether or not they actually use one. Therefore, while it may be unsportsmanlike to do so, I believe using these scripts should be perfectly legal in our servers.

Of course, I would be willing to accept any official decision Leadership makes on this issue. It's certainly worth considering.

Very well said.

 

[FreakingHell]

Isn't that the exploit that Valve fixed or attempted to fix with a recent patch? There's a limit on the number of crouches a person can do in a certain amount of time now, if I remember correctly.

Yep. Problem has been solved, so i guess any script is allowed now...

And I wouldn't use a rocket jump script because I rocket jump differently depending on whether I want height, distance, both, or just a little height.

 

[midget31394]

Correct me if I'm wrong, midget, but we're all just hitting buttons to do things. Why are you assuming that because someone uses scripts that means they can't do manually what the script is helping them with? And why assume that superiority that because you don't use them, you are somehow a better player? No offense, but it's kind of an arrogant attitude.

By calling scripters lazy and less skilled than those who don't use scripts, you're really insulting a significant portion of our membership and pub users.

If an admin is around, it'd be great if you could close this thread. It's obviously migrated far from its original intent, and I doubt anything constructive will come from this current discussion. Thanks!

At no point did I say the were unskilled, or say that I am better, or say they can't do anything. There are malicious scripts out there. Yes auto disguises and stuff blah de blah, I'm not saying they are wrong but I'm saying I dont like them. isn't everyone entitled to their opinion without being called arrogant? Also if you notice I put lazy in brackets and with a question mark because I couldn't think of another word. I hope this comes across as polite as I am trying to make it I just don't like being called arrogant for my own opinions.

~M

EDIT: I won't be posting here after this, if someone wants to talk to me about it PM me because I know I will end up getting annoyed and that's something I dont wanna happen.

 

[Vainiac]

Fight the enemy, not the keyboard control scheme.

these are games of skill, learning the control scheme/button combinations/etc is part of gaining the skill of playing well in the game. its the equivalent of one person learning how to make a difficult jump in a game and a second person using a game genie so he can make that difficult jump first time every time. play the game as its meant to be played. if valve wanted you to 1 button rocket jump or auto-reload then they prolly would have included that in the game initially.

 

[FreakingHell]

If Valve didn't want you to one button rocket jump, don't you think they would have made scripts not work for more than one move per button press? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if we figured out that we could do that, Valve has figured it out and would have fixed it if they wanted to. Personally I don't use them, but I don't have a problem with anybody using them.

 

[? Frisky Dingo ?]

I don't think I'm getting my message across. I have nothing against scripts unless you use certain scripts/exploits that somehow give you a very unfair adventage. Use whatever scripts you want I'll just kill you until your dead and dominated!
Anyway, I'll just end it here. It was fun to discuss this topic, though.


-Calle

my point exactly, while I used to use scripts to get my experience with spy class i can now play well enough and not have to use them. I have nothing against anyone who uses them and am against any of those people who use scripts to exploit map flaws as well as cheats...im pretty sure there are scripts out there that give a 3rd person view just like the cheat or aim bot type cheats im very much against.