Tech Forums Etiquette or some of us can't and do not want to build our own computers

[Boyle]

I would like to start this thread off by saying that I still really enjoy reading the Tech Talk and Tech Help sections of the eGO forums. I am an avid gamer in my 50's that can talk games with any of my students with as much passion and expertise as anyone. I have been playing platform and computer games since pong was invented and I even played the original MIT program of Dungeons and Dragons on a computer bigger than a kitchen refrigerator.

What I know very little about is building, overclocking, and troubleshooting my computer. I have learned some very valuable information by reading the comments in these two very entertaining sections of the eGo forums and that is also why I let Dell build my first two gaming computers and Digital Storm my newest one, instead of myself. So many times I see comments such as "How can you go with Dell, Alienware (a part of Dell), or HP? They are so much more expensive than building your own, and their customer service is terrible." Well I will tell you why, because for a lot of older adults, myself included, these companies have built me great computers, helped me to maintain them, given me excellent warranties, and great tech support. I can not do any of these things on my own, and I am sure there are other members of eGO who are just as lost as I am. I do not have access to computer geeks or family members who grew up with computers since lower school, so I must use the internet and companies like Digital Storm to keep me up and running.

I researched my newest computer for six months before I pulled the trigger. The eGO Tech forums gave me some help but frankly if I had followed the advice of most comments made in these threads I would still not have a new computer because of all the contradiction and the fruit issue. I could not post a question about building my new computer, because some people like oranges and some people like apples. It seems to me that the Tech threads many times start with an important question, but end up arguing apples and oranges most of the time. Well I tell you I love my new machine and it is a regular fruit basket. I told Digital Storm exactly what I wanted in my gaming computer and with their expertise they helped me build my system. Last November my eGO tech experts could not tell me how to build a great system around the Intel i7 965 and the nvidia 295, nor could they tell me the idling temps, max temps, normal temps or to liquid cool instead of air cool, etc., because these components were too new! My eGO brothers and sisters would be honest and tell me that in their opinion apples are much better than oranges, I mean AMD is much better than Intel...

I know everyone means well, but when someone ask, for example, if you like a product and why, then tell the person yes and tell them why. Those of you who like the other product go find your own thread. In other words if you have true experience with a tech question and can give real life pros and cons great, but if you have no real hands on information to help someone, please keep it to yourself if it is not truly helpful. For those of you that keep saying that everyone can build their own computer stop, and remember for most of us over the age of forty that is more trouble than it is worth. We have to support our families first and keeping up with computers is very time consuming. What I am saying is think before you answer a thread and give some helpful information without the inflammatory content. I will even list my overpriced system, but my machine kicks butt with tremendous overclocking features that will keep it around for a long time. I have a full three year warranty and lifetime help that gives me peace of mind, so thanks Digital Storm.

Model: Digital Storm
Case: Silverstone Raven
Processor: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 965 3.2GHz (overclocked to 3.81)
Power Supply: 1000W Corsair HX
CPU cooler: H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite
Mobo: ASUS Rampage II Extreme
Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Corsair Dominator DHX
Hard Drive: 2x 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA) in Set 1 in a Raid 0 Stripe
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 1.792GB
Optical Drive 1: DVD?R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x) (LightScribe Edition)
Monitor: HP W2408h - 24"
Sound Card: Asus Supreme FX
Headset: Sennheiser PC151
Speakers: none
Keyboard: Razer Lycosa
Mouse: Logitech G9
Operating System: Dual boot Windows XP/ Windows Vista 64 Home Premium
3dmark score: 21833

 

[Sharpe]

I do see your point. I could care less if I choose AMD, Intel, Nvidia, ATI, Or any others. If it performs well to the other one Im comparing it to, Im getting it. If it outperforms the games I want to play, Then I'll buy it.

It can get quite annoying when people choose one over another. The name doesn't matter. The performance does. If it runs fast, Go with it. Don't go with a slower one because of the name.

On a side note, That's a KILLER computer you have. Wish I had that kind of money.

 

[HaZal2d0uS]

I understand this completely!

The only reason I bought parts and "built" my computer rig was because I had someone that practically did it... and I watched. I still don't really have a good clue. Some people post such things as "It's so simple! The instructions just tell you step by step ... you can't go wrong" ... well I must say, I don't believe that at all after seeing mine. I tried to figure it out on my own before my friend came over... Not exactly so straight forward as people say!

I don't try to seem like an expert. As I know I'm not. But I agree with this completely, that people should post FACTS in the Tech Forums more than opinions. Opinions are nice when ASKED for, but other than that... unneeded.

Nice rig!

 

[!Woodstock!]

I know exactly where you are coming from. If I went to a sewing forum I would be completely confused and lost.

I'm an avid DIY and experienced pc builder. I've built many computers for myself and others. Would I recommend building your own comp? Yes. But if you are not comfortable with doing that, or you don't know a geek, then do what you are comfortable with and buy one from a company. All the big companies (Velocity Micro, iBuyPower, AlienWear, DigitalStorm, Dell, ...) have great products. *gets off soapbox*

I have the Lycosa and it is a great keyboard. Enjoy!

 

[WaterSnake]

My dad taught me how to build a computer, that's how I learned. I bet most of the younger members in eGO learn that way too (mom or dad or uncle or whatever).

If your dad taught you how, then he'd be a time-traveler and that'd be cool, but not really within the realm of possibility. I can see where you're coming from completely, and I'm glad that you have a better computer than I do*




*Not jealous at all.

 

[Tasolth]

How I learned to Build PC's...... Breaking them.... Repeatedly :facewall:


Seriously. I broke my parents PC several times in my "learning" Several hundreds of dollars later, and a few trips to the local repair guy, I learned the basics of computer assembly and repair. You could say I learned from that guy, but that's not entirely true.

 

[featherfoot07]

I learned how to do ALL of what I now know of computers from Xenophek. He's the tech guy of our little group and a very smart guy. I'm a hands on learner so I learn fast and understand it - just making sure I get it right the first time he's always the first guy I call.

 

[Crasher]

Nice post Boyle. I read alot in this section, but like you, I have no 'build by myself' skills and sometimes like you said, thread become more of a This one is better than this one because I like it. Really confusing when you wanna make a good choice. This thread should be sticky!

 

[EyelessHunter]

I agree with some points but you are over simplifying. Most questions or problems posed on this forum require answer that are opinions. For instance, you mentioned liquid cooling vs. air cooling. Neither is objectively better than the other. They both have pros and cons. Nearly all tech questions require opinion answers.

 

[FreakingHell]

There is nothing wrong with telling someone they should build it themselves to save money unless they specifically say they do not want to build it.

Also, saying "Dell sucks," etc, is not okay. However, saying, "Did you know that you could save a lot of money by building yourself?" is.

 

[Boyle]

Thanks for the great comments

I agree with some points but you are over simplifying. Most questions or problems posed on this forum require answer that are opinions. For instance, you mentioned liquid cooling vs. air cooling. Neither is objectively better than the other. They both have pros and cons. Nearly all tech questions require opinion answers.

Yes EyelessHunter you are correct. I reworded my last paragraph on my original post to reflect what I should have said. What I meant to say is we should think before answering a thread and give more helpful information with less inflammatory content. Enough ATI sucks, Nvidia sucks, AMD sucks, Intel sucks, Alienware sucks, Dell sucks, HP sucks, etc. These companies and products are making billions of dollars and millions upon millions of happy customers, so they must be doing something right. What sucks is trying to make hardware and software work equally as well in the tens of thousands of different pc configurations that are out there.

As an example my wife and I have purchased over $12,000 worth of Dell computers for work and fun. We researched every major computer company before buying. In ten years one hard drive burned out and Dell replaced that for free even though the warranty had expired. They have always given us the help we needed and their products have worked almost flawlessly for us. I can almost bet money that everyday in our Tech forums that I will find a Dell basher on a thread and more times than not they do not even own or have never owned a Dell computer. I think our forums should more resemble the reviews found on newegg's website. Even though I may not agree with all of the comments, I get the sense that most people speak from experience and with a minimum of product bashing.

Thank you everyone for your comments and for your personal experiences!

 

[Two Listen]

I know what you mean. Very often it seems do people ask about pre-built systems, and the only advice they get in-turn is "Build your own instead."

The simple fact of the matter is that there exist people who don't know how to build their own system, and don't feel like giving themselves a headache trying to learn. Most of these people also have jobs, and have the money to shell out an extra few hundred bucks here and there - older folks.

I built my first system recently, just tought myself based on reading some things on the Internet. I'd upgraded my old system before so I had a good idea of what I was getting into, and it went great. But at the same time, if I'd had the money, I wouldn't have minded just having it built for me.

PCs are great BECAUSE there are so many different ways to go with them. We shouldn't discourage people from utilizing whatever ways they want in order to achieve that ultimate goal of having a great system.

 

[Omniblast]

I like to build my own rig, because I like to see what's inside them.
For me the only difficulty that I would have with the PC would most likely be in the Bios, understanding which voltages go with what settings and which ones I can fiddle with before breaking it.

The good point about having a company build your pc would be that you get their "tech" support with your system. I recommend this type especially for individuals who are not so tech savvy or do not have the expertise with that.

Currently my rig took a dump, I changed out the old Core 2 Duo cpu E6850 with a Core 2 Quad Q9550 to test out and eventually use. I ran Prime95 over night and all my temps were below 60c. For some odd reason, it crashed one day and I couldn't boot up. (would hang on windows xp logo)

Anyways, now I'm without a pc to use (I'm on a work laptop now), in process of having my MB RMAed because it wouldn't detect the 4 cores and only 2 cores, but I have to turn off the 2nd core in order to boot into windows.

If I had a company back me up and fix issues that I would not know how to address, I suppose I would be in better shape. However I'm fairly certain that if you open up the case to make any modifications you would be voiding your warranty... is that right? I forgot, maybe policies have changed. *shrug*

Anyways, your new rig looks like a monster. I hope it brings you many years of joy to come. 21k 3dmark06 is pretty good. I only managed a measily 17k overclocked on 3.01 ghz.

I have a itchin' to build a i7 920 with a EVGA x58 classified, TRUE heat sink for push-pull, 6 gb Dominator DDR3-1600. I can keep everything else from my old rig the same and just drag those over to this one. (I have two GTX 280).

 

[Boyle]

Warranty

If I had a company back me up and fix issues that I would not know how to address, I suppose I would be in better shape. However I'm fairly certain that if you open up the case to make any modifications you would be voiding your warranty... is that right? I forgot, maybe policies have changed. *shrug*

Hey Omniblast,
Digital Storm states in my warranty that I can open my computer and add my own upgrades. It also says that they are not responsible for damages caused by nature or myself. I try to do simple things and I get into trouble sometimes. I have been helped several times on the phone with problems that I caused and they were easily solved by DS employees. They make me feel like they will bend over backwards to help their customers. I feel as long as I do not monopolize their time that they will help me with anything I need.

I researched more than twelve computer builders before buying from Digital Storm. I would have used an eGO sponsor, but they could not give me exactly what I wanted. Most would not give me a dual boot for instance.

 

[DragonD]

Part of what you say, I agree with (as did others).

I know very little about working on cars. I don't even want to learn. If something needs to be done, I just take it to a shop. I have the money to do it, so why not let somebody else deal with it...same idea applies here.

Now, i will say your wrong about the "older" gen not learning about computers.

Two months ago, I did my first full build; wiring and everything... I'm in my 40's.

 

[Death]

oh man that is an extremely nice computer, with that build you could run any game on the market out there at the highest settings no prob......*drool

 

[s14sh3r]

Part of what you say, I agree with (as did others).

I know very little about working on cars. I don't even want to learn. If something needs to be done, I just take it to a shop. I have the money to do it, so why not let somebody else deal with it...same idea applies here.

Now, i will say your wrong about the "older" gen not learning about computers.

Two months ago, I did my first full build; wiring and everything... I'm in my 40's.

I'm 43 and the teenagers around here know I'm the one to come to for help

It's easy for some of us enthusiasts to forget where we came from. We all started out knowing nothing and learned as we went along. It's also easy for some of us to forget that most computer users don't think like we do. 99% of the computer users out there don't want to know how a computer works or how to fix it, they just want it to work when they turn it on.

Dell, HP, Alienware, and others make computers for the 99%. I've owned most of them and they were fine. I got interested in overclocking, tweaking and customizing, so naturally I started building my own.

I try to never look down on anyone who just wants a simple computer. If they're not interested in really learning how one works, they probably should get an OEM. In fact, I've had people ask me how much it would cost to build them a computer and after talking to them about what they planned on doing with it, I suggested getting a Dell or HP.

Ok, sorry for the rambling. I just hate it when some of my fellow geeks have the attitude that "OMG your a noob because you don't build your own rig and have a sucky (insert OEM brand here).

 

[blizbiggy]

I do see your point. I could care less if I choose AMD, Intel, Nvidia, ATI, Or any others. If it performs well to the other one Im comparing it to, Im getting it. If it outperforms the games I want to play, Then I'll buy it.

It can get quite annoying when people choose one over another. The name doesn't matter. The performance does. If it runs fast, Go with it. Don't go with a slower one because of the name.

On a side note, That's a KILLER computer you have. Wish I had that kind of money.

+1 I choose whoever happens to be better at the time. I dont choose one side over the other just because I like 1 side more than another.

 

[Boyle]

Did I say that? No, I did not say that.

For those of you that keep saying that everyone can build their own computer stop, and remember for most of us over the age of forty that is more trouble than it is worth.

Hey DragonD,

Thanks for your comment. I made a generalization that I still stand by that for the majority of people over the age of 40, that for every one adult that can and will build a computer, the largest number of adults will not, for various reasons. For instance I love computers for games and most older adults I know could care less about computer gaming. It is the younger gamers that build more computers themselves, because they just have to plug in that new video card or 6 more gigs of ram to take care of the newest game because someday they may have 20 gigs of info to download for Crysis 13 and then overclock the heck out of everything. Most adults do not need to tear into their computer because the things they do at home are typical and do not require a super fast computer. I have put in two video card upgrades, a new hardrive, extra ram, the easy stuff. Also I have put in my own sound card including a front bay with hookups for midi, coaxial s/spdif, optical s/pdif, regular RCA connectors, etc., so that I can plug in my synthesizers, sequencer, drum machine, and stereo with a turntable, among other things. (I have over three thousand records. I am converting those records that I really like to high grade wav files, since many haven't been reissued on cd).

Quote DragonD:
"Now, i will say your wrong about the "older" gen not learning about computers". End Quote

I know adults our age will learn whatever it takes to get the most from computers for business as well as pleasure. As you can see in my quote at the top of this post, I did not say that the older generation is not learning about computers. I said most of us probably will not build our own computer, even though someday I just might. We are all learning about computers, because of the software issue alone. I am ready for my newest music manuscript program from Sibelius. I have Sibelius 4 and I will upgrade to 6 in a month. I have had Sibelius for 10 years and it is ever evolving as is all software. I can write music for publication, post my songs on the internet for sale via Scorch, put music to video or motion pictures, or write musical exercises for my students as a teaching tool, among other things. I wish I could find a friend such as you DragonD, build a monster computer, and learn how to maintain it, but I work seven days a week during school. I teach music from 7:20 am until 4:15 pm at a private middle school. Then I usually have at least one private music lesson to teach at the students home every week day until around seven. I teach two or three lessons on Saturdays and one or two on Sundays. Oh, and I get paid to play professional gigs all through the season including church every Sunday morning. I will even be on PBS this fall performing in a Christmas pageant shown all over the world. Alas, I am too busy to build and maintain my own computer, but a lot of people are like me with their work.

 

[DragonD]

I wish I could find a friend such as you DragonD, build a monster computer, and learn how to maintain it, (

Everybody wishes they had a friend like me

I started out the same way, putting in new memory, changing out hard drives, ect. 3 years ago, I built a new rig. I was to scared to do the full thing, so I got "bare bones" rig; case, powersupply, mb, and cpu already "installed". It was easy to add the rest of the stuff.

When I built my new rig 2 months ago, I almost did the same thing, but decided what the heck, lets try it, and did the full build myself. Trust me, I read the instructions (for wiring) very carefully and it took me all evening..but I did it.