The sad future of the gaming "industry"...

[Yarr Im a Pirate]

I was going to stop by Game Stop and throw a quick $5 dollars down on Champions Online, just to get into the beta today and see how it is. Granted my expectations are low, and would end up just putting that $5 towards MW2 or SW: The old Republic any way... but I wanted to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt, as I had heard drastic improvements over City of Heroes.

But now my minds torn. I was set, getting ready to jump into beta, but as I was reading over the forums for CO I read (near close to 500 pages) of complaints of the fact they are not only going to be a subscription based game... but that of micro transactions.

Now alot of the arguments for the MT's seem to be on the side of "it's the future" and "look at xbox live". Part of me cant help but take a step back and think... what has become of the gaming industy. Franchises like CoD and Halo nickel and dimming you for every precious map that gets released because you thirst for more action... lest we forget that Counter-strike,Team-fortress classic and Day of Defeat, started as a FREE mods...

If it went for the player base constantly spending their free time mapping, scripting and coding creating better ways to play games that...well.. for lack of a better term suck... we would not have games that we enjoy playing today.

And tell me what's the difference between Micro transactions and gold farming... where is the moral grey area. If I purchase game gold for an item on the AH that is game changing, yet it can still be earned in a dungeon (these are cryptic's words BTW)... tell me it's not the same thing, just with cooperate approval this time... and on a Similar note when I was downloading a map pack through live one time, I happen to go though every add on in live... there was a game (name escapes me at present) that had, for sale mind you, in game currency, +5 levels etc... only assuming its an rpg...

Forget easy mode and demo mode in our games... our games will play themselves... for the right price.

 

[king killer]

Franchises like CoD and Halo nickel and dimming you for every precious map that gets released because you thirst for more action...

They need to make money on the maps some how because they work hard to make the maps its only 800 Microsoft points its not bad

 

[Rice_Eater]

Yeah, It's only like 10-20 bucks... I guess that's pretty bad...

It's worth it for COD5 though cause everyone wants more zombie maps. I don't mind.

 

[Yarr Im a Pirate]

They need to make money on the maps some how because they work hard to make the maps its only 800 Microsoft points its not bad

Well that's my point. I know they work hard to make maps. So did the 1 person and the 3 people who developed CS and TFC... I dunno I'm not trying to sound like a gaming hippie here, but I've always been more of a fan of user generated content.

I've been designing maps since duke nukem 3d (actually working on a css jail map right now) and have asked for nothing in return but feedback on how to make it better.

 

[Silenthunter]

Well that's my point. I know they work hard to make maps. So did the 1 person and the 3 people who developed CS and TFC... I dunno I'm not trying to sound like a gaming hippie here, but I've always been more of a fan of user generated content.

I've been designing maps since duke nukem 3d (actually working on a css jail map right now) and have asked for nothing in return but feedback on how to make it better.

I'm probably not saying this right, but CS and TFC were just mods to Half-Life. Valve never intended to make them into stand alone games. Halo and COD were games that were made to make a profit. Just like Half-Life. Then the only way to make money after you sell the game, to keep the funds up for producing another is to sell downloadable content. Also the people who makes the DLC, is their job and they need to sell in order for the company to pay them their salary. As was said before, the DLC is generally cheap and it usually pretty nice. Like in Oblivion the Shivering Isles, it was 15-20 something like that, and its half of the normal game in length. There is some DLC that i would never buy but, there is a lot of really good DLC out there.

 

[Jarrod_38]

Welcome to the world of economics. This is how gaming has been since gaming started. Just be thankful that we are no longer in the age of freeware, and shareware for gaming.

 

[eje007]

That's why any MMO is going to suck, at least in my eyes. I will never play a subscription based game because I hate the idea that I'm renting the character. But I won't go into that. As far as worrying about everything trying to sap money out of you here's my view on it.

So far, only Microsoft's Xbox360 and the other gaming consoles are really guilty of charging you for more content. The PC versions of L4D, CoD4 and 5, and other games, don't charge you for any updates. Now sure a few PC titles do, but they're largely the crappy titles that no one plays anyway.

The answer to your problem? Valve is going to continue free support for many of their games. The only reason you get charged for some of them is because they go through Microsoft. So what should you do? Stay away from console gaming. I'm already set because I hate consoles for serious gaming, and I only have a Wii for the original NES and SNES titles and LoZ. If the console gaming industry is gonna try and pull this crap then screw them.

As far as MMOs go, I don't know what to tell you. Since WoW Pay to Play has become a justifiable way to play a game and personally, I will never go for it, but plenty of people do to keep it alive. If you're all about the MMOs then you might just have to bite the bullet and pay the system.

But stick with Valve and PCs because all the good games give you free updated support.

 

[Ruthless]

That's why any MMO is going to suck, at least in my eyes. I will never play a subscription based game because I hate the idea that I'm renting the character. But I won't go into that. As far as worrying about everything trying to sap money out of you here's my view on it.

So far, only Microsoft's Xbox360 and the other gaming consoles are really guilty of charging you for more content. The PC versions of L4D, CoD4 and 5, and other games, don't charge you for any updates. Now sure a few PC titles do, but they're largely the crappy titles that no one plays anyway.

The answer to your problem? Valve is going to continue free support for many of their games. The only reason you get charged for some of them is because they go through Microsoft. So what should you do? Stay away from console gaming. I'm already set because I hate consoles for serious gaming, and I only have a Wii for the original NES and SNES titles and LoZ. If the console gaming industry is gonna try and pull this crap then screw them.

As far as MMOs go, I don't know what to tell you. Since WoW Pay to Play has become a justifiable way to play a game and personally, I will never go for it, but plenty of people do to keep it alive. If you're all about the MMOs then you might just have to bite the bullet and pay the system.

But stick with Valve and PCs because all the good games give you free updated support.

Pretty much everything he said is exactly how i want to word it.
Valve also has free mods and some of them are pretty damn good.
WHO DOESN'T LIKE FREE GAMES?

 

[Lance]

That's why any MMO is going to suck, at least in my eyes. I will never play a subscription based game because I hate the idea that I'm renting the character. But I won't go into that. As far as worrying about everything trying to sap money out of you here's my view on it.

So far, only Microsoft's Xbox360 and the other gaming consoles are really guilty of charging you for more content. The PC versions of L4D, CoD4 and 5, and other games, don't charge you for any updates. Now sure a few PC titles do, but they're largely the crappy titles that no one plays anyway.

The answer to your problem? Valve is going to continue free support for many of their games. The only reason you get charged for some of them is because they go through Microsoft. So what should you do? Stay away from console gaming. I'm already set because I hate consoles for serious gaming, and I only have a Wii for the original NES and SNES titles and LoZ. If the console gaming industry is gonna try and pull this crap then screw them.

As far as MMOs go, I don't know what to tell you. Since WoW Pay to Play has become a justifiable way to play a game and personally, I will never go for it, but plenty of people do to keep it alive. If you're all about the MMOs then you might just have to bite the bullet and pay the system.

But stick with Valve and PCs because all the good games give you free updated support.

Indeed. If you don't want to keep having to pay for things, don't give them the idea that you're willing to pay.

And I don't exactly think employees of game companies would starve if they had to make map packs and things for free; people still have to pay for the game itself, and offering added content later on shows potential buyers that their product isn't going to be outdated anytime soon. And under absolutely no circumstances should any company charge for bug fixes.

That being said, I'm hoping this will only be a "fad" thing. As with larger economics (and really anything else), sometimes people need to be ripped off to realize what they've always had... and once the "thieves" (speaking metaphorically, the game companies aren't THAT bad ) realize that the victims are protecting their assets, they realize that they have to do something better.

Well, that was a lot longer than it needed to be, but it gets my point across.

 

[Poldena2]

Now sure a few PC titles do, but they're largely the crappy titles that no one plays anyway.

Fallout 3? Oblivion? Good games with good DLC, that cost money.

On topic: Agreed with everything. I played MMO's for awhile because my friends played with me, and that made it fun. But the people who make the games make so many rules and mess up so many things (example: Runescape) that they just aren't any fun.

 

[LTCHIPS]

I don't really think that we should have to pay for DLC. We paid money for the game itself, and that should be enough. Us PC users get things for free while console gamers can get the same stuff PC gamers do, but they have to pay for it. I feel sorry for console gamers who have to pay for these things in order to play with their friends, or to even get a good online experience, while us PC gamers can just go download it for free. i think Microsoft and Sony are a bunch of cheap bastards.

 

[Jake_25]

That's why any MMO is going to suck, at least in my eyes. I will never play a subscription based game because I hate the idea that I'm renting the character. But I won't go into that. As far as worrying about everything trying to sap money out of you here's my view on it.

So far, only Microsoft's Xbox360 and the other gaming consoles are really guilty of charging you for more content. The PC versions of L4D, CoD4 and 5, and other games, don't charge you for any updates. Now sure a few PC titles do, but they're largely the crappy titles that no one plays anyway.

The answer to your problem? Valve is going to continue free support for many of their games. The only reason you get charged for some of them is because they go through Microsoft. So what should you do? Stay away from console gaming. I'm already set because I hate consoles for serious gaming, and I only have a Wii for the original NES and SNES titles and LoZ. If the console gaming industry is gonna try and pull this crap then screw them.

As far as MMOs go, I don't know what to tell you. Since WoW Pay to Play has become a justifiable way to play a game and personally, I will never go for it, but plenty of people do to keep it alive. If you're all about the MMOs then you might just have to bite the bullet and pay the system.

But stick with Valve and PCs because all the good games give you free updated support.

you have some really good points there eje, but heres my two cents since the gaming industrie is getting better and advancing in technology. with a pc you have to keep upgrading to get the new games ,and same with console(by getting new consoles) but at least consoles generally last like 3 or 4 years. I have to keep constantly keep upgrading my computer, and i cant afford it but if you have enough money to start out big sure go for it. but when you buy a console you can expect to have all the requirements when you buy a new game.

 

[EyelessHunter]

Here is the REAL problem with charging for extra maps and downloadable content........

Now when devs are wrapping up production on a new title, if there is any content that might not fit the scheduled release date, instead of putting in alot of time to complete the game into its entirety they just say, what the hell lets just leave it out of the game and badge it as DLC and get more money.

Developers are now releasing downloadable content within 1-2 months after a games release. Which means they have been working on it before the game shipped. That means IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL GAME!

 

[Poldena2]

here is the real problem with charging for extra maps and downloadable content........

Now when devs are wrapping up production on a new title, if there is any content that might not fit the scheduled release date, instead of putting in alot of time to complete the game into its entirety they just say, what the hell lets just leave it out of the game and badge it as dlc and get more money.

Developers are now releasing downloadable content within 1-2 months after a games release. Which means they have been working on it before the game shipped. That means it should have been included in the original game!

qft

 

[iOprah]

Kinda of off topic, but I hate the MS point system. I always have a 100-300 points extra after I buy something because I can never buy the amount of points i need.

 

[PATRICKCHEWING]

if theres a way to make money off of something its going to be done. Put yourself in their shoes and think of the money pit charging monthly generates.

 

[WaterSnake]

Counter-Point : What about people that want to play mmo's but don't have the time to sit through a 6 hour raid for the armor? What about the people with jobs and a life? MT gives people the chance to play games without having to do that all the time, and still get the fullest out of the game, without having to invest the mind blowing amount of time required to get those items for free.

Plus: The DLC for CoD is not required to play it and get a full experience. Its just for players looking for more content. However, I do have a thing to say about Halo. It's DLC is out of hand, there are only 6 game mods you can play without having to buy the DLC. That's like only half of the multilplayer experience. It's insane...

And don't you dare say anything about TF2 not being free. For all the free content plus custom maps we get from valve and the community, the game is almost worth more than $20.

 

[iOprah]

That's why any MMO is going to suck, at least in my eyes. I will never play a subscription based game because I hate the idea that I'm renting the character. But I won't go into that. As far as worrying about everything trying to sap money out of you here's my view on it.

So far, only Microsoft's Xbox360 and the other gaming consoles are really guilty of charging you for more content. The PC versions of L4D, CoD4 and 5, and other games, don't charge you for any updates. Now sure a few PC titles do, but they're largely the crappy titles that no one plays anyway.

The answer to your problem? Valve is going to continue free support for many of their games. The only reason you get charged for some of them is because they go through Microsoft. So what should you do? Stay away from console gaming. I'm already set because I hate consoles for serious gaming, and I only have a Wii for the original NES and SNES titles and LoZ. If the console gaming industry is gonna try and pull this crap then screw them.

As far as MMOs go, I don't know what to tell you. Since WoW Pay to Play has become a justifiable way to play a game and personally, I will never go for it, but plenty of people do to keep it alive. If you're all about the MMOs then you might just have to bite the bullet and pay the system.

But stick with Valve and PCs because all the good games give you free updated support.

Well think of it this way, I can pretty much guarantee that 90% of any game manufactures profit is in console games why? Because it is way easier to pirate a pc game then a console game, If DLC cost money on a pc people would just pirate it and it would be pointless to sell. On the Consoles the games usually have enhanced capabilities because of programs like xbox live, Such as a larger gamer population. They also have access to pretty much instant advertising since it says it right on the start page of xbox live. Didn't you think there was a reason that most companies are not making PC only games? They make more money on console games. Plus consoles in my opinion are a lot easier, all you do is plug it in and your ready to go plus as said by others they last a lot longer (game wise) than pcs. With consoles game developers need to adapt to the console because there is no alternative, with pcs people can upgrade them so the game developers think to the future(basically they make the games so they run good on future pcs). When school starts I will be getting up at 5:30 AM then go to school followed by drill practice, then the bus ride which puts me home around 6:30 PM then to boy scouts ,CAP, a social event, or any other thing I go to. The point is that I am only home (not sleeping) for about 2-3 hours during the week and a lot of people are in the same situation they don't feel like installing games, and updating things. They just want to get on their xbox and play for a short amount of time. The only two pc games I have is CSS and the Sims3 Legal versions of course! Lets face it hackers and pirates will always be able to crack any pc game, and distribute it easily. While I do know you can hack xboxs and ps3 it is very complicated to the average user and is much harder than pirating a pc game. Any way that is my input...

I don't really think that we should have to pay for DLC. We paid money for the game itself, and that should be enough. Us PC users get things for free while console gamers can get the same stuff PC gamers do, but they have to pay for it. I feel sorry for console gamers who have to pay for these things in order to play with their friends, or to even get a good online experience, while us PC gamers can just go download it for free. i think Microsoft and Sony are a bunch of cheap bastards.

Put yourself in Either of their shoes,

Microsoft: People pirate their programs(office, etc...) and their OS's, Xboxs and Xbox live is their only real reliable profit(until people start making their own consoles). They need to make a profit too!

Sony: While they are not as bad as microsoft because of all their other products (i have invested in a lot of their video equipment) they too need to make money, also I'm pretty sure Sony does not get a lot if any from DLC it probably primarily goes to the game developer.

UPDATE: Here are those "cheap Bastards" as you put it, lowering their price (Yes I know it is probably because they want to sell more, but still lower is lower). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8207472.stm

 

[iOprah]

Well that's my point. I know they work hard to make maps. So did the 1 person and the 3 people who developed CS and TFC... I dunno I'm not trying to sound like a gaming hippie here, but I've always been more of a fan of user generated content.

I've been designing maps since duke nukem 3d (actually working on a css jail map right now) and have asked for nothing in return but feedback on how to make it better.

Im going to assume your still in school....correct me if i am wrong. But what i can pretty much say is true is that Game Developing/Mapping is not your hired and payed job. The people who make the maps for COD or Battlefield or Halo or any other game, it is their job. Their livelihood its what they went to school for. Not to be cruel to anyone or mean, but in my opinion I have never seen (and if I have it is rare...)(Then again rogue is pretty good) a perfect user made map that had no problems, The maps that these guys make who get payed to do so from 9 to 5 usually do not have many if any problems or errors.

 

[EyelessHunter]

Well think of it this way, I can pretty much guarantee that 90% of any game manufactures profit is in console games why? Because it is way easier to pirate a pc game then a console game, If DLC cost money on a pc people would just pirate it and it would be pointless to sell. On the Consoles the games usually have enhanced capabilities because of programs like xbox live, Such as a larger gamer population. They also have access to pretty much instant advertising since it says it right on the start page of xbox live. Didn't you think there was a reason that most companies are not making PC only games? They make more money on console games. Plus consoles in my opinion are a lot easier, all you do is plug it in and your ready to go plus as said by others they last a lot longer (game wise) than pcs. With consoles game developers need to adapt to the console because there is no alternative, with pcs people can upgrade them so the game developers think to the future(basically they make the games so they run good on future pcs). When school starts I will be getting up at 5:30 AM then go to school followed by drill practice, then the bus ride which puts me home around 6:30 PM then to boy scouts ,CAP, a social event, or any other thing I go to. The point is that I am only home (not sleeping) for about 2-3 hours during the week and a lot of people are in the same situation they don't feel like installing games, and updating things. They just want to get on their xbox and play for a short amount of time. The only two pc games I have is CSS and the Sims3 Legal versions of course! Lets face it hackers and pirates will always be able to crack any pc game, and distribute it easily. While I do know you can hack xboxs and ps3 it is very complicated to the average user and is much harder than pirating a pc game. Any way that is my input...





Put yourself in Either of their shoes,

Microsoft: People pirate their programs(office, etc...) and their OS's, Xboxs and Xbox live is their only real reliable profit(until people start making their own consoles). They need to make a profit too!

Sony: While they are not as bad as microsoft because of all their other products they too need to make money, also I'm pretty sure Sony does not get a lot if any from DLC it probably primarily goes to the game developer.

First of all PC developers have found many effective ways to combat piracy (AKA actually updating and supporting their games). Valve is a great example of this. If you notice most of the companies that complain about piracy are companies that have abysmal records of supporting/updating titles and make bad games to begin with> EA!!!!!!!!!

Second of all, sure their are technically more games that are released on console.... but they all cost 60-70 bucks and most of them are terrible. Quantity does not surpass quality.

Thirdly, describing the services of Xbox live as "enhanced capabilities" is the biggest joke I have ever heard in my life. Any thing on Xbox live is available for free on the PC and better.

Next, your notion that more people game on consoles than PC's is a statement that is false and totally unfounded by any real data.