Well, its time for this to stop.

[eurocracy]

While I agree that there is no right or wrong I still feel like discussion should be allowed.

Discussion over opinions often leads to argument.

 

[eightDash]

Discussion over opinions often leads to argument.

Is there even a point to having a forum if contrasting views cannot be discussed? Surely there is a mature way for people to share their opinions without offending anyone.

 

[IceGladiator]

If i offer my solutions i get yelled at.

still understood.

No one is yelling. I corrected a situation. I'm not mad about it, I won't hold it against you. If you want to talk about this, come see me in vent.

While I agree that there is no right or wrong I still feel like discussion should be allowed.

No one is saying there can't be a discussion. I am saying you can discuss in a positive way. (you might argue, but my posts were positive)
As I pointed out, no one offered a solution to the problem.

 

[eightDash]

No one is saying there can't be a discussion. I am saying you can discuss in a positive way.

Yeah I'm not arguing your points, I agree with them, and I feel my comments were not negative. I was just replying to Eurocracy, who doesn't seem to think that discussion is good at all. He appears to feel it always ends in argument since it's only opinion. Though perhaps I'm misinterpreting. Maybe those of us who wished to discuss the giving of items to any new recruits should have started a new thread but other than that I don't feel there was anything wrong.

 

[mrcool]

One idea would be to give the item upon promotion to eG. Say something like "when you earn your admin you get an item." I'm pretty sure Artimus said we needed a faster e to eG promotion time so the item wouldn't be given half a year later (hopefully).

Or you could just give out items when people join but without announcing it and hope the word spreads. That probably wouldn't work as well, but maybe whoever is giving the item could post it in the application thread that this person got this item for joining.

If the item drop limit is 14 a week and you had a 100 people join in giving 2 of those items a week, you could be giving away a bunch of stuff. Probably someone is keeping track of the number of TF2 recruits/week (roughly at least) so what if eGO got enough people to give them all 2 items, or 3-4 or... ?

Either way, good luck.

 

[YoSpankDawg]

Is there even a point to having a forum if contrasting views cannot be discussed? Surely there is a mature way for people to share their opinions without offending anyone.

From my experiences around here for the last 17 months, the forums are the place for somebody to suggest something, everybody to shoot it down, a member of leadership to suggest the same thing and then for everybody to "+1" it like it was the greatest idea ever. :thumbdown:

But yeah I very much agree with Jordan's post and I think this is just yet another moment as happens around here too often where people are having a discussion and it starts to look like a fight because people can't see our (lack of) emotion in our posts.

 

[Angstrom]

No one is saying there can't be a discussion. I am saying you can discuss in a positive way. (you might argue, but my posts were positive)
As I pointed out, no one offered a solution to the problem.

Not every problem has an immediate solution. And while people work on a solution, the problem must be contained.
What you say is basically like saying "Let's allow this murderer to kill people just because we don't know where to lock him yet"
I understand that it's his items but still, it involves the entire organization, because he's getting people in.

 

[Thereven]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inpRaoYdQOI[/ame]

 

[Ozone Depletion]

Yeah I'm not arguing your points, I agree with them, and I feel my comments were not negative. I was just replying to Eurocracy, who doesn't seem to think that discussion is good at all. He appears to feel it always ends in argument since it's only opinion. Though perhaps I'm misinterpreting. Maybe those of us who wished to discuss the giving of items to any new recruits should have started a new thread but other than that I don't feel there was anything wrong.

The problem was that people were critiquing Eurocracy's methods based on a single sentence that he wrote.
We don't know if that sentence was just Eurocracy's hook to get people to talk to him or if it was the complete offer. For all we know he was doing exactly what mrcool suggested and was only giving people an item if they joined and made 10 helpful posts in the forums, or something like that. It was ridiculous the amount of assumptions that were flying around in that thread.
If I was Eurocracy, I wouldn't have wanted to talk about it in that thread either.

It's best if we stick to facts...
- Leadership wants more recruits
- Members can use whatever methods they want to get recruits as long as eGO rules aren't broken.
- Both Artimus and JohnT have stated that it's best to get as many people as we can to sign up and then sort them out later. [I've been listening to old clan meetings trying to find the exact quote/timestamp for you, but my time is limited... and expensive . Feel free to ask in the meeting on Saturday.]

But if you want to make a rule stating that we can't give people our items... you know where the drop box and PSC are, good luck lol

 

[Sequel Sentry]

I think that about sums it up. Even if there are discussions, we can't be attacking an opinion on things like this.

You can argue about which one is better, but like Ozone said, we can't really restrict how people recruit. The fact that they are doing it is good enough for me.

 

[PloxBox]

Great point Ice

 

[eightDash]

The problem was that people were critiquing Eurocracy's methods based on a single sentence that he wrote.
We don't know if that sentence was just Eurocracy's hook to get people to talk to him or if it was the complete offer. For all we know he was doing exactly what mrcool suggested and was only giving people an item if they joined and made 10 helpful posts in the forums, or something like that. It was ridiculous the amount of assumptions that were flying around in that thread.
If I was Eurocracy, I wouldn't have wanted to talk about it in that thread either.

Yes but the discussion wasn't isolated to Eurocracy specifically, and now the matter has developed into a much broader discussion.

Not every problem has an immediate solution. And while people work on a solution, the problem must be contained.
What you say is basically like saying "Let's allow this murderer to kill people just because we don't know where to lock him yet"

I agree 100% though now I'm not sure where I stand on the matter of giving items. To me it seems like it would attract a lot of people solely in it for the items but I also see the logic behind trying to get as many people as an e as possible and then deciding who should be promoted. Both sides have valid and thought out arguments so it doesn't seem as though we'll have a concrete answer anytime soon.

I guess it all comes down to what kind of people do we want? Which should we strive for, quality, or quantity? If we go for quantity we are still guaranteed to get some quality as well.

 

[Noise]

No one is yelling. I corrected a situation. I'm not mad about it, I won't hold it against you. If you want to talk about this, come see me in vent.

I'm saying in the past. I've suggested things for eGO that i thought would improve the community as a whole before, and most of the time I got spammed with steam chats saying YOU CANT DO THAT in a nice way, thread got deleted, etc. I still have those Ideas and I still think they are right but I don't want to get in trouble :|

 

[DuckDastardly]

It would seem that there are really two discussions going on in this thread.

1. Who to recruit
2. How to recruit

From my time with eGO, what i have heard and followed is:
If you are recruiting you should be recruiting anyone who plays on our servers AND isn't pushing the envelope of our rules while they are here.

As for methods, while I don't agree with giving items out to recruit people, it isn't against any rules in eGO, as of yet. So if someone is choosing to recruit that way, others in eGO should leave them be and let them do it until a time when leadership says otherwise.

 

[eightDash]

It would seem that there are really two discussions going on in this thread.

1. Who to recruit
2. How to recruit

From my time with eGO, what i have heard and followed is:
If you are recruiting you should be recruiting anyone who plays on our servers AND isn't pushing the envelope of our rules while they are here.

As for methods, while I don't agree with giving items out to recruit people, it isn't against any rules in eGO, as of yet. So if someone is choosing to recruit that way, others in eGO should leave them be and let them do it until a time when leadership says otherwise.

^This

 

[Kevimaster]

I'm saying in the past. I've suggested things for eGO that i thought would improve the community as a whole before, and most of the time I got spammed with steam chats saying YOU CANT DO THAT in a nice way, thread got deleted, etc. I still have those Ideas and I still think they are right but I don't want to get in trouble :|

Feel free to place any ideas you have in the Drop Box or to PM an Advisor with them without fear of Steam Chat Spam, or Thread Deletion. We would love to hear any and all ideas the members of our division have! If you do let us know via the dropbox or PM, we may be able to explain to you why the idea was "shot down" in the past. Trust me, you will never get in trouble for simply giving us ideas.

As for the main topic of this thread, Duck Dastardly's posts have been spot on.

-Kevi

 

[Ozone Depletion]

Yes but the discussion wasn't isolated to Eurocracy specifically, and now the matter has developed into a much broader discussion.

I was responding to a post where you specifically mentioned Eurocracy and what you thought he was saying. I attempted to clarify what I felt Eurocracy's position was and why so that we could figure out where the misunderstanding was.
Keeping context is important yet hard when in a large forum/discussion like this, and I'm not a very good writer to begin with.

 

[eurocracy]

Yeah I'm not arguing your points, I agree with them, and I feel my comments were not negative. I was just replying to Eurocracy, who doesn't seem to think that discussion is good at all. He appears to feel it always ends in argument since it's only opinion. Though perhaps I'm misinterpreting. Maybe those of us who wished to discuss the giving of items to any new recruits should have started a new thread but other than that I don't feel there was anything wrong.

Thanks for throwing me into a stereotype because of one of my posts, very nice and mature of you.
Excuse me? I never said discussion was bad at all so kindly read over what I said before making accusations. I said that discussions over strong opinions (which should be implied by what has been written) will usually lead to argument, which is why there is no political posts as such. I'm sorry for making my message short and simple in the hope you'd understand it BETTER and you still not being able to understand it. You're being passively aggressive.
Also YSD is pretty much completely correct, if leadership hadn't have gotten involved and I'd have left that thread running, you'd never have stopped guys...
[/rant]
Also amen to what Ozone said.

 

[Sequel Sentry]

Well, I see what's starting here, so I'm going to intervene.

WE DON'T NEED A LOCK ON THE THREAD ABOUT LOCKING ANOTHER THREAD!

Stop arguing. Good lord.

 

[eightDash]

I was responding to a post where you specifically mentioned Eurocracy and what you thought he was saying. I attempted to clarify what I felt Eurocracy's position was and why so that we could figure out where the misunderstanding was.
Keeping context is important yet hard when in a large forum/discussion like this, and I'm not a very good writer to begin with.

Yeah it's all becoming a jumbled mess of replies. My apologies.

Thanks for throwing me into a stereotype because of one of my posts, very nice and mature of you.
Excuse me? I never said discussion was bad at all so kindly read over what I said before making accusations. I said that discussions over strong opinions (which should be implied by what has been written) will usually lead to argument, which is why there is no political posts as such. I'm sorry for making my message short and simple in the hope you'd understand it BETTER and you still not being able to understand it. You're being passively aggressive.
Also YSD is pretty much completely correct, if leadership hadn't have gotten involved and I'd have left that thread running, you'd never have stopped guys...
[/rant]
Also amen to what Ozone said.

Euro, in what way am I throwing you into a stereotype? I am merely reading your posts.

There should be no arguments about which is right or wrong, for it is all an opinion.

Discussion over opinions often leads to argument.

From those two posts I got the idea that perhaps you weren't fond of contrasting opinions being expressed while I seem to think it can be done in a healthy manner. Also I myself even said I could be misinterpreting your thoughts and I in no way intended it as a personal attack. I honestly thought we were more discussing the topic at hand but you seem to think I have something against and it seems as though you have something against me. If I have offended you I apologize, just know it wasn't my intent.

Well, I see what's starting here, so I'm going to intervene.

WE DON'T NEED A LOCK ON THE THREAD ABOUT LOCKING ANOTHER THREAD!

Stop arguing. Good lord.

This whole thread is coming off a lot worse than I think it should. I haven't intended to throw anyone into any stereotype and I have no intention of angering anyone.

Happiness and respect everyone.