Let's get some better forums!

[4g0tt3nSou1]

So, I don't really know how long vBulletin has been here... I kinda ignored the forums entirely before I joined Tech... But I do know one thing; it is far from a modern solution!

I believe as part of the 13th birthday (belated) of eGO, we should give the forums an overhaul!
InvisionPB Forums or XenForo are great solutions!

I think this is a good idea because it would allow us to start from a clean slate, with brand new permissions, themes, forums, and other features!
If I am being honest, I do not like the way the forums look as of current, and find it to be rather "legacy" feeling. I feel that a good percentage of others might agree.

Consider a new look, it might be just the thing to increase forum activity and overall activity in the community.

 

[Ayto]

Another thing is the leadership roster page, a lot of stuff is outdated. Both the tech team and board of directors are missing people.

 

[Eric]

Roster page doesnt really need new forum it just needs to be updated A Ayto . 4g0tt3nSou1 i agree slightly with what you said, but overhauled by the looks not really different kind of forum system because if an old player comes back they will be confused of what to do or how it works then need to be trained in it. But i do think we should bring back (if possible) the steam name link in profile. If you want to add someone on steam (most if not all of us have it) you dont have to go through the steam community to find there name. Lets say i want to add legend on steam but he has his gta name set as his steam name i wont be able to find him, but if i went to his forum page and saw his name and was able to click on it to take me directly to his steam page(even if his name isnt legend at that time) i would still be able to add him. This was onr of the best ways to add new people fast from our forums on steam bacj then i miss this.

Also i do think the themes should change more often color and pictures. Like more than on just holidays months. I just thought of a way to do ot too, a clan wide event once a month different game each month and the mvp of event gets to choose the theme of the next month. This could also show in the theme there name the event they won and what game they won. Add any more ideas

 

[Simon]

Another thing is the leadership roster page, a lot of stuff is outdated. Both the tech team and board of directors are missing people.

That can be edited in seconds by someone who takes the time to fix it.

Changing software was suggested about a million times a year ago and will likely never happen. We have a ton of custom forum plugins and the entire site is built around vbulletin. It's a mature system that's been around a long time. Migration is way too difficult at this point and would take months and months. With all the other things tech has on it's plate, this will never be one of them. It took us years just to upgrade vbulletion versions because of how much crap there is to tackle. Also migrating millions of posts is an ugly process.

There's plenty we could probably do to clean up, there's plenty we could add/change. But actually switching software would be the ultimate tech nightmare for this place. We've been on this system since day one. Everything is made around it. We'd need a dedicated tech team member on it. I think our gaming servers are a much higher priority.

But I think a forum theme is more reasonable to request if you just want it to look nicer.

 

[4g0tt3nSou1]

Eric , That is is a perfectly valid point. Returning players would be faced with learning a new system. I however think that in the end most would be unaffected by such. I mean forums are forums, you still type in a box and it appears on the internet. Being said there would be things here and there, but if you have an ounce of patience, they shouldn't be all that difficult to master. However the burden shouldn't be on the users, so for that there is a legitimate drawback to switching systems.

As for Simon , I have to disagree entirely. Something like XenForo was created by one of the developers behind vBulletin oddly enough, so with that being said there should be a lot of similarity, but brought up to a modern standard. I will go on a limb though and say a large majority of the custom plugins in the current system might be already included in a modern system. If it isn't, I mean this wouldn't be an overhaul for nothing! those too can be brought up to now, with updates to those plugins, or maybe even fresh code altogether. As for migrating the posts over, you would archive everything, and then either A, post that archive on the other forums; or B, take the lazy route, just restrict the old system to view only for the entire system, so that the entire site would still exist as a backup and as an archive. Either method works.

While I don't want to put stuff on the plate of my fellow tech team dudes, It isn't all that big of a nightmare.

Simply put, if we set it up and fully build/configure it before switching the platform over, the process can take as long as it needs, and be seamless on the user side, We could in theory even import every user over with some trickery, all without a user needing to lift a finger. Hell, I have personally done this before; not in such a scale but in a large enough scale. I'm not saying it will be easy, but I do believe it will pay off, and I think that it is achievable if people work together to get it done.

Regarding theming, While seasonal/event themes are nice. We lack even a simple "Dark theme"... The overhaul would bring in new seasonal/event themes, but even brand new generic themes. Dark themes, or even allow the user to customize their own theme.

 

[WaSe]

brand new permissions, themes, forums, and other features!

You're not selling me.



Don't all of our permissions come from MAUL any way..

We can add new themes at any time

What do you mean by "lets get rid of the forums, for new forums!"

 

[4g0tt3nSou1]

WaSe Forum permissions are separate from maul, as far as I know. Often times, from what I have been lead to believe, these permissions don't always work the way they are intended anyway.

Being said, a new system would allow for a rewrite in those permissions, meaning everything starts from a blank slate, and are built exactly to the current needs. Any and all existing issues regarding those would then be handled(Not to say that all the problems in the world will suddenly be solved, there will be new issues I am sure, and new problems to tackle). In the same effect, it would possibly make things more fluid. In what I imagine this system would look like, there would be as few steps as possible to accomplish any given task. The less back and fourth between different parts of the forum just to do one thing, the better.

Theming can be done on either platform, and both platforms have a limit on what exactly you can do to change the appearance/interface of the software (no matter what, vBulletin will still look like vBulletin; as Xen/IPB will look like Xen/IPB). I never stated that we couldn't just slap a new coat of paint on vBulletin and freshen up the themes; or that we need new software to theme. The point deeper was a new interface and platform is overdue, and welcomed. Things would be newer.

If it helps, think of my suggestion as the difference between an iPhone 4 and an iPhone 8.
If you were to compare the two; both function rather similar, but the iPhone 8 is lightyears better than the iPhone 4. Both are good devices, both can complete the task they are for. One may do some things better than the other. However you are not going to buy an iPhone 4 today. Both do an amazing job. vBulletin has served very well for this community and many a community; as the iPhone 4 has.
But iPhone 8 and even 10's exist. They are tested and true. All of the custom work you did to make that iPhone 4 yours actually get integrated into the newer platforms.

Anyhow, enough of the analogy.
If you needed another incentive as well, updates/support would exist on a newer platform, with probably a good community base for whatever platform. I'm sure vBulletin is at end of life, meaning no new updates, and only the community as a support.
Hell. We could even pay a rep from whatever software we go with to set the entire thing up, doing the heavy lifting. Xen offers it for 50 bucks...

 

[Simon]

You should talk to GardenGroveVW and understand how many custom plugins the site utilitizes not just in the forums but in conjunction with all our servers, DAPS, MAUL, etc. I think you are underestimating how hard this would be.

It took us almost 5 years to jump VB versions and when we did, it was weeks before the site was “back to normal”. Some stuff was still never done because of how much other work tech has had to do.

It just seems like an extreme use of time when we have a lot of game servers that are in need of attention.

Most of the custom plugins are specific to us and our servers and systems.

Again... talk to GGVW for a few minutes and you’ll get it. Trust me.

I love the enthusiasm and as an avid forum user for a long time, I’m always up for improvements. But this is just something we will not see in any remotely near future.
WaSe VB and MAUL are sort of fused together when it comes to permissions. They interact. It’s also a nightmare of permission setups.

 

[4g0tt3nSou1]

I know it's not a walk in the park. I'll try and talk to GGVW, but I am no spring rose when it comes to this stuff. I'm sure it would be a pretty big challenge. I am sure that maybe my enthusiasm is doing most of the talking when it comes to the project.

Understand this though, I am not going to see some sort of light and all of a sudden 180 my position(not to double down, Failure is a good teacher. If things don't work, c'est la vie.). As someone who is fluent in these systems, I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that most everything that is achieved here can be achieved in a newer system. It isn't "I don't get it", I understand in full capacity what I am suggesting, and what challenges it will present.

I am sure the conversation we will have will enlighten some probable challenges; and provide some insight as to the gravity of the current problems.

But nothing is impossible. If things go ahead and this suggestion is made into a project; I have no doubts in my mind it will prove to be successful eventually. It won't take five years. Hell, if we seriously plot out this project, the entire thing could be ready at 100% capacity inside of six months; with a working beta in 3, depending on the route taken, definitely not taking more than 15 months tops(and that is an extreme, there should be no reason at all for that much time to be taken.). If we expand past the tech team, and into the larger pool of resources available, it is possible.
Anyhow, even IF it took five years, I am not saying a switch is made immediately; vBulletin definitely can work while the project is worked on, and only after we are 100% ready, would the switch be made. In the meantime it's business as usual for the forums.

I look forward to talking with GGVW. And I look forward to a newer system. It'll come sooner or later.

 

[Simon]

I Understand this though, I am not going to see some sort of light and all of a sudden 180 my position(not to double down, Failure is a good teacher. If things don't work, c'est la vie.). As someone who is fluent in these systems, I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that most everything that is achieved here can be achieved in a newer system. It isn't "I don't get it", I understand in full capacity what I am suggesting, and what challenges it will present.

Well, best of luck continuing to pitch it to the directors - they have the final say on such a big upgrade like this. I hope the enthusiasm in the mean time can go into fixing some much needed bugs and systems in our game servers!

 

[GardenGroveVW]

4g0tt3nSou1 - Are you a web guy?

 

[Legend]

Although it's far from where the topic is now, I want it to be known that Invision Community or Invision Power Board is horrendous.

 

[Eric]

GardenGroveVW and Legend about the thing i said about steam accounts link on forum profile can we get that back if possible?

 

[Corrupted]

As long as it's fresh, looks good and has a dark theme then i like the idea

 

[4g0tt3nSou1]

GardenGroveVW , Yes, I'd say I am very fluent, at a pretty advanced level.
PHP, HTML, XML, CSS, JS(ish, I can read it, less write).

 

[Garrett]

Would be awesome to see a complete overhaul, however don't know if it is worth Tech's time (but you are tech, so I guess you tell me haha).

I believe the most effective might just be a custom skin/theme. They go a long way, and if you do it right you can make it look like a modern forums software without having to do a lot of backend work.

 

[Jacko]

I've grown to love and appreciate eGO's (vBulletin) but changing to an updated forum software will benefit the community years to come. Every year we will be getting a newer generation of gamers and catering to a user friendly and up-to-date theme/navigation will attract a larger audience to the community and website.

Look I know leadership is long tired of hearing about pG had this and pG had that but the only thing I truly miss are the forums (XenForo). It was easier to navigate and I felt it offered an intuitive experience that kept me on the forums longer.


By no means is this a simple task but it is definitely not impossible. Prioritizing server functionality is of course of importance but denying the "millions" of suggestions Simon mentioned isn't right. If the majority of this community feels like updating the forums will be a benefit to the community then we should really look into it.

 

[Matrix]

You should talk to GardenGroveVW and understand how many custom plugins the site utilitizes not just in the forums but in conjunction with all our servers, DAPS, MAUL, etc. I think you are underestimating how hard this would be.

It took us almost 5 years to jump VB versions and when we did, it was weeks before the site was ?back to normal?. Some stuff was still never done because of how much other work tech has had to do.

It just seems like an extreme use of time when we have a lot of game servers that are in need of attention.

Most of the custom plugins are specific to us and our servers and systems.

Again... talk to GGVW for a few minutes and you?ll get it. Trust me.

I love the enthusiasm and as an avid forum user for a long time, I?m always up for improvements. But this is just something we will not see in any remotely near future.
WaSe VB and MAUL are sort of fused together when it comes to permissions. They interact. It?s also a nightmare of permission setups.

Isn't all that stuff getting a facelift soon?

 

[4g0tt3nSou1]

Isn't all that stuff getting a facelift soon?

It's quite possible, there isn't really a roadmap though of "What is being done" atm.
Right now, it's maintenance(fixing bugs), porting the bugs forum section over to the git support "repo", and anything, and projects here and there that get approved.

Or at least, that's the stuff that I know is going on, There are kinda two levels of access; "classified" and "in the loop", so there could easily be something being plotted behind closed doors that isn't "public" knowledge.

I mean, facelifts are cool, and appreciated. But overhauls definitely take the cake.

 

[Kaise]

While I don't think forums should be remade from scratch, some nice quality of life improvements would be nice.