Growing spy difficulty

[/Aqua Blue]

No spy is perfectly fine the way he is it's just the circumstances that we are in.Besides a disguise isn't supposed to fully prevent you from being found out it's supposed to help you blend in but you can't expect to just pop on any random disguise and make it.Cloak timers depend on maps but its decent but if there was a way to make it recharge faster when near a dispenser then it will be great.Lastly remember we play on 32 play servers where theres going to be people everywhere.You can't expect a spy to really thrive here but in 24 slot servers they are good.

 

[NYC 3L1T3]

I think the spy diguise system is fine how it is. If you play Spy well you really dont need a diguise anyways.

That's what makes it a problem... Valve intended the Spy to have more roleplaying with the disguise kit. To fool the enemies. Not buildables. They don't fool the enemies many times, which is WHY it may seem fine to those who live by the "don't rely on disguise" card, but it shouldn't have to be that way and it shouldn't be that way at all.

 

[NYC 3L1T3]

No spy is perfectly fine the way he is it's just the circumstances that we are in.Besides a disguise isn't supposed to fully prevent you from being found out it's supposed to help you blend in but you can't expect to just pop on any random disguise and make it.Cloak timers depend on maps but its decent but if there was a way to make it recharge faster when near a dispenser then it will be great.Lastly remember we play on 32 play servers where theres going to be people everywhere.You can't expect a spy to really thrive here but in 24 slot servers they are good.

Disguises AREN'T supposed to make you invincible, of course. But they're so blindingly obvious it's ridiculous. And if there are 9 disguises, those disguises should be viable. You should theoretically be able to "pop on any random disguise and make it." There shouldn't be useless disguises. Otherwise, Valve might as well remove 2/3 of them because there's very few that are viable, and some only in certain situations.

And Spies seem to do better on higher player servers. Why? Because with lower player count, communication and memorizing team position is easier while in higher player count, one can get lost in the chaos and blend in easier... bar the huge fights where you get owned by strays.

 

[NYC 3L1T3]

You really have to practice at spy to get the good knowing of how to use him. The soldier and such classes really don't need as much skill....Point and shoot.....However an experienced spy will look ahead of him and decide what he wants to do/take out first. That all in all takes some time...Just my 2cents

True, but by that same token, all classes have some skill ceiling and abilities that separate the decent from the great. For example, a soldier that can rocket jump weapon, always keep his rocket reloaded, know when to use what weapons, consistently land mid-air shots, etc. are far more skillful than the ones that just spam rockets til they crit. Same for demo with sticky jumping, trapping, pipe bombs (big one that separates a good demo from the bunny hopping sticky spammers).

Off-topic: Which reminds me 1 thing about the demo: When you look at the unlock page, all weapons show Primary, Secondary, Tertiary from top to bottom except Spy and Demo. Spy shows 1st and 3rd (no sapper or disguise) and demo shows 2nd, 1st, 3rd... as in Sticky as primary, pipe as secondary, which is wrong... anyone find that even slightly humorously ironic?

 

[NYC 3L1T3]

Those were all good points but with this last one, you say they are supposed to provide alternatives, and that valve cant break that vow whereas they already have with the blutsauger and axtinguisher, ive killed a lone heavy with my blutsauger and the axtinguisher makes it too easy for pyro kills without wasting ammo.

Yeah, I think I mentioned that but yes, the blut, axe, and ubersaw are pretty much direct upgrades. But I was saying that those were mistakes because of their shoddy downsides:

Blut- No crits for health. That means you trade a very rare random occurrence for a definite health gain.

Axe- You lose half damage but 1 puff of flame from anything and you do 195 DPS with the axe.

Saw- You get 20 (25?)% reduction in attack speed for 25% ubercharge. The problem is, if you're holding down mouse1 when meleeing instead of making procise hits, you're doing it wrong for lack of a better phrase.

Sorry for quadruple post.... I haven't had much sleep and I just now while typing this realize I could've copy/pasted it all into 1 post... wow.

 

[OminancE]

What I think should happen is that when you disguise if you're holding you're revolver, it should be seen as disguise with primary weapon, if you've got your sapper ready it should be secondary weapon, and when you hold the knif it should be melee weapon.

thats a really good idea :|

can we say i told you this?

= )

 

[bigwilly]

NYC covered most of the issues. 32-man maps (as opposed to 24-man) make it harder for the spy, as does increase use of pyros. Multiple spies will put the enemy on high-alert, so having more than one spy on a team is difficult. If you're playing a good team, spy usefulness is very limited because the enemy is too savvy, and discovers you quickly, often with pyros on the lookout. And the maps that favor spies (and scouts) like badlands and gravelpit aren't popular.

 

[Butcher]

NYC covered most of the issues. 32-man maps (as opposed to 24-man) make it harder for the spy, as does increase use of pyros. Multiple spies will put the enemy on high-alert, so having more than one spy on a team is difficult. If you're playing a good team, spy usefulness is very limited because the enemy is too savvy, and discovers you quickly, often with pyros on the lookout. And the maps that favor spies (and scouts) like badlands and gravelpit aren't popular.

Why I'm a sad scout most of the time.

 

[Robotnik]

Axe- You lose half damage but 1 puff of flame from anything and you do 195 DPS with the axe.

The axtinquisher is more a fun tool than anything else. You can only get a hit with it if you're at point blank. And if someone let a Pyro get this close then he will die from normal flaming too. Flaming + swing with the axtinquisher is another option, which imo stands as a pure lulz generator, not upgrade. Unless you are talking about taking down a Heavy or Soldier, here I can agree that axtinquisher really speeds up the process of killing them...but Heavy shreds Pyro's, Soldier can juggle and shred them too. If they let a Pyro get close he deservers the kill, with use of axtinquisher or not.

Lighter classes should be a dead meat to a combat classes. Rocket to the face or axtiquisher to the face, it's the same.

And getting a burst of flames + 1 axe swipe looks the same to me as 2-3 normal melee hits or 1 critical one. Pretty much like those Heavies one shotting everyone with punches.

 

[Singe125]

I've also seen times when you just give up because there's pyros everywhere just spraying fire. But Valid points besides. I play spy every now and then even if its just to test the waters to speak if its possible. If everyone on the other team is virtually looking for spies I just switch to heavy and shoot my way through.

Because they knew there was a spy around

 

[NYC 3L1T3]

The axtinquisher is more a fun tool than anything else. You can only get a hit with it if you're at point blank. And if someone let a Pyro get this close then he will die from normal flaming too. Flaming + swing with the axtinquisher is another option, which imo stands as a pure lulz generator, not upgrade. Unless you are talking about taking down a Heavy or Soldier, here I can agree that axtinquisher really speeds up the process of killing them...but Heavy shreds Pyro's, Soldier can juggle and shred them too. If they let a Pyro get close he deservers the kill, with use of axtinquisher or not.

Lighter classes should be a dead meat to a combat classes. Rocket to the face or axtiquisher to the face, it's the same.

And getting a burst of flames + 1 axe swipe looks the same to me as 2-3 normal melee hits or 1 critical one. Pretty much like those Heavies one shotting everyone with punches.

Well many times the flame can take a long time and if you're hitting say a heavy, I'd rather 1 puff then hit him for 195 twice and kill him. And you're never guaranteed a crit with the normal axe and you get a guaranteed 3x damage on the new one. Range isn't necessarily point-blank because in-game, axes have the longest range of about 12 ft out of all melee weapons, so it's pretty easy to hit with. Mind you I don't believe in the BB.

 

[Butcher]

Because they knew there was a spy around

Or they could be like alot of people nowdays that just run around with the flame going in case theres one around.

 

[bubba92103]

Well I've played spy a ton and I know for a fact that there are some serious flaws with it and I think all of em' have been layed out on the table but the spy is still one of the funnest and most unique classes to play. Agreed it is extremely frustrating when you are plagued by bad luck and bugs but it is still so rewarding to sneak up on that sniper who's dominating you, stab him in the back and leave him with a good taunt pic before sapping an entire base and stabbing a few people on the way out. I think Valve will soon correct the spy's errors. Probably after the heavy update. Until then happy sapping and stabbing.

 

[Beta]

spy is suppose to be a hard class to play. i always stick with the strategy of staying away from pyros. here are a few tips ive picked up:

On pl maps, never go near the cart disguised
never go near pyros
when disguised dont go against the grain, what i mean is when your a spy and your going the other way than the rest of the team its suspicious.

 

[Butcher]

spy is suppose to be a hard class to play. i always stick with the strategy of staying away from pyros. here are a few tips ive picked up:

On pl maps, never go near the cart disguised
never go near pyros
when disguised dont go against the grain, what i mean is when your a spy and your going the other way than the rest of the team its suspicious.

Unless im a pyro i generally stay away from pyros period.

 

[*! Akster !*]

Scout cant really disguise as because you go a lot slower than an actual scout, hvy you go quite a bit faster but that hasnt stopped me from disguising as one so far

 

[Spiral7]

I don't really care what new weapons the Spy gets, as long as his cloak can recharge at respawn. Also, if they fix some of the bugs with the backstab, that would be great.

 

[AWPerator]

I don't understand why people want the spy to refill cloak at respawn. Just switch to spy again, and it'll refresh everything.

I even binded f7 to do this for me

 

[Black cat]

I don't understand why people want the spy to refill cloak at respawn. Just switch to spy again, and it'll refresh everything.

I even binded f7 to do this for me

Won't that wipe your backstab chain? Never!!

 

[Captain Wes]

I think one of the more pressing issues are the absurd number of pyro's on the servers at the moment. Sure our time will come during the heavy achievements, but using a simple disguise no-longer seems to fool as many people as it used to.

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