Regarding Dogs

Captain Kraken

Active Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
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358
Note: This thread is mainly a rebuttal at a series of opinions; as such it is an opinion in itself and should not be taken as 100% truth.​

On the steam forums about two days ago a post was made called "In Times of Non-Updates." In this post, there was a link to an image, one of the many proposed 10th Class designs. This one was a little different however, it was a dog. The idea behind the class was well thought out, and the people seemed to really like it. E-mails to Robin Walker ensued as people are seriously rallying behind the idea.

There has also been a lot of negative reactions. As for those opposed, 90% of them have adopted this cunning strategy and reason:

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For most, the argument comes down to simply this: Valve would never do it, because it was a joke. While this may seem reasonable in argument to those that say it, I would like to remind you of another "joke" a few months back.

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This started out as a prank on April Fools, and has since become one of the Sniper Class' most used unlockables. And when it was found out that this was going to be taken seriously, there was also a lot of negative attention, most of them using the same exact argument, "This is a joke, get it the hell out of my TF2."

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However, if the past is any indication, if Valve decides they want to do it, they will do it. You have one of two general options. You can accept the possibility that this may be the next new class and enjoy the prospects of what it could mean for the game. Or you can simply stop playing the game while raging about it because it wasn't SUPER SRS, and a that a dog class has no business being next to the bow and arrow carrying piss chucker.

In short, please apply reason before rage. I will gladly discuss the arguments against this class or answer questions. I will add a section below for each argument if I have a rebuttal. But please keep it civil and use genuine thought; "It's a joke" won't hold water in my debates.

KRAKEN'S LIST OF LOGICAL ARGUMENTS​

#1 - Ten Classes Too Many

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Some say that ten classes is too much, that nine is the perfect number. When Team Fortress Classic was made, nine classes was an insane amount to choose from, this sort of holds true today as well, most FPS games that don't offer a create-a-class usually have the number set somewhere around five.

If there were ten from the beginning, we likely would never have noticed the difference this presents us with. Another argument that falls into this category is the belief that every class has a role, and that there can be no more than nine because all roles have been filled. While this is somewhat true in a few cases, such as the sniper, almost all of the classes tend to tread on another's territory, they just do it in different ways.

For example, both the Heavy and the Pyro are both used on offense and defense, the real use ends up being killing a lot of players in a short range and causing general havoc. Both classes do that, some players do this exclusively. This isn't much of a reason for removing them from the game, and such shouldn't be used to stop one from being added.

The addition of unlockables also clouds up this argument, as any combination changes the playstyle of each class to a high degree. I'm not going to do the math, but the resulting amount of playstyles ends with that person coming around that corner fighting or being fought well over 100 possible ways. A tenth class' impact on a game with such a highly adaptive playerbase already would be minimal, perhaps more effective upon release but would eventually be combated like any other.
 
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I'm actually interested in a 10th class. I wonder what it will be?
 
of course the 10th class will be a dog. why else would they let the heavy drop a sandwich on the ground for someone else to eat? I mean, when a sandwich hits the floor, who is there to gobble it up? That's right, good ol' Rover.

And, why else would they give a freaking ball to the scout? What plays with a thrown or batted ball? That's right, good ol' Rover.

The pieces to the puzzle add up. Really, you guys should have seen this coming from a mile away.
 
Would be interesting to see what they come up with, if it is the dog wonder what type of weapons as well as abilities it will have. Maybe catch the base ball with its mouth ect, who knows.
 
I agree, it would be a viable class update/added class. All I'm thinking is, have Valve changed the game so much from what it was, so it is now no longer the "same game" they seem to be doing worse and worse with updates, so I'd love to see how they'd screw this one up... then patch it... then patch the patch. Could valve execute it well? I dunno.
 
Yeah, Valve has the incredible ability to screw the game up at the slightest turn. For once, what they should do is listen to the fan base that is actually intelligent, not the hyperactive 13-year-olds who play. I may only be turning 16 this year, but I know that a large part of the fans are non-mature people who just blab to Valve random things to put into the game, such as "Wouldn't it be cool if we had hats?", and valve listens. Those are the type of things that make it difficult to enjoy TF2 anymore for me. The original game they released in 2007 was so good, now its totally unbalanced because if you go around a corner expecting one class, and you get another, you usually don't win. The addition of so many things have made the game a mess. Sure, whats another class or two, but if that happens, I promise I will never play the game again.
 
When updates hit, Valve is well aware that they can't please everybody with what comes. No matter what's added to the game, any balancing WILL take a hit, and the team will have to work on making things better as they go.

All they can hope to do is make the majority of their fanbase happy, and keep selling the great game that is TF2.

With that said, if it's ever actual made, or if any 10th class is made, it happens. I'm sure the majority of us will suck it up and keep playing the ever-changing game of TF2. If it doesn't? Same result.
 
...I mean, when a sandwich hits the floor, who is there to gobble it up? That's right, good ol' Rover.

And, why else would they give a freaking ball to the scout? What plays with a thrown or batted ball? That's right, good ol' Rover.

logical sentiments are...logical
 
Yeah, Valve has the incredible ability to screw the game up at the slightest turn. For once, what they should do is listen to the fan base that is actually intelligent, not the hyperactive 13-year-olds who play. I may only be turning 16 this year, but I know that a large part of the fans are non-mature people who just blab to Valve random things to put into the game, such as "Wouldn't it be cool if we had hats?", and valve listens. Those are the type of things that make it difficult to enjoy TF2 anymore for me. The original game they released in 2007 was so good, now its totally unbalanced because if you go around a corner expecting one class, and you get another, you usually don't win. The addition of so many things have made the game a mess. Sure, whats another class or two, but if that happens, I promise I will never play the game again.

I think that the game has been made much much better actually. I've played the original version via xbox. Pyro has no airblast, heavy has no sandwich, no kritzkrieg, no other weapon drops. The addition of weapons didn't ruin the game one bit. The addition of maps and gamemodes didn't ruin the game. The addition of hats didn't ruin the game. They added more things to make the game better, and IMO they succeeded.

A well thought out, balanced tenth class would be a welcome update. Hell, they can even replace the class with two primary weapons, the demoman, for all i care!
 
Hell, they can even replace the class with two primary weapons, the demoman, for all i care!
Uh oh.
*runs away and hides in a bunker*

I'm really not ready to take any sides in this. Whatever Valve does, I'll keep playing TF2 because unlike most developers, they learn from their mistakes and as such, will most likely fix or attempt to fix the 10th class if one is ever brought into the game.
 
Not a 10th class please. This will become a 10th class rampage and the other classes will be totally obsolete.
 
I think it just showing off the new sentery modle. It will be a dog thats sitting goign side to side.
 
I want to address 2 things here. first up, the dog, second up, classes.

Firstly, while I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a canine addition, I think it would be impractical, largely due to one big limitation: Lack of opposable thumbs. What weapons would a dog have? I can already see many working ins, such as another means to deploy urine (perhaps a refill station for snipers), the stun on sandwich use, etc. However, claws and teeth don't make for much variation; it'd all be melee. How about unlockables? bigger claws? silver teeth? A beehive attached to the roof of their mouth (read: watch the simpsons)?

As for the issue of class, I think that 9 is likely enough. If you think of a full team of 16, there is already a particular sort of imbalance with the classes; on a strict level of number balance, there can't be even numbers. you'd need a team of 18 to have 2 of every class. That said, in practice, the classes are never balanced that way. on solid team, you'll have more engies, more demos, perhaps. On a typical team, you'll have all pyros and snipers, but that's another issue.

Yes, I believe it may turn out to be too crowded, but in practice, I'm more worried about role. we had, once upon a time, a thread about what another awesome class would be, and there were some cool ideas; however, it would mess up the fundamental '3 O, 3 D, 3 support' structure that is in place currently. What would they be, another support?

I believe wholeheartedly that they will not be releasing another class until they finish the current round of class packs (that is, giving the demo, engie, and soldier their packs). Even when that's done, I think they're more likely to release a SECOND set of class packs for everyone before they make another entirely new class.

My 2 cents :)
 
I think that the game has been made much much better actually. I've played the original version via xbox. Pyro has no airblast, heavy has no sandwich, no kritzkrieg, no other weapon drops. The addition of weapons didn't ruin the game one bit. The addition of maps and gamemodes didn't ruin the game. The addition of hats didn't ruin the game. They added more things to make the game better, and IMO they succeeded.

A well thought out, balanced tenth class would be a welcome update. Hell, they can even replace the class with two primary weapons, the demoman, for all i care!

The point i was trying to make is that some people do not like the addition of all these things. Look at the scout for instance. He was never supposed to be a one on one fighting class, now if you do it right, you can kill a soldier in one clip of the fan if you use the sandman to stun him. Maybe I'm taking this a bit too far, but I really could not stand another cheap thing that can kill me without giving me the ability to fight back.
 
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