Regarding Dogs

[Liliana]

I want to address 2 things here. first up, the dog, second up, classes.

Firstly, while I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a canine addition, I think it would be impractical, largely due to one big limitation: Lack of opposable thumbs. What weapons would a dog have? I can already see many working ins, such as another means to deploy urine (perhaps a refill station for snipers), the stun on sandwich use, etc. However, claws and teeth don't make for much variation; it'd all be melee. How about unlockables? bigger claws? silver teeth? A beehive attached to the roof of their mouth (read: watch the simpsons)?

The guns on his back are controlled with his mind.

 

[Danzyyg]

The point i was trying to make is that some people do not like the addition of all these things. Look at the scout for instance. He was never supposed to be a one on one fighting class, now if you do it right, you can kill a soldier in one clip of the fan if you use the sandman to stun him. Maybe I'm taking this a bit too far, but I really could not stand another cheap thing that can kill me without giving me the ability to fight back.

You mean like the medics uber charge when you get cornered some where and the heavy rips you to pieces?

 

[Idol]

The Prez!

When Team Fortress Classic was made, nine classes was an insane amount to choose from...If there were ten from the beginning, we likely would never have noticed the difference this presents us with. Another argument that falls into this category is the belief that every class has a role, and that there can be no more than nine because all roles have been filled.

Only nine classes in TFC? Well Cap'n Kraken...

...would like to have a word with you.

 

[opscomm]

You mean like the medics uber charge when you get cornered some where and the heavy rips you to pieces?

At least I can still shoot at that or possibly run away. If I'm bonked I can't.

 

[Captain Kraken]

Not a 10th class please. This will become a 10th class rampage and the other classes will be totally obsolete.

If you are gonna bother posting that I sure hope you brought some actual argument with you, I want you to explain it. You are reminding me of this.

Please read what the purpose behind this thread is before posting like that, or at least analyze it for a few minutes.

I want to address 2 things here. first up, the dog, second up, classes.

Firstly, while I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a canine addition, I think it would be impractical, largely due to one big limitation: Lack of opposable thumbs. What weapons would a dog have? I can already see many working ins, such as another means to deploy urine (perhaps a refill station for snipers), the stun on sandwich use, etc. However, claws and teeth don't make for much variation; it'd all be melee. How about unlockables? bigger claws? silver teeth? A beehive attached to the roof of their mouth (read: watch the simpsons)?

As for the issue of class, I think that 9 is likely enough. If you think of a full team of 16, there is already a particular sort of imbalance with the classes; on a strict level of number balance, there can't be even numbers. you'd need a team of 18 to have 2 of every class. That said, in practice, the classes are never balanced that way. on solid team, you'll have more engies, more demos, perhaps. On a typical team, you'll have all pyros and snipers, but that's another issue.

Yes, I believe it may turn out to be too crowded, but in practice, I'm more worried about role. we had, once upon a time, a thread about what another awesome class would be, and there were some cool ideas; however, it would mess up the fundamental '3 O, 3 D, 3 support' structure that is in place currently. What would they be, another support?

I believe wholeheartedly that they will not be releasing another class until they finish the current round of class packs (that is, giving the demo, engie, and soldier their packs). Even when that's done, I think they're more likely to release a SECOND set of class packs for everyone before they make another entirely new class.

My 2 cents

2 cents noted, but allow me to add to the pot. Firstly, the fact that it's a dog. This hardly means much, especially since it's a game with teleporters and a beam that heals all boo-boos (except thick-headedness and mental issues) Also to note, they have technology now that actually uses your sensory organs (brain eyes etc) to control things. It's in it's babysteps at the moment, but that proves that it isn't impossible. AS noted in it's main page, the weapons would be 1: guns on his back, hardly melee, more like the SMG. 2: The Helper, which isn't melee at all since it's an entirely passive weapon made for moving raw material. 3: claws and fangs, which is what every class has essentially, a melee weapon. and 4: The Track'n'Down ability, which is geared towards finding and hindering specific players on a team that are causing your team trouble. In the end this class would be considered more of a support role, as I do not expect his gun to do much damage, mainly using it to attack Tracked targets.

As for the 9 being enough, read the section on Ten Classes too Many. With unlocks now, no matter what class you are using, you have a possibility of using at least 7 weapon layouts (slightly less for snipers and spies) and even this doesn't really include how each one can be used. the way a person plays with that class leads to infinite possibilities. So when it comes down to it, class does not matter so much as the person behind it. A team of 100% scouts can beat a team with varied classes if the opponent is dim enough, the extra class just means another playstyle for those seeking another niche.

As for release dates, it has already been stated that the dog is a joke, and it won't be happening. This thread is merely for debate reasons poised against ridiculous statements like the one above your quote here. If an actual 10th class is made I expect that it will not be released until the packs are finished and Valve has had time to assess the current situation with all of those weapons provided. Then they would likely make plans for a new class including unlockables ready to be earned from release (if they are smart anyway.)

Only nice classes in TFC? Well Cap'n Kraken...

...would like to have a word with you.

The civilian is not a class in my eyes, so I did not include him, he is more of a gimmick. It would be like me putting in the payload cart as a class.

 

[Louis VI]

I don't think a 10th class is necessary.

 

[Captain Kraken]

I don't think a 10th class is necessary.

Never said anything about it being necessary. The 10th class is a proposed idea, not set in stone. And if you think about it, how many of the 9 classes that we have already are truly necessary. Pyro isn't, spy isn't, sniper sure as hell isn't necessary, but there they are. In the end, each class is a bundle of playstyles gathered together, the more variety in playstyles, the more players can find one that suits them.

In theory, all a game has to do to qualify as an FPS (not a successful one mind you, just setting the minimum) is give you a pistol and have you on your merry way shooting all the other guys with pistols. It's additions like the ones we are discussing that make good games what they are.

 

[torzak]

I think it just showing off the new sentery modle. It will be a dog thats sitting goign side to side.

+1

 

[babyJam]

i havent even played the 9 classes we got now.. another is just gonna confuseme more

 

[KiraGami]

I think the GUARD DOG is not going to be a 10th class, but a buildable unit for the engineer. Its like a moving sentry not a dog, but a walking structure that resembles or look like a dog that only has a limited area it moves in.

 

[Artinz]

The hit box of the dog would be very small, because dogs are usually smaller than humans. Also, its speed would be a lot faster than even the scout, which is too fast.

 

[Zopy]

Not going to happen. It was a good joke. All in all, the idea is pointless, and is overshadowed by other classes.

Dogs are without a doubt, faster than human beings. Using this logic it would be safe to assume that the GD's primary focus would be on capturing objectives and annoyance. Due to low health (as seen from the pictures), full-on combat would be futile, as the player would find themself dead before long. Because of this, the GD would have to maneuver around their opponent, fire, and flee. This would be repeated until the opponent is dead. Also, the dogs would be in charge of reaching points, intel, and payload carts before everyone else and give the objective a push.

Hm, this point of the dog seems oddly familiar...I wonder...

Addendum: The secondary fire is also pointless. The GD seems to be an offense class, not a support class. They didn't implement the scout with anything like this. Why? It's useless. People get health from medics and ammo from dispensers.

 

[Captain Kraken]

Not going to happen. It was a good joke. All in all, the idea is pointless, and is overshadowed by other classes.

Dogs are without a doubt, faster than human beings. Using this logic it would be safe to assume that the GD's primary focus would be on capturing objectives and annoyance. Due to low health (as seen from the pictures), full-on combat would be futile, as the player would find themself dead before long. Because of this, the GD would have to maneuver around their opponent, fire, and flee. This would be repeated until the opponent is dead. Also, the dogs would be in charge of reaching points, intel, and payload carts before everyone else and give the objective a push.

Hm, this point of the dog seems oddly familiar...I wonder...

Addendum: The secondary fire is also pointless. The GD seems to be an offense class, not a support class. They didn't implement the scout with anything like this. Why? It's useless. People get health from medics and ammo from dispensers.

It was already stated many times to be a joke and we know that it won't be implemented. Just thought you should know that you are becoming an echo.

As for it having to be faster than a human, that is not guaranteed. Consider this, a horse carrying a 200 LB male, a saddle, and other apparel probably won't run as fast as one with nothing on. The same thing applies here, he has two turrets, a crane, and small rockets (they provide a speed boost but it isn't innate, they run out quickly and only go in bursts.) this is a lot of equipment. So odds are, he would be moving pyro-medic speed as an average for gameplay reasons (smallest hitbox of any class).

In the end this does take away your logic that he would be primarily for objectives and harassment, leaving him more open. And as for what a class "seems" to be like. Don't. The fact that they have labeled classes as offense/defense/support means very little, as they can be used in many many ways. Woodstock can attest to the fact that medics aren't just a support role. And heavies are just as good on the offensive as the defensive with a coordinated team.

As for the Helper being a useless addition. Players get health from: medpacks, medics, dropped sandwiches, lockers. Ammo comes from fallen weapons, crates, lockers, dispensers. Why should something not be included because it does something another class does, if it does so in a different fashion? Spies and Snipers are actually very similar to one another, they usually focus on a specific target, and by using their advantage can dispose of it with minimal combat from that person, an instant kill. Soldiers and Demomen both fly through the air using explosives. This is no reason to take it away.

You know, that sounded very similar to the last paragraph or two in my first post. Are you sure you read the whole thing before posting?

 

[Idol]

The civilian is not a class in my eyes, so I did not include him, he is more of a gimmick. It would be like me putting in the payload cart as a class.

Apparently you were never much for the Hunted maps, or Betrayed, or Hunted II. I was a regular on the Kali server and must say there was a measure of skill to playing the Prez. Sure, he was a gimmick on the TFC-Border map, but a good or bad prez in Hunted could make things a lot easier or harder for the Bodyguards team. However; your thread, your discussion, your rules. I'll not derail it any further.

So what's this about a TF2 class upgrade for the Payload cart? I hear one of the unlockables is going to be a guard dog.

 

[Maxy :3]

Valve should have the people pick the new class, instead of just giving us hints on what possibility it may be.

 

[opscomm]

Valve should have the people pick the new class, instead of just giving us hints on what possibility it may be.

I agree with this statement completely. Valve needs to listen to their community just a bit more. Right now they go with whatever the majority of the threads on the steam forums say, but they should really listen to all ideas. They need to create Blog entries with polls where people can comment about what they think would make the game better, not worse.

 

[Zopy]

You know, that sounded very similar to the last paragraph or two in my first post. Are you sure you read the whole thing before posting?

I actually didn't

 

[Whisker Biscuit]

Would be pretty cool to have a dog with a flamethrower on its back..the PDA would have a dog can or something, and deploying the dog can puts dog food over an area. The dog comes in and goes around eating the dog food while the flamethrower occasionally goes off, essentially becoming a moving, spychecking dog that stays in a small area and spychecks every so often. Once the dog food is gone the dog flies up into the air through the map and into the skybox, where it does some dog dance and scares everyone into thinking that king kong will come.

 

[Hodgepodge]

I feel like the guard dog would be kinda a hybrid class that would lean more toward the support side if it were to be implemented into the game. The reason is that it really has no attack, i mean the hanger seems like a dual smg to me and the hater would be entirely useless because the guard dog only has 125 hp....

 

[opscomm]

Would be pretty cool to have a dog with a flamethrower on its back..the PDA would have a dog can or something, and deploying the dog can puts dog food over an area. The dog comes in and goes around eating the dog food while the flamethrower occasionally goes off, essentially becoming a moving, spychecking dog that stays in a small area and spychecks every so often. Once the dog food is gone the dog flies up into the air through the map and into the skybox, where it does some dog dance and scares everyone into thinking that king kong will come.

This is excellent, I love this idea. It is freaking hilarious.