How good is "Good"?
- Thread starter batlbot
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I think you are over-thinking the game. It is just that, a game, relax and who cares, as long as you are having fun.
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...u guys dont get it
a good player plays for the team
skill has nothing to do with a "good" player in a teambeased game
whats the name of the game we play `?```TEAMfortress 2
a good player plays for the team
skill has nothing to do with a "good" player in a teambeased game
whats the name of the game we play `?```TEAMfortress 2
KPD is overrated.
But, KPD still counts.
For those of you who know me, know that I advocate a kills per minute (KPM) policy.
Essentially - the better player kills more people more often.
For example, my KPD is usually right around 3.0 or so. However, my KPM is right around 1.5 --an extremely high ratio (the old stats reflect this, the new ones don't as I've played medic much more, but that's neither here nor there).
there are plenty of people here who have a higher KPD than me (cliff, goretex, etc come to mind), but almost no one touches my 1.5 KPM. This is because I am very active and do not wait around for ubers and kritz's like many players with higher KPD's do. You will also rarely see me with a medic because I put them and myself in dangerous situations sometimes and they know this, and I dont blame them. I constantly put pressure on the opposition. A relentless assault if you will.
A person with a 7 to 1 kpd ratio but a 1.2 kpm ratio doesnt impress me. This just tells me he's waiting and hiding. He's not as active as he should be. The higher your KPD is the higher your KPM should be if you are playing well. These players should have much higher KPM ratios but don't, for a variety of reasons.
My apologies if I come across as brash or rude, I am just speaking from my experience in competitve play.
Cheers,
Joey "Opeth!"
But, KPD still counts.
For those of you who know me, know that I advocate a kills per minute (KPM) policy.
Essentially - the better player kills more people more often.
For example, my KPD is usually right around 3.0 or so. However, my KPM is right around 1.5 --an extremely high ratio (the old stats reflect this, the new ones don't as I've played medic much more, but that's neither here nor there).
there are plenty of people here who have a higher KPD than me (cliff, goretex, etc come to mind), but almost no one touches my 1.5 KPM. This is because I am very active and do not wait around for ubers and kritz's like many players with higher KPD's do. You will also rarely see me with a medic because I put them and myself in dangerous situations sometimes and they know this, and I dont blame them. I constantly put pressure on the opposition. A relentless assault if you will.
A person with a 7 to 1 kpd ratio but a 1.2 kpm ratio doesnt impress me. This just tells me he's waiting and hiding. He's not as active as he should be. The higher your KPD is the higher your KPM should be if you are playing well. These players should have much higher KPM ratios but don't, for a variety of reasons.
My apologies if I come across as brash or rude, I am just speaking from my experience in competitve play.
Cheers,
Joey "Opeth!"
Last edited:
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I've thought about voicing my opinions on the matter at hand but then I realized what I had to say didn't really reflect on the OP as much as it did on how I view the game.
If someone wants to "overthink" the game, go for it.
If someone wants to just kick back and have fun, go for it. (Can I say "sniperfest" and "spyfest"? Happens all the time.)
If someone wants to be a stats junkie, go for it.
If someone doesn't care about stats, great.
If someone wants to camp vents, go for it.
Isn't one of the points of eGO "play the game how you want to, not how we want to you?" That's why we don't have class limits.
So, in that spirit, I repeat: "If you want to 'over think' the game, go for it."
If you want to spend hours in a message board trying to figure out what other people consider to be a good player, no problem.
When you're done, jump in a server. Odds are, I'll be around to heal you.
@ Green
While TF2 is very much a team based game, skill still matters. You can have a bunch of medics and soldiers and heavys and still lose terribly if you're getting outgunned. One great player can turn an entire team around. It's a problem actually. I avoid playing certain classes (demoman) because it has become too "easy" to win with unless the team I'm playing with is very poor and disorganized. It's not a fun class for me to play anymore really, at least not in large 32 man pubs, its just way too powerful.
While TF2 is very much a team based game, skill still matters. You can have a bunch of medics and soldiers and heavys and still lose terribly if you're getting outgunned. One great player can turn an entire team around. It's a problem actually. I avoid playing certain classes (demoman) because it has become too "easy" to win with unless the team I'm playing with is very poor and disorganized. It's not a fun class for me to play anymore really, at least not in large 32 man pubs, its just way too powerful.
So your real question is, what measures skill in TF2.
Short answer: Completing the map objective.
Long answer: it depends.
Each class has a unique set of skills that need to be mastered to be considered skilled. However, they are many class-independent skills in TF2 to be mastered.
Your basic FPS skill-set is aim, movement, and reaction. With these three skills, you can be a competent player in any FPS, including TF2.
But each FPS you play has it's own unique set of skills that needs to be learned. In the case of TF2, you need to leanr how the game works, you've got to learn to play your class, you need to learn the maps you play on, you need to learn the tricks to your map type, and you need to learn to work with your team.
For instance, let's say you're a Pyro on BlackMesa (isn't everyone?).
To be considered skilled:
To be truly skilled, you know how the game physics work, everything about the map, everything about the game type, everything about the class you play, everything about the classes other people play, and everything about how both teams work together. Then you have to train your physical and mental reflexes to handle all that at once.
Short answer: Completing the map objective.
Long answer: it depends.
Each class has a unique set of skills that need to be mastered to be considered skilled. However, they are many class-independent skills in TF2 to be mastered.
Your basic FPS skill-set is aim, movement, and reaction. With these three skills, you can be a competent player in any FPS, including TF2.
But each FPS you play has it's own unique set of skills that needs to be learned. In the case of TF2, you need to leanr how the game works, you've got to learn to play your class, you need to learn the maps you play on, you need to learn the tricks to your map type, and you need to learn to work with your team.
For instance, let's say you're a Pyro on BlackMesa (isn't everyone?).
To be considered skilled:
- You need to learn where the control points are.
- You need to learn all the routes to get from one point to another.
- You need to learn how long it takes to capture each point.
- You need to learn how to work with most of your team.
- You need to learn how the other team is playing.
- You need to learn all the ammo/health locations.
- You need to learn all the hiding spots on the map where you can sit safely for a few seconds.
- You need to learn how to play Pyro to the point where most of the time, you kill anyone else that comes gunning for you. This involves:
- Learning how the flamethrower works.
- Learning to compression blast. This involves:
- Learning to deflect projectiles.
- Learning to juggle people when needed.
- Learning when to put out fires.
- Learning when you should knock people back.
- Learning to blow people up into the fans.
- Learning the shotgun/flare gun (and all subset skills).
- Learning the axetinguisher/axe (and all subset skills).
- Learning how long someone burns after you've set them on fire.
- Learning to dodge, weave, and get to people you want to kill.
- Learning ambush spots.
- Learning alternate routes to get to people/places.
- Learning to spy-check.
- Learning how fast you go through ammo.
- Learning how to kill all other classes.
- You need to learn how all the other classes work now, so your pyro knows what all the limitations are and how best to kill them
- You need to learn where other classes tend to be on the map.
- Basically, you need to learn what the Pyro can and can't do.
To be truly skilled, you know how the game physics work, everything about the map, everything about the game type, everything about the class you play, everything about the classes other people play, and everything about how both teams work together. Then you have to train your physical and mental reflexes to handle all that at once.
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A good player is a person who can stop an alien invasion by using a crowbar and his mind!
k/d ratio isn't everything, but its a decent way to measure skill, alittle bit anyways.
example: demo man w cith a medic w crit uber camps a busy chokepoint and racks up a 112-2 k/d ratio. does that make him the greatest demo man ever?
example: demoman roams between 2 different choke points taking out peeps while they rush in, no medic with him, racks up a 112-47 k/d ratio. Is he the greatest demo ever?
(for frisky) example: Spy sits in the corner C&Ding for 10 mins when he finally jumps down and bs's a sniper. Is he a credit 2 team?
example: demo man w cith a medic w crit uber camps a busy chokepoint and racks up a 112-2 k/d ratio. does that make him the greatest demo man ever?
example: demoman roams between 2 different choke points taking out peeps while they rush in, no medic with him, racks up a 112-47 k/d ratio. Is he the greatest demo ever?
(for frisky) example: Spy sits in the corner C&Ding for 10 mins when he finally jumps down and bs's a sniper. Is he a credit 2 team?
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Now THIS is the answer we are looking for, ladies and gentlemen.
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While I agree that a good player is a player that plays for the team and all of that, for the purpose of discussion here are my thoughts.
NOTE: I only play PL server, so these stats are based on Gold Rush, Badwater, and HooDoo, ONLY
NOTE: These numbers assume that the TEAMS ARE EVEN. Stacked teams result in stacked numbers, so think about what you could achieve if the other team was as good as your team and no one is getting rolled.
Kills per death:
Average 1:1
Good 2:1
Great 4:1
Godly 5+:1
Points per Hour:
Average 80
Good 100
Great 125
Godly 150+
Points per life is too hard because it doesn't tell me what others are getting and what I am even getting each life. Also, it varies too much with class. A sniper should have many many points per life, where a pyro can be just as effective by rushing into 5+ enemies and forcing them to retreat without killing anything.
I rarely see people with over 150 points in an hour. I've seen 200 points in an hour a couple of times, but this happens when great players have great moments, and someone is healing them almost constantly
I agree with this. And not just because it qualifies me as godly
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I understand pretty fully the concept of playing for fun, and K
is less important than teamplay. that said, I'm a stats junkie. I used to be in the top 50 with the old system, and I've just started playing again, and am almost back in the top 1000. The kind of analysis you want to get is the type I think about all the time.
in terms of K, because I'm just sorta learning how to play again, I'm at about 2:1. average; my stats don't reflect it yet, because back when I was really learning to play again, I was down at about 0.60. I used to be much higher, and on good nights, I've hit 3-4.
I would also like to put this point forward:
Yes, teamplay is more important than kill ratio. However, the two really aren't mutually exclusive. really, the more of their team that's dead, the less you have to worry about. I remember way back when I was really good, I got a 41:0 ratio on turbine as a demo. That was hopping between camping the garage door, their intel, and vents. I capped the intel once in that period as well. However, mostly, I was camping the door. Now, the interesting thing about it is that I killed LOTS of people, and quickly, often more than one at once, and held mid long enough to get engies set up basically by myself. Yes, I was holding a door on my own, and not rushing intel with the team, but in doing so, I solidified our position at mid and ultimately was a large factor in our victory.
Who's to say I should have been rushing intel and getting myself killed instead of what I was doing?
Generally, granted, the above scenario doesn't happen. I was lucky, and had many close scrapes. That said, I think I was justified in my role there, and I don't particularly think I was being selfish by camping either.
Just goes to show; it's all about perspective; sometimes campers are useless, but sometimes they certainly aren't.
is less important than teamplay. that said, I'm a stats junkie. I used to be in the top 50 with the old system, and I've just started playing again, and am almost back in the top 1000. The kind of analysis you want to get is the type I think about all the time.in terms of K
, because I'm just sorta learning how to play again, I'm at about 2:1. average; my stats don't reflect it yet, because back when I was really learning to play again, I was down at about 0.60. I used to be much higher, and on good nights, I've hit 3-4.I would also like to put this point forward:
Yes, teamplay is more important than kill ratio. However, the two really aren't mutually exclusive. really, the more of their team that's dead, the less you have to worry about. I remember way back when I was really good, I got a 41:0 ratio on turbine as a demo. That was hopping between camping the garage door, their intel, and vents. I capped the intel once in that period as well. However, mostly, I was camping the door. Now, the interesting thing about it is that I killed LOTS of people, and quickly, often more than one at once, and held mid long enough to get engies set up basically by myself. Yes, I was holding a door on my own, and not rushing intel with the team, but in doing so, I solidified our position at mid and ultimately was a large factor in our victory.
Who's to say I should have been rushing intel and getting myself killed instead of what I was doing?
Generally, granted, the above scenario doesn't happen. I was lucky, and had many close scrapes. That said, I think I was justified in my role there, and I don't particularly think I was being selfish by camping either.
Just goes to show; it's all about perspective; sometimes campers are useless, but sometimes they certainly aren't.
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A team player is a good player.
If that's capping points, capping flags, killing the other team, or building a sentry nest for your team. =]
If that's capping points, capping flags, killing the other team, or building a sentry nest for your team. =]
./thread
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A good player is someone who leads a team while having a good K/D ratio. I take tf2 as a fun game and not as much as a competitive game unless you in some sort of tornament.
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