dragonAgeReview++;

D.T.S.

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There's so many Dragon Age: Origins reviews out there that it seems like writing one somehow gets you on St. Peter's good side when you finally get to the Pearly Gates.

So here's mine.

Before I start though, if you clicked this thread, then you should buy this game. Pretty much that simple.

In case you're waking up from a 28 Days Later coma, Dragon Age: Origins is a western fantasy RPG, and it's from Bioware. Now nuts and bolts.

Dragon Age: Origins

What it is, yo

Dragon Age is a RPG that focuses primarily on character development in a way few other games have managed. When I say character development, I don't mean leveling up. I mean the character you play, and his/her companions develop just the way relationships and polaroid photos do. Over time and with increasing insight and information into what's going on.

You learn things about your party members. You grow to love, pity, hate, trust, mistrust, desire, despise, please and displease almost every single character. The setting is deep enough if you enjoy pausing the game to read through your codex of information (eg: Mass Effect) but it truly comes alive through interaction with the NPCs.

You will feel almost every emotion there is in the human range...on just a single character. Each character's background and dialogue is well scripted, and the voice acting is right at the top of the industry. Numerous celeb voices abound, including Tim Curry and that hot and sassy chick from Stargate and Farscape.

Which is good, because you'll be talking quite a bit. Thankfully, the dialogue is usually right at the right length, and character information is doled out through naturally rhythmic conversations. Rare were the times I felt I had simply exhausted conversation options to pick from and had to say "Ok, goodbye." When conversation ends, especially in the beginning portions of the game, it's usually because you've exhausted all the potential small talk and obvious topics that can occur between two near strangers.

And the characters may feel like strangers to you at first. They certainly did to me. I was a couple of hours in before I got to know characters well enough to have a pretty definite idea of what would piss them off and make them happy.

Because you have to keep 'em happy, or they'll leave your butt behind. Just like in real life, if you abuse your friends and coworkers, and continually make choices they're morally opposed to...they'll slip into walking shoes.

Which brings me one of the best things about what this game is. An absolute masterpiece of the "ethical decision" bit.

This is no Fable or Black & White, where you're easily able to metagame and pick the "Earn Good Points" or "Earn Evil Points" decisions. There's no obvious indication that what you're choosing, saying, or doing is right or wrong. It's up to you.

But rest assured, people react, and you can change the game drastically. My first run through I ended up killing an NPC that was so absolutely opposed to a decision I made that they felt they were forced to attempt to kill me to stop it.

I later realized that had I chose differently, that person would have joined my party as a permanent and powerful member.

To clarify, I wasn't playing through as an evil character. The character I had to kill wasn't an evil person. We were both good guys. We both had radically different ideas about what was the "good" course of action.

And it doesn't feel forced, stilted, obvious or overdone. Dragon Age is going to throw your character into some of the most difficult moral quandaries human beings have ever faced.

If someone is happy, but the reality they perceive is not what exists...do you force them to confront reality? ...Even if it may destroy them? Do you let them live on, though it's living a completely fabricated lie?

What is the greater good? And where do you draw the line at protecting it? Will you protect thousands of potentially innocent people, even if it means your actions might kill a few other innocents?

Do you help a potential ally because your need for their support is great, even if they require you to do something that you're not sure is right?

This game is going to force you to make choices that will leave you a little uncomfortable, at least once. Unless you're a sociopath. I can't stress this point enough, as it's one of the few times that moral choices are so ambiguously presented and have such an impact on the continuing story.

And all that is possible because of the expert way that characters are handled. When they are brought to life as beautifully as they are here, the setting lives and breathes around them.

What it sure isn't!

Short.

Anyone who has a completion-per-days-from-release ratio that even approaches .5 is either lying or does not exist. If they do exist, then they are dead or stuck in a temporal infinity loop (trust me, I watch Star Trek). Or most likely, they're stuck in a temporal infinity loop AND dead.

This game is long. Especially when compared to most of the recent console releases. Thankfully, the game is good enough that you'll probably be OK with that.

It isn't quick. Combat takes awhile, because...

This aint no ice cream social. Unless you're planning on going easy mode (and if so, have the decency to lie about it), you're going to have pause the game and assign orders in combat. A system exists for pre-programming your NPCs to respond to situations with certain actions (like FFXII except there's no need to hunt down variables before you can assign them), but as the difficulty levels increase you'll only be able to use those for general all-purpose stuff and for emergencies. Otherwise, you're gonna lose teh battlez.

You might preset a character to always activate a combat stance as soon as fights begin, or to immediately heal any character below 25% health, but if you hope to sit back and let the AI do even half the work then you'll be disappointed.

That being said, the combat on normal mode isn't really hard. Trust me, I'm no tactical genius and I made it through alright. You'll die a few times, and some of the fights are suitably difficult (and awesome) but eventually you get the hang of it. If you find it too easy, you can up the difficulty level at any time via the in-game options menu.

It's not for kids in any way/shape/form. It's violent, and adult themes abound. Standard M rating stuff and Dragon Age: Origins deserves it.

Secondly, I have the feeling that much of the game's powerful moral choice portion would be lost/over the head of someone who doesn't have at least close to two decades under their belt (exceptions noted.)

There are just somethings that you really don't "get" until you've had quite a few years practice, like how to drive and how to swear. Sure you can do it at any age, but not properly. Same goes with making difficult decisions that you might never be sure are the right ones. Some of that magic that I felt might be resisted by those who haven't yet had to make a really tough, important, grown up decision without an authority figure there to tell them which was the right way. And with people counting on the decision being the right one.

Ok, off of my "look how grown up I think I am" soap box.

What I care to gripe about, because nothing's perfect.

There are only a few things to complain about, and they're pretty minor.

A few times (ie: fewer times than I have fingers, and I have a normal amount) I was unsure about a dialogue option because I wasn't really sure what tone my character was going to be speaking in. It's that classic problem with IMs and texting, where if you're not careful in your diction you might (or might not) come off as a total ass. There are a handful of times (throughout an easily 20+ hour game, so again not a bad ratio) where I wasn't sure if an option was going to be said insultingly or compassionately.

With reservation...the "you plus three npc's" party limit. Don't get me wrong, the game plays perfectly with four people in a party, and balance is great. It would probably ruin the game to raise the cap, especially when your mages become just super uber (and they do). No, I wanted a larger cap limit because I wanted more time with more characters! For the first time in an RPG I wasn't deciding who to put in my party because of stats and abilities, but rather because of the great conversations that happen between them. Trust me, when that menu pops up that says "Gather party and venture forth?" and you're forced to select only three of your brave companions...you'll know what I mean.

Big thing that I originally left out! The DRM. I'm perfectly OK with requiring a disc to be in the drive (I know it's annoying or a matter of principle for some people, but it's 2009...I only use my CD/DVD drive for the current non-direct download game I'm obsessed with) and I'm totally cool with entering a CD-KEY/Serial number.

What I'm not cool with is the fact that if my internet is down, I can't play any of my saved campaigns that have done/incorporated any DLC...at all.

I don't like that. If my internet was down for some reason, I wouldn't be able to play any of my current saves, as they all incorporate the free (with entry of the promo code in my retail release) DLC for "The Shale." I've gotten the error only once, and I blinked, clicked "Resume" again and everything was smooth.

It's not likely to be an issue, just based on the fact that my internet is fairly reliable. But if it were to go down, I haven't seen or heard a way to load save files with DLC. Maybe someone else knows, but I don't except for downloading a pirated and cracked copy.

As it is EA, I kind of expected a little worse, but I still don't like this at all.


--------------

tl;dr

Just buy it. It's Bioware for God's sake.
 
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I agree with the above review, mages are pretty OP, I did an Entropy/Primal AoE Arcane warrior & hes a monster. 4 mass AoE, 3 directional AoE & 2 missile AoE spells. On top of that, he can wear the heaviest tank armor in the game and hit almost as hard as my main tank. & on top of that he has curses that up the incoming damage to the target & can negate their healing ability. Did I mention that he has 2 stuns (1 targeted & 1 AoE)?

Sadly I didnt plan for the character to be so easy, I just went with what seemed like itd be fun for me.

Overall its a fantastic game, up there with the classics like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Arcanum, & Fallout (The originals).

Plenty of side quests to keep you busy for weeks, good story, interesting characters & great artwork. If youre a true RPG fan its def worth buying.

**Note: No, I do not consider Borderlands to be an RPG.
 
I agree with the above review, mages are pretty OP, I did an Entropy/Primal AoE Arcane warrior & hes a monster. 4 mass AoE, 3 directional AoE & 2 missile AoE spells. On top of that, he can wear the heaviest tank armor in the game and hit almost as hard as my main tank. & on top of that he has curses that up the incoming damage to the target & can negate their healing ability. Did I mention that he has 2 stuns (1 targeted & 1 AoE)?

Sadly I didnt plan for the character to be so easy, I just went with what seemed like itd be fun for me.

Overall its a fantastic game, up there with the classics like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Arcanum, & Fallout (The originals).

Plenty of side quests to keep you busy for weeks, good story, interesting characters & great artwork. If youre a true RPG fan its def worth buying.

**Note: No, I do not consider Borderlands to be an RPG.

The power of mages in this game is something that I can't be sure about until I've played through a couple of times.

Right now, I'm of the opinion that they're probably OP. This might be intended, but I'm not sure.

It seems like general party setup and class abilities mirror the philosophy behind Dungeons & Dragons Fourth Edition. Whether you love or hate it for pen and paper, it works reasonably well for a video game.

In case you're not aware, magic users in DnD 4E are primarily used as "controllers" to help the average party (ie: a party of four characters) survive fights that would normally defeat them because of an overwhelming number of enemies.

The mages in DAO definitely do that, as some fights approach unwinnable without them. There are just too many enemies for a quartet of melee and ranged characters to take care of. Flanking (and the increased damage and chance for critical hits) plays such a large role in DAO that I found myself at a loss in fights against significantly superior numbers if I didn't have a mage around.

Those AoE spells are great, and I'm looking forward to my next play through, this time as a mage and on the most difficult setting, to see how punishing the game truly can be.

Friendly fire is not to be taken lightly in this game, so anyone who hasn't played this and is reading along, don't get the idea that the OPness of mages negates tactical spacing and maneuvering. Dropping a fireball into a grand melee will quickly cause you to whisper "Let God sort them out."

As AoE damage is negated or reduced on easier settings, I'm guessing one of two things are in store for the future of mages in DAO.

1) On the hardest difficulty, enemies are tough enough, hit hard enough, and penetrate enough armor that mages won't be as OP as they are now. Mages do have that chance to be interrupted when taking damage. The ability I have to move my mages around the battlefield to drop AoE spells (especially those lovely cone spells) will be diminished when they start dropping faster and get interrupted more often.

2) Bioware releases a patch to fix game balance, much as they have already done with the first patch. The first patch made easy mode much easier, and normal mode a little bit easier. If they're willing to do that, they might patch and make hard modes harder, providing it bears out that mages are truly OP. Even a tiny thing like increasing the AoE on spells would have pretty limiting effects that would only impact that harder modes, since friendly fire is drastically reduced/ignored for the easier modes.

And of course, since the dev tools have been released, there's always the hope that people will churn out some high quality mods for this game, in which mages are not OP (again, assuming that it turns out that I think they're OP in their current form).

Which reminds me, if you're playing this on console, please let this be an example of how much better some (not all, rabid console fans) gaming experiences can be on PC. I know that cost of a good machine to run this game is high, but when I asked a coworker how he selected party members and abilities, it sounded super sucky. Radial menus that pop up when holding down trigger buttons.... shudder.

That, and he said he was pretty sure he couldn't zoom, just rotate and tilt the camera. To be honest, I don't think I'd like the combat if I had to go through radial menus to use abilities, or if I couldn't zoom out to move behind an enemy instead of targeting their model.

Mod tools which equal free dlc, plus zoom and an actually usable interface. RTS isn't the only genre that mouse and keyboard work better with.

FPS is simply a matter of personal taste, though I know most will disagree.
 
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Thinking about it gamewise it probably is intentional that mages are overpowered. Why else would the templars keep a close eye on them and lock them up?
*Minor spoiler, nothing special. Common knowledge.

Great review, I agree with your points on that, and speaking of DAO, this review made me want to play it more.
 
Thinking about it gamewise it probably is intentional that mages are overpowered. Why else would the templars keep a close eye on them and lock them up?
*Minor spoiler, nothing special. Common knowledge.

Great review, I agree with your points on that, and speaking of DAO, this review made me want to play it more.

Thanks, I meant to mention that bit about mages being OP possibly being an intended piece of the setting/theme.

I wonder how much it would irk us in the back of our minds, maybe where we're not even aware of it, if mages weren't truly powerful, especially early game. It seems that at time you can't go two conversations without hearing someone (or some THING, knowing this game...) mentioning the Chantry or the Templar's opinion of mages.

It's just far to central of a theme to really let them be "just adequate."

Otherwise, somewhere deep (or not so deep for the folks brighter then I) in our skulls we'd be thinking, "Well this is stupid, mages aren't any more powerful then my guys with swords, and obviously nobody gives a damn who runs around with a whole backpack of those."

No, I think that mages might have to be capable of some awesome firepower in order for the setting to work.

Thinking that just makes more sense when I consider the friendly fire negation on easier levels.

Just to be sure I'll try to run through the game at its most difficult with three mages and a melee in the party.

If I can't, mages aren't OP. Or I just suck.

"The choice is yours." - Michael Scott.
 
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hey has anyone thought about building a "battlemage" with heavy armor so that will negate the falling in battle so often since their armors are based on their magic ability will help with armor unlike warriors and rouges
 
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hey has anyone thought about building a "battlemage" with heavy armor so that will negate the falling in battle so often since their armors are based on their magic abitlty not their strength unlike warriors and rouges

By all means, share your ideas on how you think it would need to be done.
 
By all means, share your ideas on how you think it would need to be done.

give me some time to make a new character and test it out but i think the best combo for that would be half spirit/creation type

spirit magic so u can get the spell which allows u to animate dead to help with the dps, also spirit magic has stuns and damage over time spells which will be useful and spend less cast time than major damage spells

creation magic for if u get in trouble of course as well as the wards, mana regen and increased attack

add in the rock armor and spirit armor from the primal and mage lines and u be set.

Find a dagger which has 2 or 3 slots for runes to increase either resistance or damage


these are my theories at least i will need to go check it out cause it is gonna be tough balancing out dex,strength,magic, and will to make it useful but the armor will be much tougher to take out at least

i have an archer rogue i am finishing atm trying to get the 75% side quests and arrow of slaying kills done and its tougher than it looks

then i will test out this theory
 
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I seriously hope they don't nerf mages for the exact reason D.T.S. stated. The whole Templars keeping mages locked down wouldn't make sense otherwise.

You could make a battlemage but you need to have a certain strength to be able to wear the heavier armor. You'd have to balance strength with your magic and willpower attributes which would ultimately lower your spell's power and you'd have less mana to cast spells with. It's a trade-off that some might think worth it. Personally I wouldn't go that route because I like to keep my mage out of the middle the action and leave the melee fighting to the guys with swords.
 
I seriously hope they don't nerf mages for the exact reason D.T.S. stated. The whole Templars keeping mages locked down wouldn't make sense otherwise.

You could make a battlemage but you need to have a certain strength to be able to wear the heavier armor. You'd have to balance strength with your magic and willpower attributes which would ultimately lower your spell's power and you'd have less mana to cast spells with. It's a trade-off that some might think worth it. Personally I wouldn't go that route because I like to keep my mage out of the middle the action and leave the melee fighting to the guys with swords.



while this is true the best light armor is only 20 strength (side quest drakeskin armor) and i put my rogues in it all the time and they do all right those with the benefits of the armor spells makes up for the difference
 
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So is this game REALLY worth it?

Here's the method I use to figure out if a game is going to be worth it. It's pretty simple.

1) Is it going to be an enjoyable experience?

If the answer is no, obviously I don't buy it. This game is definitely enjoyable, provided you like RPGs, and western style RPGs at that. If you're a RPG-only fan, this *might* not be for you. However, the game is so polished and well crafted that I think you would still enjoy it.

2) Is there enough play time to justify the cost?

This is a flexible answer, and largely depends how strong of a response I think I'll have to question #1. However, your potential enjoyment of the game aside, there is a lot to do in this game. A whole lot. Even playing through once (and quickly), your investment per hour is going to be in range of about a single dollar. Provided you buy it at the standard rate in the USA.

Also, this game, unlike many RPGs, has an incredibly high replay value for single player. The malleability of the storyline will keep you coming back to figure out just what else might happen, and just how different things might be at the end.

Trust me, it will be difficult to take your mind off of it, and you'll find yourself wanting to go back and play when you're talking about it. Every time I'm posting about DAO I find myself wanting to stop writing the post and just ALT-TAB back into the game.

There are just so many ways to do the things you can do in this game.

If you guy by those two questions, then indeed my friend it is a worthy game.

while this is true the best light armor is only 20 strength (side quest drakeskin armor) and i put my rogues in it all the time and they do all right those with the benefits of the armor spells makes up for the difference

So that's about three levels of stat points going into strength, right? I can't remember what starting statistics are for mages.

Here's the thing though, rogues do just fine in the drakeskin armor, but I wonder how much of that is because they don't get interrupted and generally stay close enough to the tank to not draw aggro. At least that's the way I've been using my rogues.

Enemies also act much more aggressively in harder difficulty modes, and might be much better at taking down mages in a coordinated way. No matter what armor you're in, if you've got three mobs on you it's not a good thing.

Additionally, no one has mentioned yet mentioned the decreased effectiveness of mages that's already coded into the harder difficulties. Spell durations are noticeably shorter on hard mode, and are worse on nightmare.

Also, and I'm not sure precisely what this entails, but in the harder difficulties "enemies are more resistant to some types of damage." If someone has a detailed explanation of exactly what that means, I'd love to hear it. I'm guessing that it pretty much entails the elemental, nature, and spirit stuff.

However, it could just be that enemies are more resistant to melee/range type damages (ie: piercing/slashing/whatever) and that the nerf on mages at higher levels is taken care of simply by reducing buff/debuff duration, and increasing the saving throws of enemies.

If my stun, sleep, and paralyze spells don't last nearly as long as they do in normal mode, you can bet that my mages are going to be super busy keeping the swarm down.

Additionally, outside of a pure numbers thing, enemy tactics just seem to be better on the harder modes. They're more aggressive, they're pushier, and more relentless. If you haven't noticed it, switch the game back down to easy for a bit and you'll see just how much more breathing room you have on the battlefield. The difference (to me) seems to be pretty marked. So outside of just a pure numbers and stats and nerfs discussion, the game remains difficult.

Even if the mage isn't tweaked at all, it's possible that you'll need every scrap of power they bring to power, and your intellect and strategy, just to survive.

Looking forward to trying it.
 
i never said it was gonna be an easy make and my rogues draw tons of agro all the time even on easy and normal

i think i am gonna try to build my mage on easy or normal first before i think about trying him on hard or nightmare which is brutal to say the least unlike easy. (i beat easy campaign without dieing once getting the medal..........after a few trys)


the battle mage concept is not something they meant for the game i think specially at such a low cap level it would be more of a hybrid than anything else something u can switch out for normal mage actions if needed.

however when it comes to stats there are many stat gear items which would be killer for a battle mage such as the spellward from the camp, the lifegiver from the drawfs i think, the helm of hano(whatever) from shales sidequest which add stats needed for this concept (mostly strength,magic,willpower, and constitution) i had my first mages will at like almost 50 with the gear he had on yet i think he actually was like 37

so its possible but will it be effective i will have to wait and see
 
Your rogues draw a ton of aggro? Hmmm, maybe I'm playing mine wrong. They might not be doing as much damage as they should.

The battlemage concept is interesting. Can you be more specific about what you'd like the class to be able to do? It'd be easier for me to think about the building and equipping of the character that way.
 
Your rogues draw a ton of aggro? Hmmm, maybe I'm playing mine wrong. They might not be doing as much damage as they should.

The battlemage concept is interesting. Can you be more specific about what you'd like the class to be able to do? It'd be easier for me to think about the building and equipping of the character that way.


usually my rogues are using daggers with 2 or 3 rune slots backstabbing and doing about 40 damage a shot towards the end of the game, add in their poisons which add more damage and the whirlwind and punisher attacks late in the game i need two tanks usually to keep aggro off of them


this concept should at least be using light armor, as well as have a staff and a dagger shield for their two weapon sets. he would be more of a dps attacker using their armor spells as damage over time spells. he is gonna need stat adding items because levels alone will not be able to get things like constitution and willpower up high enough. while leveling u will have to focus more on strength magic and a bit of dex.


if a mage takes the arcane warrior spec. he/she substitutes their magic skill instead of their strength for armor use making the battlemage concept more believable
 
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I stand corrected. There is a battlemage route if you go with corresponding specialization. You can chose that option and it switches the strength requirement with a magic one so mages can wear heavier armor. (I didn't read the last sentence in jarjar's post before writing this.)

This brings up another question... Is it only the weight of the weapons that determines stamina drain or does a heavy armor drain stamina faster than light armor? If armor does drain stamina then does a mage use more mana depending on the armor worn?
 
The arcane warrior route will allow you to sub in your magic score instead of strength and allow you to wear heavier armor and hit harder with weapons.

The greater your fatigue is (which is increased by the heavier the armor is, and yes it impacts mana as well) the less you'll be able to cast.

I think it's a viable option for turning a mage into a melee DD, but I'm not sure if it makes the option of wearing the heavier armors attractive. I have a friend that runs around as an arcane warrior in the juggernaut armor, but only keeps a couple of buffs on him before he's out of mana.

I'll have to ask him for the stat specifics.
 
i am almost done with my toon i am working on be done with her in about a day or two then i will take this route and start testing i believe it will be more on the other gear not base armor but the neckless, and rings that will be crucial

to wear those types of gear however i will not be giving my mage massive armor that does not seem right at all i am thinking the heavy or medium armor from the dragon armor quest
 
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Arcane Warriors are designed to be massively buffed armored juggernauts, fighting with melee weapons and using sustained abilities to regain health.

Arcane Warrior / Blood Mage is one of the best combinations.
Quote from the Bioware forums:

I have to say that AW+BM is amazing. I went all Magic as well. Well, just a few points to get mana up
in to a certain level to be able to run with all the sustained spells that I wanted.
I ran with constant Death Magic, Rock Armor, Arcane Shield, Misama (wow), as well as the sustained from the BM and AW lines.

I clicked Blood Magic on to cast then clicked off to heal either by potions or letting Death Magic leach what I had killed.

*Hint* Having super high Magic makes low level potions work really well.

As long as you don't get dispelled, you can solo on nightmare. It takes a while to get through some groups though.
Crowd control spells other than ones in the BM line are sometimes needed.

Arcane warriors are the single most powerful class in the game; I know. My first character was developed into one, and she OWNED. :biggrin:

Elana at level 18.


Second quote:
I only just now switched to Nightmare because Hard mode was too easy, and I'm building him as stack Magic.
When I see I'm about to get a new sustained ability, but don't have enough mana stack Willpower.
I basically don't have mana with Shimmering Shield, so I stack sustained abilities, so far I have
Rock Armor, Frost Weapons, Death Magic, Miasma, Arcane Shield, Spell Wisp, Shimmering Shield,
and of course Combat magic, notibly I also have the last talent of the Mage tree to boost
melee damage, and I think the staff basic attack bonus works for weapons as well.
I'm about to get the last point in Spirit Healing, another sustained ability,
which is why I suggest taking it.
 

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