Hey guys =)

[arukawI niaL]

Hey eGO, got a chance to register here, name is Matt and I'm a pretty active regular on the Dust2 server, nice to meet you all

Got a quick question about the rulings on exit camping and in particular, so-called exit-camping Marines after they ascend the ladder from Marine spawn and walk onto the top roof area. If an Insurgent kills Marines after they reach the roof area, is it considered exit camping (using a gun, not an RPG or grenade)? A more general question also regarding exit camping, is it strictly against eGO rules or is it just frowned upon in the interest of fair play as the rules read? I apparently was told to please stop exit camping by an eG member very recently over text (since global chat is not enabled), but I did not see this message and was summarily kicked. This is not the first time I've been kicked for this incident (most of which with no warning besides the disconnection reason message) and while I know to follow an eG or eGO's ruling on this matter, the rulings on exit camping seem unclear and moreso follow the lines of an eG or eGO's words against my own. Again no disrespect towards any eGO member or rules, I'd just like the rules to be a little clearer.

Thank you for your time, eGO servers on INS are a lot of fun to play on and I hope this matter can be cleared up successfully.


edit: ooh, just read it's not okay to have clan tags inside of usernames, I apologize for not reading beforehand and if it can be removed that would be appreciated.
edit2: ah, found the request username bar in my profile, added a request.

 

[gruta]

i dont think this is unfair... i mean... beeing in the roof of marines spawn. cos they can come from they roof and get u from behind

 

[Skullmosher]

Since I'm the one who did the kicking, I think I should respond to this first. Comments from eGO's welcome, of course.

I generally overlook spawn camping and exit camping since most players don't indulge in it to the exclusion of all other game play. That is to say, they might grab a few cheap frags that way, but then they run off to cap points and play the game normally.

On Dust2 the Marines are highly vulnerable to an Insurgent exit camping on their upper/mid level, which is primarily what I see you doing. I give warnings privately with text (repeating two or three times hoping it is seen), then I warn in God Talk (big text across center of screen), and then I kick.

The problem is that someone with as much skill as you possess playing hide-and-seek with guns on the upperdeck detracts from everyone's fun and offends most people's sense of fairness.

I hope this clears things up.

 

[arukawI niaL]

I agree completely about Marines being vulnerable, basically on all exits, the exit points have been designed pretty poorly and even one Insurgent can completely overtake two or three of the Marine's exits if he's quick enough.

Unfortunately, dust2 as an INS map honestly is a pretty poor idea, with a lot of people (like me) usually ignoring capturing points unless our team is seriously backed into a corner and just going off killing people. It's mainly due to its small size, perhaps if the connection count was reduced to something lower, people might capture points more if they didn't have to worry about being killed 10 seconds from walking out of the spawn point. But I ramble, I'll save this for the dust2 suggestion thread.

I will admit I do attempt and go up the Marine's ladder more often than not, it's something I will do less often from now on. Generally speaking I will attempt it by rushing it first spawn and try it early on while people usually aren't sniping from the towers. By midgame to late game people are usually in it and it's harder. With that said I do get killed a lot of times attempting to get up there and I know a couple of Marine-side players in particular (THE_FIGURANT and bhosted to name a couple) that specifically look for players like me to stop me. I'm not condoning what type of tactics I employ but I would say that it's not always easy getting up there and there are many Marines who are able to kill me from the rooftop if I arrive there.

But I understand why you kicked me and I will adhere to any warnings/rulings eG/O members deliver. Thank you for posting in a civil and courteous manner, I know I've been harshly talked to by one eG member in the past over voice chat and it kind of disillusioned me.

 

[a pet rock]

I would also like to point out, that you are indeed correct that rules are not hard and fast. The obvious reason being players are incredibly creative in finding new ways of bending the rules. Really, all I look at is how fair it is to the players. If there's at least even chance for each team, I say it's fair. For instance, the marines will typically sit on those stairs looking down at Charlie. If he gets killed it's *technically* a spawnkill but he's camping it anyways so he's asking for it. If, however, a nade goes in I get more worried because the collateral damage could catch people who just spawned that second. Nothing sucks more than being killed immediately after the spawn protection wears off when you didn't even get a chance to shoot at them.

Follow whatever the admin present says, but also use good judgment and it shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for stopping by,

APR

 

[!EpIc fAiL!]

here is the way i admin this, if an INS is shooting from the whole in the wall or box on b side and killing marines as they jumps down and there spawn protection wears off that is spawn camping, if they are camping under it thats the same thing. As for the ladder if they just come off the ladder and dont start shooting then yes. but if they go to the tower from the top side or to the broken stairs, shoot and come back then its fair game. If they jump down from top side and are killed fair game, but if you shoot them before they can jump down then i consider it spawn camping. The ladder area that the INS can get to is ok as long as you dont go and shoot them as there protection wears off as they come from the a side hole.

 

[Burt_Reynolds]

Marines always have the roof option to avoid exit campers. Because of the size of the map I only w/k/b if the people are fireing/nading direclty into spawn. Keeping the teams even and fair is the best way to avoid exit camping and complaints about it. I dont think the top of alpha should be off limits for insurgents until they remove the ladder at Bravo and the boxes at alpha. I have ran into several occations were half the ins were up there and the marines were able to cap Charlie and Alpha and win the match.

 

[Turk]

dust 2 isn't designed for insurgency this is the biggest problem in that server heheheh

 

[Bloodcypher]

usually i think about it and the roof is ok because when they jump down they hav no spawn protction which exit camping some of the time is seeing a person with spawn protection,watching him leave,then shoot him.idk about the strict rulings XP

 

[Nymph]

If the marines can shoot back at you its fair game.. If spawn protection wears off its fair game thats the way I see it..

 

[Xigent]

This information is directly from the INS admin forum division

Spawn / Exit Camping

An enemy player should never be inside your spawn, but if they are killing a couple people outside of spawn AND there are other exits you do not need to start the W/K/B process immediately. If it gets to the point where you can not leave your spawn for an extended period or the server is starting to get disruptive because of it...take action. This is an area where common sense plays a big role. If you are not sure, think about it: Are there other exits you can take, could you slow down and locate the camper then just kill them, are other players finding ways to get around the problem?

 

[Aruka Schild]

Hi, this is Aruka of TypeKiLL clan. I usually use the name Agnishwatas when I play in the dust2 server. I came here after Numph suggested I registered on the forums because I believe I was banned wrongly and I want to actually have a say in this.

I was banned permanently about half an hour from making this post while I was playing on the dust server. Too fat to fish banned me with the reason being "Camping.", and I really do NOT understand why I was banned, but I DO understand that I was definitely NOT camping. When I was banned, I was in B, securing it and defending it against Marines. I was an Insurgent and I had just made a path to B and killed 6-8 marines on my way there. I went into B on the platform and aimed at the double doors that brought you into B, defending it from any marines who started to seige it. A few minutes after I had been successfully defending it and fending off 3 or 4 marines, I was banned. For "Camping". I really don't understand why I was banned, because I really don't think I was doing anything wrong! Please help me understand why Too fat to fish banned me, thanks.

 

[a pet rock]

http://edgegamers.org/forums/cmps_index.php?pageid=contestban

Sorry, but this is how you should be arguing a ban. Going through this channel brings up to the right people (i.e. leadership) and tells you the information you need to give so they can find all the pertinent info (server, time of offense). Also, you might check if the ban was permanent or if it has expired by now.

Good luck with your contest.

 

[Aruka Schild]

I did that, and I was unbanned, fortunately. However, I am still disappointed in the way people look at the term "spawncamping" in the servers.

According to Xigent... You need to ask yourself these things before you can start assaulting people and saying you understand what "spawncamping/exitcamping" is.

Are there other exits you can take, could you slow down and locate the camper then just kill them, are other players finding ways to get around the problem?

When I camp at somewhere for a prolonged amount of time, it's usually near the marine's spawn. Those places are just the most convenient and highest kill-netting spots. In Dust2, there are 3 (technically even 4) exits that marines can utilize to get out of spawn. When I am camping an area around one of the exits, I do experience people going out of different exits and then catching me off guard by coming up behind me. There are also marines who are smart enough to slow down and actually locate where I am, and even at times, kill me before I am able to even shoot them. And yet, after all of this, there are people who just cannot comprehend the fact that they have a multitude of other options, and brainlessly just scream "SPAWNCAMPER! BAN! KICK!" etc.

Also, according to SkullMosher (and eG member of EGO), there is now a rule that you cannot enter the platform area around the back of marine spawn (that connects to Long A). What is the point of having a ladder for the insurgents to climb up on the left tower of marine spawn then? If that is really the new rule, then that whole area is now pointless to the iraqi's, which is completely ridiculous and, in my opinion, takes a very fair amount of fun out of the dust map.

The fact that I am reported by people who don't even understand the concept of "spawncamping/exit camping" is what continuously disappoints me. Especially when those people are playing alongside other people on their team that are actually smart enough to find a way out of their situation, instead of babying themselves to the admins because they are just mad that they can't figure out a solution themselves.