Soldier vs Demoman

[TomBombadil]

Alright guys I'm making this thread because I am interested to see all the intelligent things you have to say for either the soldier or the demoman to win the secret weapon. Lets keep this realistic and rational. Try and counter something someone says but don't tell them they are wrong, just take into consideration what they are trying to put across.

My opinion on who deserves the weapon is the demoman. Many people think that the demoman is an overpowered class, I do not think so. If you look at it the unless you are a fairly skilled demoman your range for your primary/secondary weapons is mid range to long range. Using these weapons in a short range situation will either get you killed or a lucky kill for most people unless you are good at predicting. Also for both the primary and secondary weapons the demoman has gravity that will affect the trajectory of the pipe bomb/sticky. If a demoman comes around a corner into a soldier the soldier can just pull out his shotgun and right then it is an instant disadvantage to the demoman. I think that it is much easier to come into the game and be a fairly good soldier than it is to be a demoman, because it definitely takes some getting used to. I am most likely fighting a battle I already lost but in my opinion the demoman deserves it more, but more than likely the soldier will win the weapon.

 

[Skill/CJaZ]

This will easily turn into a flame thread. Close it before we all die!

 

[Thereven]

Wait, wait wait... do you mean intelligent, or intelligent for soldiers and demos?

I'm not sure I can type in grunts.

 

[Sharpe]

I agree. I love both classes, But soldier is way more overpowered than Demo. With rockets, You can just spam at the ground and get kills. With Pipes, they don't explode when hitting the ground. This means that you actually have to aim your pipe bombs at the person, instead of just randomly firing at the persons feet.

 

[Carmine]

I agree. I love both classes, But soldier is way more overpowered than Demo. With rockets, You can just spam at the ground and get kills. With Pipes, they don't explode when hitting the ground. This means that you actually have to aim your pipe bombs at the person, instead of just randomly firing at the persons feet.

Are you forgetting the sticky bombs? In addition what game are you playing? I see people randomly spamming pipe bombs all the time. Demoman is by far an overpowered class, soldier may have a lower barrier of entry but that doesn't mean he has the same power ceiling.

There is a reason you are usually only allowed 1 demoman on a team in competitive matches.

 

[Thereven]

There is a reason you are usually only allowed 1 demoman on a team in competitive matches.

This was a holdover from the original quakeworld TF. Only one demo per team because the servers couldn't handle more than a dozen pipebombs at a time. They kept it that way because that's what all the older players were used to when moving on to the new game version. And the older players were who set the rules.

Just like those rules against letting mice play the game. Before they weren't allowed due to control issues, but now they can play as well as any soldier.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DJOTEDBA2c[/ame]

 

[TomBombadil]

Are you forgetting the sticky bombs? In addition what game are you playing? I see people randomly spamming pipe bombs all the time. Demoman is by far an overpowered class, soldier may have a lower barrier of entry but that doesn't mean he has the same power ceiling.

There is a reason you are usually only allowed 1 demoman on a team in competitive matches.

Thats usually because people who participate in competitive matches usually already know what they are doing and how to play the class. If you have a good experienced demoman he will probably win, but soldier is just to easy to pick up and be good at, especially when you have a pocket medic :<

 

[Sabion]

The Demoman class themselves are a highly powerful class, if used properly. Yes the soldier may be able to shoot straight, but the demoman can shoot around corners, continuously fire eight explosives equivalent to rockets (stickythrowing) and can shoot grenades faster than rockets. If two skilled players were to fight one vs one, the demoman obviously has the advantage due to the fact that he can deal more damage faster...Also, in close range the demoman can just sticky jump away from the soldier and launch stickies from afar since a sticky jump goes further than a rocket jump by far, not easy but not hard to do.

 

[QB]

As it affects pub servers, you need only look at one statistic to figure out which of the two classes has more power. On the stat pages of most servergroups, you will always find that demomen have millions of more kills than soldiers do. Yet on a typical server, you will see more soldiers than demomen. This alone is enough for me, but there are other factors as well.

EDIT: I realize that this is no longer (or not yet) the case for our stats page, but it was for a very long time. Our stats have been reset at least twice since I have joined eGO. On most servers I play on that have stats:

sticky + pipe + bottle > rocket + shotty + shovel

Here's another big one for the unconvinced:

Everyone knows that you need an uber to assault multiple sentries or an entrenched position effectively. At the very least this is the most efficient way to do this. I'm sure you could do it with 16 rampaging wrench wielding engies too, but that would be stupid. Given that, would you uber a soldier or a demoman to get the job done? Given equal skill, the demoman will do it with much greater ease. He will also probably kill over 2x as many people in the process.

The fact is, the demoman already has far more killing power. The soldier is relegated to being the King of 1v1. I'm not saying that soldiers have no place in TEAM Fortress - rather I'm saying that they simply have a lower power ceiling than do demos. Soldiers are still an important part of the team.

Hopefully this thread won't devolve into a flame war.

 

[Cl!FF]

I have probably over 570 hours as a demoman, and I can tell you that, soldiers are your only problem when encountered on the battlefield, they have enough health, create massive splash damage and they have a huge advantage over the demoman that the rockets will airlauch you for a small period of time, if you are airlauched you can not dodge or do something, which is a very bad thing, you can get picket off by snipers, airshot, spammed at, rockets shot when you are coming down, therefore do not get lauched, as a piece of advice for the demoman encountering a soldier, do not jump into the air when you see a soldier just strafe left and right to dodge the rockets those are the best ways to have the most control of the game.

Also use your speed to your advantage, you have that advantage on your side

skilled demoman and soldiers will go hand in hand, I've encountered thousands of soldiers, and mainly they die, only a few who are experienced enough know the advantages of the soldiers and the exact weaknesses of the demoman and can put it to use, but in the end it is only a factor of surroundings that will cause the difference, and medics ofcourse and dont forget the random crit rockets

 

[mrcool]

If a demoman comes around a corner into a soldier the soldier can just blast two quick rockets, one to juggle and one to kill, and boom the demoman is dead.

There. Fixed that for you.

I guess if you're arguing that the demo needs a new weapon to make it easier for new players, you have a point. If you really think the demo is underpowered, you're going to have a tough time convincing other people.

Cl!ff - a couple well placed stickies can send a uber flying across the map - much better and easier and safer (for the demoman) than even a pyros CB.

 

[Mr.evil]

Cl!ff - a couple well placed stickies can send a uber flying across the map - much better and easier and safer (for the demoman) than even a pyros CB.

This is true