- Joined
- Sep 20, 2007
- Messages
- 82
i had my issues with vista, but i still say "give vista a chance"... who knows
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 72
I don't get what the point of this thread is. What issue are we exactly "busting wide open"? Whether someone thinks Vista is crap or not is pretty much subjective.
This argument about how Vista sucks or not is like how people think Macs suck or not -- it's all opinion. Some people argue that Macs suck because they don't play Windows games. Whose fault is that? The vendors who don't port their games, of course (similar to how Vista's driver problems were the fault of video card vendors). Sure, Macs aren't the best for gaming since their hardware is non-upgradeable (although the point of the limited hardware is for tight integration between hardware and OS), but Macs can play games at an acceptable level.
Basically, what I'm saying is that people's opinions are exactly that -- opinions. Whether the opinion is properly justified or not, in the end it's all about the individual user's satisfaction. Frid wasn't happy with Vista; the first impression apparently didn't satisfy him. But it will always be possible for him to give it another chance (whether he takes that chance or not is another story...).
So Frid doesn't like Vista. His argument against Vista is dodgy at best (no offense or anything, Frid). But that's what he thinks. Oh, well.
As for me, I don't intend to use Vista any time soon because I would have to upgrade my hardware and buy the new operating system as well (I'd rather spend my money on camera lenses and such.. :|). From what I've seen, Vista doesn't want to make me jump for the opportunity to upgrade. Mind you, I've only used Vista fleetingly at Office Depot, etc. but nonetheless, it didn't exactly impress me.
There's also the fact that I'm more of a laptop user (I run DoD:S on an old laptop going at 14-24fps
) and I'd very much rather get a Macbook Pro for college next year. In my situation, I don't really need Vista.
(For the record, I use Windows XP and Ubuntu daily and Mac OSX occasionally so I have no problem with adapting to new OS's...).
Edit: I also do not condone Frid for saying that Vista is the source of all problems (ie. DyeMatrix's thread) since Vista is clearly not the problem.
It seems that the main topic at hand is to stop Frid from posting such things like "getting rid of Vista." I say just take it up to a moderator...
This argument about how Vista sucks or not is like how people think Macs suck or not -- it's all opinion. Some people argue that Macs suck because they don't play Windows games. Whose fault is that? The vendors who don't port their games, of course (similar to how Vista's driver problems were the fault of video card vendors). Sure, Macs aren't the best for gaming since their hardware is non-upgradeable (although the point of the limited hardware is for tight integration between hardware and OS), but Macs can play games at an acceptable level.
Basically, what I'm saying is that people's opinions are exactly that -- opinions. Whether the opinion is properly justified or not, in the end it's all about the individual user's satisfaction. Frid wasn't happy with Vista; the first impression apparently didn't satisfy him. But it will always be possible for him to give it another chance (whether he takes that chance or not is another story...).
So Frid doesn't like Vista. His argument against Vista is dodgy at best (no offense or anything, Frid). But that's what he thinks. Oh, well.
As for me, I don't intend to use Vista any time soon because I would have to upgrade my hardware and buy the new operating system as well (I'd rather spend my money on camera lenses and such.. :|). From what I've seen, Vista doesn't want to make me jump for the opportunity to upgrade. Mind you, I've only used Vista fleetingly at Office Depot, etc. but nonetheless, it didn't exactly impress me.
There's also the fact that I'm more of a laptop user (I run DoD:S on an old laptop going at 14-24fps
) and I'd very much rather get a Macbook Pro for college next year. In my situation, I don't really need Vista. (For the record, I use Windows XP and Ubuntu daily and Mac OSX occasionally so I have no problem with adapting to new OS's...).
Edit: I also do not condone Frid for saying that Vista is the source of all problems (ie. DyeMatrix's thread) since Vista is clearly not the problem.
It seems that the main topic at hand is to stop Frid from posting such things like "getting rid of Vista." I say just take it up to a moderator...
Fortunately (for me), I reloaded my PC today back to Windows XP.
I'll give you my overview.
Why I hate Windows Vista:
Numero Uno: The drivers in Windows Vista are aggravating, so to speak. Video driver would suddenly crash, resulting in TF2 or DoDS crashing. It always saw my Internal Hard-drive as a removable disk (seriously, what the hell?). Hooking up 5.1 Surround Sound is an absolute nightmare. Although this isn't Vista related... I had to use a Creative SoundBlaster card because the mobo card wasn't functioning right. But when I went to the Vista Sound ... I always selected the Creative SoundBlaster as the card I wanted and it always defaulted back to the motherboard... even if I went into Control Panel (don't even get me started on how they ruined that) to set the Creative SoundBlaster to default.
Numero Dos: Half of the useful apps like Run are no longer on the start menu but instead you have to use the Vista Search engine (which is nice that it is implemented into the start menu but that is far from revolutionary) to find it. And not only that... the Control Panel has been molested by Microsoft so they can make it easier for layman's to screw up their computers. But I will get into that in a later point. MSPaint ... still hasn't been improved. That program has been there for over a decade. Cmon. Although some say "If it isn't broke, don't fix it"... I think the program was already ruined when they made it. Of course... that is compared to more recent standards of graphics programs.
Numero Tres: Severe incompatibility of programs. Case in point. For example... I couldn't manage to get BF2 to install. Their permissions system is a joke. I got a program called PC Probe II for my Asus 8600GT... and it needs the permissions thing everytime I run it. Which is beyond ridiculous. There is a way to just enable admin permissions... but if I gotta enable admin permissions for everything I install... what the crap is the point of Microsoft recommending to create a "User" account and not a "Admin" account.
Numbero Cuatro: It is a beast for resources. The operating system needs 2GBs of RAM and pretty much atleast a AMD 3000+ proc. And for gaming it is even worse. Aero makes it all attractive with the transparent edges, etc etc, but when you multi-task like I do with multiple windows open.... it turns the entire screen into a muddy, blurry mess. According to Windows Vista System Evaluation program, an Asus 8600GT video card is a 5.9 out of 6.0 for Aero.
Let's get this straight. Windows isn't completely satisfied with a 256MB ram, DX10, DDR3, $130 video card for regular use. How is that NOT ridiculous? It is outrageous.
Numero Cinco: Highway Robbery. Windows XP had two editions, Home and Pro. All Windows pretty much did is strip some essential features from XP Pro just to call it Home so all the people who download music and watch Adult Rated Films. Anyone who wanted to run an effective home network or knew anything about computers wants Pro but has to pay a $30 upset for features that should be included already.
To further exaggerate the money-making process, Windows does this with Vista... but ampified. The Ultimate edition for Vista costs a whopping $330 - 350.... almost 2 and a half times as much as XP Pro. Although some features in Ultimate that aren't in the others are required, making five versions of one operating system is ridiculous. You should develop the operating system and just have them select their use and calculate by their hardware if they can run Ultimate or whatever they selected.
I'm sure there is more to this and I'm sure I should put this in the writers column ... but I just find Vista an exasperating piece of software.
I'll give you my overview.
Why I hate Windows Vista:
Numero Uno: The drivers in Windows Vista are aggravating, so to speak. Video driver would suddenly crash, resulting in TF2 or DoDS crashing. It always saw my Internal Hard-drive as a removable disk (seriously, what the hell?). Hooking up 5.1 Surround Sound is an absolute nightmare. Although this isn't Vista related... I had to use a Creative SoundBlaster card because the mobo card wasn't functioning right. But when I went to the Vista Sound ... I always selected the Creative SoundBlaster as the card I wanted and it always defaulted back to the motherboard... even if I went into Control Panel (don't even get me started on how they ruined that) to set the Creative SoundBlaster to default.
Numero Dos: Half of the useful apps like Run are no longer on the start menu but instead you have to use the Vista Search engine (which is nice that it is implemented into the start menu but that is far from revolutionary) to find it. And not only that... the Control Panel has been molested by Microsoft so they can make it easier for layman's to screw up their computers. But I will get into that in a later point. MSPaint ... still hasn't been improved. That program has been there for over a decade. Cmon. Although some say "If it isn't broke, don't fix it"... I think the program was already ruined when they made it. Of course... that is compared to more recent standards of graphics programs.
Numero Tres: Severe incompatibility of programs. Case in point. For example... I couldn't manage to get BF2 to install. Their permissions system is a joke. I got a program called PC Probe II for my Asus 8600GT... and it needs the permissions thing everytime I run it. Which is beyond ridiculous. There is a way to just enable admin permissions... but if I gotta enable admin permissions for everything I install... what the crap is the point of Microsoft recommending to create a "User" account and not a "Admin" account.
Numbero Cuatro: It is a beast for resources. The operating system needs 2GBs of RAM and pretty much atleast a AMD 3000+ proc. And for gaming it is even worse. Aero makes it all attractive with the transparent edges, etc etc, but when you multi-task like I do with multiple windows open.... it turns the entire screen into a muddy, blurry mess. According to Windows Vista System Evaluation program, an Asus 8600GT video card is a 5.9 out of 6.0 for Aero.
Let's get this straight. Windows isn't completely satisfied with a 256MB ram, DX10, DDR3, $130 video card for regular use. How is that NOT ridiculous? It is outrageous.
Numero Cinco: Highway Robbery. Windows XP had two editions, Home and Pro. All Windows pretty much did is strip some essential features from XP Pro just to call it Home so all the people who download music and watch Adult Rated Films. Anyone who wanted to run an effective home network or knew anything about computers wants Pro but has to pay a $30 upset for features that should be included already.
To further exaggerate the money-making process, Windows does this with Vista... but ampified. The Ultimate edition for Vista costs a whopping $330 - 350.... almost 2 and a half times as much as XP Pro. Although some features in Ultimate that aren't in the others are required, making five versions of one operating system is ridiculous. You should develop the operating system and just have them select their use and calculate by their hardware if they can run Ultimate or whatever they selected.
I'm sure there is more to this and I'm sure I should put this in the writers column ... but I just find Vista an exasperating piece of software.
G
GreenMonkey
Yes, Vista or XP FTW is not welcome here in this thread.
Mindfull Please allow me to respond to your post:
------------------------------------------------------------
Section 1: You say that the drivers in Vista are lacking. Explain again how this is Vista or Microsofts fault? In reality it is nVidias Fault. Even so, I have been running Vista since release and the only time I had video driver problems was for the first 3 weeks when nVidia had crap drivers. I am wondering if your post is based off of that time period or based upon recent times. Then I wonder if you loaded the driverd from your video card CD (not so smart) or used version 163 from their website which gets updated every few weeks or so. It seems unlikely that you would have problems in TF2 or DOD:S with these drivers as myself and everyone else uses them and doesnt have these problems.
You also said you "had" to use a creative card because your motherboard audio didnt work,.. I'm guessing they didnt have vista drivers or the board is broken. Either way not vista's fault. Now, I can relate that they changed how vista handles sound and how to select which is default and I do not like it. However, to say that vista is screwing up your default sound device is just inaccurate. Not knowing how to use the more difficult settings sounds more like the problem at hand. First let me say that when using a sound card in any OS you are supposed to disable the one not in use in your BIOS to avoid such conficts as they are often hard to resolve.
That being said, I, myself, have onboard and creative sound cards, both of which are enabled and I often switch between which I am using for reasons unrelated to this post. (Now that I understand how to do so, which is different than in XP) it is very easy to change between which card I am currently using and which is default. Infact, I bet I know why you are having / had this problem because I also thought that my default sound device was getting changed back to my onboard at first too but it turns out that Vista deals with sound weirdly compared to XP and so there is a trick. I will explain if you ever want to go back because it really is simple.
Number 2: To say that RUN is no longer in the start menu is factually innacurate. Click Start > all programs > accessories > RUN. INFACT it is only a few icons above Paint which you love so much <wink>. You will also find the other "half" of the programs you apparently couldnt find before right in the same place. As far as I have noticed in my use, none of the apps are missing only moved. And who cares if the search bar isnt innovative? It works, it works well, and therefor is great. It's faster to find run by typing in RUN rather than searching for it. But really, the cool thing is that, almost anything you would use run to do (such as open the command prompt) can be done in that search bar (such as typing in "CMD" and you can skip run altogether.
For the controle pannel, I am not sure entirely what you think got molested as just about everything you need in the control pannel is both still there and also has the same name. Basically what i notice is that you now have about 3 times more icons in there than before. Is that molesting?
As far as MS Paint is concearned I find you incorect on two accounts. Number 1, Paint is only intended as a basic editor, its never going to suddenly turn into photoshop, its not a photoediting program, its part of the operating system. If they started adding ful editions of software in the OS other people would be complaining about how they are forcing you to use their product...... kind of like the Netscape vs IE lawsuit,... hmm been there done that.
Second, you are just flat out wrong. I hate to tell you, and i dont want to be rude, but your just,.. wrong. MSPaint in Vista isnt exactly the same as in XP. It's worse. It may appear to simply have rounded buttons, but in actually it does somehting xp paint neevr did - open vista paint up and draw a line, then zoom in as far as possible. You will see that a solid black line is actually composed of black, blue, grey, and several shades of each. Wait a minute,... Blue? WTF MS? Vista Paint sux.
Number 3: First of all, lets think back to the transition to XP from 98 (because ME doesnt exist and 2000 wasnt for 'home use' cough). When XP came out, there was a crap ton of software that did not work on it. a crapton. You claim that the same is true with vista, but I say: shinanigans. Dare I say that 99% or better of all XP compatible software (software does not of course include drivers) works right off first try with no alteration in windows Vista. It just does. The remaining percentage of programs that do not are those programs which do alot of memory accessing or other non trivial work. For these programs I say that Vista is the most backwards compatible OS that MS has made. I say that because you apparently never bothered to run those remaining 1% of applications in "XP compatibility mode" which, unlike in XP, actually works. In windows XP there is a compatibility mode to allow programs to think it is in dos and what not. It never works. Its terrible. In windows Vista, I have been able to run everything I want because it either works or does work once I tell it always to run in Windows XP SP2 mode. Consequntly I can also run things in Windows 200 mode, 98 mode, Windows server mode and more. Not only does the setting work but tis much more robust than XP's failed attempt. And by the way, specifically, I have been able to play BF2142 perfectly fine in vista, so again It seems that the problem doesnt lie in Vista, but in your machine or its user. (no offence to the machine's user directly of course)
The permissions system is a joke? Well, if your are tlaking about the UAC settings then, well frankly not only is there a crapton to write about that topic, but I have, severak times and on both eGO sites (TF2 and this one). I just dont have the energy to for a fourth time make my case. But one could always go read about it in the other threads heh. Basically, I agree that there should be settings to allow users the ability to do more than just turn off or keep on the UAC settings, however, there are severely great and important reasons why it SHOULD ask you for permission before installing software, and if you want to answer that question for yoruself then use XP with IE 5 and go pron surfing. Then let me know how many programs had installed themselved without asking. Yum yum, good times. (there are inact other sources of self installing software but that was only one example)
I could also write a ton on why you should be a user andnot an admin or at leas,t not a super admin, but honestly, its much easie to read the reason from ANY linux or unix forum. yeah, ANY.
Number 4: Vista is a beast for resources :TRUE. Enough said really but incase its not I will elaborate. Every operating system reserves space in RAM to perform functions and use as a heap and stack, and some to give out to applications (small ones). Funny thing is that, even though Vista takes a gig of memory just to run, and even though you cant use it because vista has it all, its not actually using it all, it is just keeping it reserved for when it does. You may find that stupid but i think taking a college level computer science course on operating system will clear the issue up nicely.
Vista takes more than every other version thus far. But wait, so did XP. Infact, XP made a giant jump is being a resource hog over windows 98, and gues what, windows(next one) will do the same to vista. And in 10 years I will come back and tell johnxzy that Vista used more than XP and he will be all like "no way not this big of a jump that was tiny". ::sigh:: I feel like I have done this once before already,... oh wait, i did, for XP back in the day. Trust me, it happens it uses more, it will happen again.
BTW if you dont liek AERO, guess what its optional, i like it so I have it enabled. It reminds me of XP AGAIN. Wow, do you realise how many times I have argues with people about the visual enhancements in XP? more than vista so far actually. Except in vista its called Aero, and in XP I call it "fisher price mode". You never know when you could poke your eye out with all those rounded corners or bang your head on those bright blue and orenge colors. actually I think that fisher price toys are LESS flashy. If anyone finds it interesting I always turned OFF fisher price mode in XP to make my computer run faster. LOL But I keep it in on in vista because I liek Aero. Hooray for personal choices, maybe mindfull should make some.
I also have to point out that upon Vista's initial release, it was said that the vista rating system was out of 5. So a 5.9 out of 5 means holy crap nice computer. Since then, however it has come out that 5 CLEARLY isnt the highest number and nobody knows what it is out of. Or at least that the number will change with time. Also, I remember reading someplace that you need a 2.0 (or something) in order to run Aero. So dont worry Mindfull, you are clearly 3.9 points ahead of being able to meet the specs for running aero fluently.
Number 5: (one of my favorite of your misconceptions)
Allow me to use your logic for a moment may I? Windows XP is like $89 but I can go buy Windows 95 for like 5 bucks so XP is completely over priced. Haha wow that is fun. Unfortunately you, liek me just there, are comparing current versions to the price of previouse versions of software. I mean, you could say the same thing about photoshop CS3 compared to CS2 or version 7. But i hardly think that was your m ain concern.
Basically, you are thinking about the vista editions completely backwards (as one would if trying to find flaws and being biased). Lets begin with Windows 95. It existed. Then windows 98 was released and people were sleeping at walkmart parkinglots like band geeks before a concert. It was what? like $299 and people paid for it. Then they made XP (because again ME doesnt exist). Now, Business grade OS (such as windows 2000) is expensive. They wanted XP to replace 2000 AND 98, but they didnt want to force home users to pay $399 for an OS, so they made a home version and sold it for $299. The prices stayed that way for along time before eventually comming down many years later to the $89 you can find it for now.
Now, even as they have release a home version, some people still ask, Why does grandma - who only checks her email, have to buy the same edition as me? She owns a $300 dell, why pay for a full versin of windows? So Microsoft made Vista in 5 editions so that you could save the most money buy only buying what you need and they made the ultimate edition $400. (P.S. there is more than 5 edition but only 5 in the US and really only 4 that most can buy). Having the many different versions is a conveniance to us, and allow us to save money. The ultimate edition costs just as much as XP pro did when it was released so you cant even say that it costs more. Infact, all you can say is that it costs less. But I wont argue if you say it costs the same.
Just consider that the "base" version of Vista is ultimate just liek the "base" edition of XP is Pro, and they just are nice enough to let you pay less if you only happen to need less. They werent so nice for those people who bought 98.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to say that I think Vista is so great, or that I dont. Just wanted to point that stuff out.
Mindfull Please allow me to respond to your post:
------------------------------------------------------------
Section 1: You say that the drivers in Vista are lacking. Explain again how this is Vista or Microsofts fault? In reality it is nVidias Fault. Even so, I have been running Vista since release and the only time I had video driver problems was for the first 3 weeks when nVidia had crap drivers. I am wondering if your post is based off of that time period or based upon recent times. Then I wonder if you loaded the driverd from your video card CD (not so smart) or used version 163 from their website which gets updated every few weeks or so. It seems unlikely that you would have problems in TF2 or DOD:S with these drivers as myself and everyone else uses them and doesnt have these problems.
You also said you "had" to use a creative card because your motherboard audio didnt work,.. I'm guessing they didnt have vista drivers or the board is broken. Either way not vista's fault. Now, I can relate that they changed how vista handles sound and how to select which is default and I do not like it. However, to say that vista is screwing up your default sound device is just inaccurate. Not knowing how to use the more difficult settings sounds more like the problem at hand. First let me say that when using a sound card in any OS you are supposed to disable the one not in use in your BIOS to avoid such conficts as they are often hard to resolve.
That being said, I, myself, have onboard and creative sound cards, both of which are enabled and I often switch between which I am using for reasons unrelated to this post. (Now that I understand how to do so, which is different than in XP) it is very easy to change between which card I am currently using and which is default. Infact, I bet I know why you are having / had this problem because I also thought that my default sound device was getting changed back to my onboard at first too but it turns out that Vista deals with sound weirdly compared to XP and so there is a trick. I will explain if you ever want to go back because it really is simple.
Number 2: To say that RUN is no longer in the start menu is factually innacurate. Click Start > all programs > accessories > RUN. INFACT it is only a few icons above Paint which you love so much <wink>. You will also find the other "half" of the programs you apparently couldnt find before right in the same place. As far as I have noticed in my use, none of the apps are missing only moved. And who cares if the search bar isnt innovative? It works, it works well, and therefor is great. It's faster to find run by typing in RUN rather than searching for it. But really, the cool thing is that, almost anything you would use run to do (such as open the command prompt) can be done in that search bar (such as typing in "CMD" and you can skip run altogether.
For the controle pannel, I am not sure entirely what you think got molested as just about everything you need in the control pannel is both still there and also has the same name. Basically what i notice is that you now have about 3 times more icons in there than before. Is that molesting?
As far as MS Paint is concearned I find you incorect on two accounts. Number 1, Paint is only intended as a basic editor, its never going to suddenly turn into photoshop, its not a photoediting program, its part of the operating system. If they started adding ful editions of software in the OS other people would be complaining about how they are forcing you to use their product...... kind of like the Netscape vs IE lawsuit,... hmm been there done that.
Second, you are just flat out wrong. I hate to tell you, and i dont want to be rude, but your just,.. wrong. MSPaint in Vista isnt exactly the same as in XP. It's worse. It may appear to simply have rounded buttons, but in actually it does somehting xp paint neevr did - open vista paint up and draw a line, then zoom in as far as possible. You will see that a solid black line is actually composed of black, blue, grey, and several shades of each. Wait a minute,... Blue? WTF MS? Vista Paint sux.
Number 3: First of all, lets think back to the transition to XP from 98 (because ME doesnt exist and 2000 wasnt for 'home use' cough). When XP came out, there was a crap ton of software that did not work on it. a crapton. You claim that the same is true with vista, but I say: shinanigans. Dare I say that 99% or better of all XP compatible software (software does not of course include drivers) works right off first try with no alteration in windows Vista. It just does. The remaining percentage of programs that do not are those programs which do alot of memory accessing or other non trivial work. For these programs I say that Vista is the most backwards compatible OS that MS has made. I say that because you apparently never bothered to run those remaining 1% of applications in "XP compatibility mode" which, unlike in XP, actually works. In windows XP there is a compatibility mode to allow programs to think it is in dos and what not. It never works. Its terrible. In windows Vista, I have been able to run everything I want because it either works or does work once I tell it always to run in Windows XP SP2 mode. Consequntly I can also run things in Windows 200 mode, 98 mode, Windows server mode and more. Not only does the setting work but tis much more robust than XP's failed attempt. And by the way, specifically, I have been able to play BF2142 perfectly fine in vista, so again It seems that the problem doesnt lie in Vista, but in your machine or its user. (no offence to the machine's user directly of course)
The permissions system is a joke? Well, if your are tlaking about the UAC settings then, well frankly not only is there a crapton to write about that topic, but I have, severak times and on both eGO sites (TF2 and this one). I just dont have the energy to for a fourth time make my case. But one could always go read about it in the other threads heh. Basically, I agree that there should be settings to allow users the ability to do more than just turn off or keep on the UAC settings, however, there are severely great and important reasons why it SHOULD ask you for permission before installing software, and if you want to answer that question for yoruself then use XP with IE 5 and go pron surfing. Then let me know how many programs had installed themselved without asking. Yum yum, good times. (there are inact other sources of self installing software but that was only one example)
I could also write a ton on why you should be a user andnot an admin or at leas,t not a super admin, but honestly, its much easie to read the reason from ANY linux or unix forum. yeah, ANY.
Number 4: Vista is a beast for resources :TRUE. Enough said really but incase its not I will elaborate. Every operating system reserves space in RAM to perform functions and use as a heap and stack, and some to give out to applications (small ones). Funny thing is that, even though Vista takes a gig of memory just to run, and even though you cant use it because vista has it all, its not actually using it all, it is just keeping it reserved for when it does. You may find that stupid but i think taking a college level computer science course on operating system will clear the issue up nicely.
Vista takes more than every other version thus far. But wait, so did XP. Infact, XP made a giant jump is being a resource hog over windows 98, and gues what, windows(next one) will do the same to vista. And in 10 years I will come back and tell johnxzy that Vista used more than XP and he will be all like "no way not this big of a jump that was tiny". ::sigh:: I feel like I have done this once before already,... oh wait, i did, for XP back in the day. Trust me, it happens it uses more, it will happen again.
BTW if you dont liek AERO, guess what its optional, i like it so I have it enabled. It reminds me of XP AGAIN. Wow, do you realise how many times I have argues with people about the visual enhancements in XP? more than vista so far actually. Except in vista its called Aero, and in XP I call it "fisher price mode". You never know when you could poke your eye out with all those rounded corners or bang your head on those bright blue and orenge colors. actually I think that fisher price toys are LESS flashy. If anyone finds it interesting I always turned OFF fisher price mode in XP to make my computer run faster. LOL But I keep it in on in vista because I liek Aero. Hooray for personal choices, maybe mindfull should make some.
I also have to point out that upon Vista's initial release, it was said that the vista rating system was out of 5. So a 5.9 out of 5 means holy crap nice computer. Since then, however it has come out that 5 CLEARLY isnt the highest number and nobody knows what it is out of. Or at least that the number will change with time. Also, I remember reading someplace that you need a 2.0 (or something) in order to run Aero. So dont worry Mindfull, you are clearly 3.9 points ahead of being able to meet the specs for running aero fluently.
Number 5: (one of my favorite of your misconceptions)
Allow me to use your logic for a moment may I? Windows XP is like $89 but I can go buy Windows 95 for like 5 bucks so XP is completely over priced. Haha wow that is fun. Unfortunately you, liek me just there, are comparing current versions to the price of previouse versions of software. I mean, you could say the same thing about photoshop CS3 compared to CS2 or version 7. But i hardly think that was your m ain concern.
Basically, you are thinking about the vista editions completely backwards (as one would if trying to find flaws and being biased). Lets begin with Windows 95. It existed. Then windows 98 was released and people were sleeping at walkmart parkinglots like band geeks before a concert. It was what? like $299 and people paid for it. Then they made XP (because again ME doesnt exist). Now, Business grade OS (such as windows 2000) is expensive. They wanted XP to replace 2000 AND 98, but they didnt want to force home users to pay $399 for an OS, so they made a home version and sold it for $299. The prices stayed that way for along time before eventually comming down many years later to the $89 you can find it for now.
Now, even as they have release a home version, some people still ask, Why does grandma - who only checks her email, have to buy the same edition as me? She owns a $300 dell, why pay for a full versin of windows? So Microsoft made Vista in 5 editions so that you could save the most money buy only buying what you need and they made the ultimate edition $400. (P.S. there is more than 5 edition but only 5 in the US and really only 4 that most can buy). Having the many different versions is a conveniance to us, and allow us to save money. The ultimate edition costs just as much as XP pro did when it was released so you cant even say that it costs more. Infact, all you can say is that it costs less. But I wont argue if you say it costs the same.
Just consider that the "base" version of Vista is ultimate just liek the "base" edition of XP is Pro, and they just are nice enough to let you pay less if you only happen to need less. They werent so nice for those people who bought 98.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to say that I think Vista is so great, or that I dont. Just wanted to point that stuff out.
I think I'm going to give you a crapload of credit for just doubling what I said and then I'm going to give myself some credit for reading it all 
.
Nicely said.
People used to say I hated Vista cause my PC sucked to run it. But everytime I use Vista it is a bounty of problems. But then again.... I should probably expect it because 98, ME (.. worst.... OS... ever), 2000, and XP all had issues.
I probably won't try Vista until later when alot of the bugs are fixed and they realize "hey there is a backdoor... let's fix that in Service Pack 1" as they did with XP (hence the Windows XP SP2)... but I'm sure you already know that. Lol.
I hated dealing with compatibility. Maybe you have had better luck. I have had little or none.
And with the Control Panel... they once again need to go back to classic view (which I had enabled... so you can't slay more for "no personal choices"). I hate how they are now developing the Control Panel for people who probably shouldn't be using it anyway.
But anyway enough ranting... time for teh Pros of Vista (expect these to be short MUAAHAHA)
WHY I LOVE WINDOWS VISTA
*chirp chirp* ... lool
1.) Windows Media Player 11. They finally have working .avi support right off the bat. No DivX... no downloadable plugins.. it just works (oh God now I sound like Apple *shivers*)
2.) My mother might be brave enough to use the control panel. She probably shouldn't... but she probably would understand the way the categorize it.
3.) The 3D Alt+Tab thing... don't exactly know how to describe it but it impresses me when I see the YouTube video playing while it is in that thing. //cool.
4.) Minimizing has alot less crashes and glitches that in XP. It was offset by a small glitch I got sometimes in TF2. But that was okay.
I'd write more but ... they really kind of explain themselves.
.Nicely said.
People used to say I hated Vista cause my PC sucked to run it. But everytime I use Vista it is a bounty of problems. But then again.... I should probably expect it because 98, ME (.. worst.... OS... ever), 2000, and XP all had issues.
I probably won't try Vista until later when alot of the bugs are fixed and they realize "hey there is a backdoor... let's fix that in Service Pack 1" as they did with XP (hence the Windows XP SP2)... but I'm sure you already know that. Lol.
I hated dealing with compatibility. Maybe you have had better luck. I have had little or none.
And with the Control Panel... they once again need to go back to classic view (which I had enabled... so you can't slay more for "no personal choices"
). I hate how they are now developing the Control Panel for people who probably shouldn't be using it anyway.But anyway enough ranting... time for teh Pros of Vista (expect these to be short MUAAHAHA)
WHY I LOVE WINDOWS VISTA
*chirp chirp* ... lool
1.) Windows Media Player 11. They finally have working .avi support right off the bat. No DivX... no downloadable plugins.. it just works (oh God now I sound like Apple *shivers*)
2.) My mother might be brave enough to use the control panel. She probably shouldn't... but she probably would understand the way the categorize it.
3.) The 3D Alt+Tab thing... don't exactly know how to describe it but it impresses me when I see the YouTube video playing while it is in that thing. //cool.
4.) Minimizing has alot less crashes and glitches that in XP. It was offset by a small glitch I got sometimes in TF2. But that was okay.
I'd write more but ... they really kind of explain themselves.
i have a question... how come some people lets take mindful for example have problems with vista, and I dont have any problems what so ever with vista... i mean the permission thing does get annoying but it stopped me from downloading a file that messed up my other computer... i was super glad and i proceeded to do thing to the comp that i am not goin to list.
G
GreenMonkey
Because - I suspect - that all these people who "vista bash" are those who either have never tried it, or have tried it but only in the first month of release - thus when there was no drivers and thus problems. OR, they try it recently but used the drivers off their hardware disks instead of the ones from the internet. Basically, vista gets blamed for bad drivers and lack of the needed windows updates which have been released. I'm wondering if vista has caught up to XP yet because i swear they update 5 things every other day.
Also, the more obsure things you try to do they better chances of it not working, but even those things almost always work in compatibility mode and noone tries it because it never worked in XP.
But basically, its that people tried it when it first came out, didnt liek it that week and will forever bash it and complain that it doesnt work when infact everything works in vista after only a month or so, even though their beloved XP took nearly a year before everything worked. Nobody learns from the past.
You just reminded me of th epost I made on the TF2 site because of all the vista bashing from people who ddint make any sence and had clearly never even used vista. Your right trukilla - the UAC is usefull and important and works like it is supposed to. Everyone complains about hwo annoying it is but in reality once you have your computer installed, you only see it like - once a week or less, which completely is worth it saving you from installing junk in your trunk.
Also, the more obsure things you try to do they better chances of it not working, but even those things almost always work in compatibility mode and noone tries it because it never worked in XP.
But basically, its that people tried it when it first came out, didnt liek it that week and will forever bash it and complain that it doesnt work when infact everything works in vista after only a month or so, even though their beloved XP took nearly a year before everything worked. Nobody learns from the past.
You just reminded me of th epost I made on the TF2 site because of all the vista bashing from people who ddint make any sence and had clearly never even used vista. Your right trukilla - the UAC is usefull and important and works like it is supposed to. Everyone complains about hwo annoying it is but in reality once you have your computer installed, you only see it like - once a week or less, which completely is worth it saving you from installing junk in your trunk.
I tried Vista Ultimate for about 2 months.. and I just finished using it this weekend when I reloaded. So no.... it's not a "bugs and kinks were everywhere in the first release".
I just ... can't deal with Vista. I hate Windows in itself. Back at Windows XP... I'm beginning to miss that fact that when I'm minimizing TF2 in Vista... I don't get the BSOD I get half the time in XP.
I have never been satisfied with Windows and I probably NEVER will. It is just one of those things were I have used Linux and Mac and been satisfied with some things and with Macs the pricetag is about as bad as buying a Dell XPS or Alienware... Linux has under 5% of applications that are programmed for it...
I think the only way to be completely satisfied is when I get a rig that all the drivers work and there aren't any bugs etc etc. And although half of that depends on the manufacturer... sometimes its Windows also (aka Windows released a update that disabled people who used a specific sound driver..).
Until then I bounce between OS loads trying to prevent WinRot etc etc.
I think I'm expecting too much from Windows... when my instinct tells me to not at all.
OH and without GreenMonkey I wouldn't have anyone to argue about.
I just ... can't deal with Vista. I hate Windows in itself. Back at Windows XP... I'm beginning to miss that fact that when I'm minimizing TF2 in Vista... I don't get the BSOD I get half the time in XP.
I have never been satisfied with Windows and I probably NEVER will. It is just one of those things were I have used Linux and Mac and been satisfied with some things and with Macs the pricetag is about as bad as buying a Dell XPS or Alienware... Linux has under 5% of applications that are programmed for it...
I think the only way to be completely satisfied is when I get a rig that all the drivers work and there aren't any bugs etc etc. And although half of that depends on the manufacturer... sometimes its Windows also (aka Windows released a update that disabled people who used a specific sound driver..).
Until then I bounce between OS loads trying to prevent WinRot etc etc.
I think I'm expecting too much from Windows... when my instinct tells me to not at all.
OH and without GreenMonkey I wouldn't have anyone to argue about.
G
GreenMonkey
Well, then again i say to you mindfull, what exactly were the many problems you had when using vista recently? You really hadnt made any comments reguarding my suggestion that you werent using the latest version of nVidia (or ATI) drivers to solve your video card problems and whatever else you were having issues with.
There is a great deal of people who do quite alot with vista and have no problem with it so I want to know what exactly you had a problem with - and what exactly was the cause and is the solution. Because, basically, if there is something that still doesnt work then I want to know about it and I suspected to hear from alot more people about their troubles.
There is a great deal of people who do quite alot with vista and have no problem with it so I want to know what exactly you had a problem with - and what exactly was the cause and is the solution. Because, basically, if there is something that still doesnt work then I want to know about it and I suspected to hear from alot more people about their troubles.
Yes... I was using the absolute latest drivers from nVidia. From their site. Same with mobo drivers, audio drivers. I never use the disk.
1.) Strange glitches in TF2 and video games where the video driver suddenly crashes and produce a yield sign (similar to the one when your network is getting low or no activity) saying the video driver crashes.
2.) Incompatibility with programs. Not exactly Vista's fault but I'm not going to deal with out of the all the programs I need... half of them being incompatible. For instance, Chopper XP. They don't have a Vista version and Vista doesn't work with half the features, with our without compatibility mode running or running in admin mode. Not Vista's fault... but a pain nonetheless.
3.) Saw my harddrive as a removable disk. Googled for 2 hours trying to figure it out. Nothing pertained to be useful or even on subject no matter what I looked for. All I ever found was ways to hide it... not get rid of the problem. Typical Windows situation.... hiding your problems and not fixing them.
4.) Price is beyond ridiculous. If I'm looking to gaming... why do I have to pay more for the fricken OS than I do for a gaming console? I could go out and buy Vista Ultimate... or I could go out and pretty much buy a brand new Xbox 360 for the exact same price. That is absolutely outrageous. I don't care what they did with Windows 98. You'd think they'd learn by now... since it is going to be a decade in June since they released 98.
5.) Vista User Agreement. Wow. This one is terrible.
Quote from an article on some of the summarized intentions of the Vista User Agreement...
"7. This agreement only gives users only a few rights to use the software. All other rights belong to Microsoft.
8. If you do not like Vista's limitations, Microsoft says in the agreement that "you may not work around any technical limitations in the software."
9. Microsoft has the right to regularly check the legitimacy of the software (which you paid for) and CAN DELETE certain programs without your knowledge.
10. Microsoft can revalidate the software anytime or it may require you to reactivate it if you make changes to ‘your’ computer components.
11. Microsoft has set significant limits on users’ ability to copy or transfer the software. It prohibits anything more than a single backup copy and has set strict limits on transferring the software to different devices or users.
12. Only Windows Defender, the much-hyped anti-virus program –will determine what constitutes unwanted software. That means Microsoft can install Spyware and Adware with impunity."
6.) Oh I'm not finished. Computer scientists Peter Guttmann from New Zealand conducted a study on Vista and found some shocking information.
Here is a summary of what he says:
"Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called “premium content”, typically HD data from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This document analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry."
Microsoft gets to sit pretty on all of this just because they have the resources and money to do so.
Microsoft isn't the Big Brother of the industry... Microsoft is more controlling than John D. Rockefeller in the first oil monopoly.
1.) Strange glitches in TF2 and video games where the video driver suddenly crashes and produce a yield sign (similar to the one when your network is getting low or no activity) saying the video driver crashes.
2.) Incompatibility with programs. Not exactly Vista's fault but I'm not going to deal with out of the all the programs I need... half of them being incompatible. For instance, Chopper XP. They don't have a Vista version and Vista doesn't work with half the features, with our without compatibility mode running or running in admin mode. Not Vista's fault... but a pain nonetheless.
3.) Saw my harddrive as a removable disk. Googled for 2 hours trying to figure it out. Nothing pertained to be useful or even on subject no matter what I looked for. All I ever found was ways to hide it... not get rid of the problem. Typical Windows situation.... hiding your problems and not fixing them.
4.) Price is beyond ridiculous. If I'm looking to gaming... why do I have to pay more for the fricken OS than I do for a gaming console? I could go out and buy Vista Ultimate... or I could go out and pretty much buy a brand new Xbox 360 for the exact same price. That is absolutely outrageous. I don't care what they did with Windows 98. You'd think they'd learn by now... since it is going to be a decade in June since they released 98.
5.) Vista User Agreement. Wow. This one is terrible.
Quote from an article on some of the summarized intentions of the Vista User Agreement...
"7. This agreement only gives users only a few rights to use the software. All other rights belong to Microsoft.
8. If you do not like Vista's limitations, Microsoft says in the agreement that "you may not work around any technical limitations in the software."
9. Microsoft has the right to regularly check the legitimacy of the software (which you paid for) and CAN DELETE certain programs without your knowledge.
10. Microsoft can revalidate the software anytime or it may require you to reactivate it if you make changes to ‘your’ computer components.
11. Microsoft has set significant limits on users’ ability to copy or transfer the software. It prohibits anything more than a single backup copy and has set strict limits on transferring the software to different devices or users.
12. Only Windows Defender, the much-hyped anti-virus program –will determine what constitutes unwanted software. That means Microsoft can install Spyware and Adware with impunity."
6.) Oh I'm not finished. Computer scientists Peter Guttmann from New Zealand conducted a study on Vista and found some shocking information.
Here is a summary of what he says:
"Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called “premium content”, typically HD data from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This document analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry."
Microsoft gets to sit pretty on all of this just because they have the resources and money to do so.
Microsoft isn't the Big Brother of the industry... Microsoft is more controlling than John D. Rockefeller in the first oil monopoly.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2007
- Messages
- 48
Windows XP and Vista are good. End of story.
G
GreenMonkey
First of all, let me just say this. You cant start the club, you can only join mine. This topic aside, the exact same can be said by me on every topic in these forums.
However, I guess you wrote that last long one when I first got my bronchitus and was MIA for about 2 weeks. I will post a reply shortly.
However, I guess you wrote that last long one when I first got my bronchitus and was MIA for about 2 weeks. I will post a reply shortly.
