Updates, why?

Ca$h Money

EGO Zealot
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
1,657
Hello all,

I've been away from TF2 for several months. I just started playing today and remembered why i left. I'm not trying to start a flame war, and i don't know if i'm allowed to discuss this. I hate the updates, all of them. I miss the days when TF2 first came out, before the Kritzkreig, Ubersaw, Sandman and etc... I never understood why they did the updates. I thought the game was great they way they were, but i'm sure many will disagree. Everytime i hear a new update is coming out i remember the first one, medic or heavy, its been so long ago. I remember everyone playing said updated class and it was a pain. No real reason i'm writting this, just venting. I mean no offense to anyone who supports the updates, just looking to make small talk.
-Ca$h
 
idk everyone sees it differently i remember back in the day of halo2 i loved halo2 but as they kept updating and tweaking i ended up hating it. but i started tf2 later than most and most of those items were already in the game when i started playing so it wasn't weird for me but sometimes i do feel the updates unbalance things but i also like the fact it throws new game play and strategies and stuff to keep it interesting
 
Only update I've ever had a problem with is the demo update including the Eyelander and the Chargin' Targe. Don't get me wrong, the idea is charming and amusing, but every other update retains the dynamic of the class for which they were made. That one in particular was stupid to me in that regard. The other problem is that Sword n' Board demos are easy to kill, they just take an annoyingly long time to do so.

My main beef is that they took a DEMOLITIONS expert and turned him into some psycho running around with a claymore who takes practically all of my FL ammo to kill.
 
I think the updates make the game nice. Once you get bored of something, something cool and new steps in
 
I think the updates make the game nice. Once you get bored of something, something cool and new steps in

I agree. The updates provide useful items that change up the way you play a class slightly or make for better offense or defense (while this is true for demos with the sword and shield too I still despise them.).

I love harassing snipers and just about everyone with the flare gun. :x
 
Wow.. i hate these threads, there are so many of them, just continue the one that has already been started.
 
In the science of developing video games (and there is one, certainly), one of the keys to making an online game successful is to create motivation for players to come back to the game, day after day. In this case, it isn't a subscription based service; it's just a great game. However, Even the greatest of games get stale after a while, and they have to create SOMETHING new to make it interesting.

So, put yourself in Valve's shoes. How do you make the game more interesting?

As I see it, there are only a few ways. One of them is to create more maps, or new gamplay modes. As far as I'm concerned, the two go together under the category of changing the playing field. The other way is to tweak the classes, which changes game balance intrinsically. This also keeps players involved, by adding new dynamics that the players need to cope with to be successful. Think about it; have you been more likely to get killed by stickies recently because fewer demos are using them? They have, partially at least, regained an element of surprise that they originally had.

The other way you can change the game experience in this way is to add new classes. However, if the classes aren't constantly being changed, it doesn't matter how many you have; They will still become stale.

I can understand why some people gripe about the these changes; It makes the game more complicated than before. Back in the day, you never had to ask what a sticky launcher did; it was common knowledge. Now, people STILL ask about what the Scottish resistance does, despite it being out for a long time. If you watch the videos about TF2 design, published around when the game first came out, Valve strove to make the characters recognizable and distinct, so that you knew EXACTLY what was coming at you, and for the most part, the weapons had the same effect. There was no ambiguity as to what the class was holding, nor what effect the weapon had. It was just known, and automatic.

Now there's ambiguity. To the trained eye, there isn't. I know exactly on sight (and sometimes sound) what the different weapons are, and I know how to deal with them, largely because I play the game daily. with these kind of changes, this is precisely the market they're appealing to: the dedicated fanbase that plays often enough that the changes are significant in their own right. However, if someone, like the original poster, for instance, steps away from the game for a month, they can come back and be overwhelmed with the huge variety of stuff flying at them. And that, ladies and gents, is how these threads are born.

So what's the moral of the story? Well, as far as I'm concerned, if it wasn't for the class updates, TF2 would no longer be popular. Think about it: the medic and pyro updates were over a year ago. In fact, even longer than that. The updates provide huge incentive for players to learn to play a class, get rewarded with achievements, and to get some new swag to prove they're better than other players; it all works together to create a big rush of enthusiasm, and even sales for valve during update times. Do you think for 5 seconds that the game will not experience a massive population rise for the 2 weeks following the engie update?

These updates have, in my opinion, extended the life of the game considerably, and for that, I'm happy about them. They keep the experience, for me, varied and interesting. And, no matter what they do, thematically or otherwise, they will achieve their goal: players will have to adapt and change to fit the new weapons and learn to use them/counter them, and for that, they will create more interest.

So, that whole dialogue doesn't actually answer anything about whether updates are good or bad, but I hope (for those who were ardent enough to read it) that it helped to explain the impetus behind them. The question of good or bad is one that I refuse to answer because it's not only personal opinion, but it's also largely irrelevant. The average off-the-shelf game out there doesn't last for more than 50 hours of gameplay. I have more than 300 hours of TF2 since steam started keeping overall track, and more than that since before that; if they broke the game tomorrow, it's still the best 10 bucks I ever spent.
 
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like... don't hate on Valve, so far TF2 developers are so dedicated to their game b.c of constant updates thinking on how to make it fun for many others. Not like... BF2 (Battlefield 2) where they just sell the game and move on to another project. Sure, you can have your ordinary weapons for game play but many people like variety just like an eGO event "Medieval Monday" (maybe misspelled) hosted by Sabion (i believe?) that requires you to choose a demo knight, Huntsman, Pow! taunting heavy. These are really fun too. "Monday Madness" event for "Scottish Resistance" blowing everyone up who are standing in the middle. In the marketing side TF2 is just same boring weapons. Valve is dedicated to their work and they even lowered the price to $2 or $3 (forgot) on Halloween. That is definitely why Valve's TF2 team is the best.
 
I'm in the same boat, to the point that I actually am dreading the engie update.

The last good update was spy/sniper, minus the huntsman (arrow spamming, instant-killing, large hit-box, vent/tunnel deathtrap) and the dead ringer (One of the cheapest items ever made).

I remember when sandvich didn't full-heal, when the Sandman could actually be useful and stop an Uber, and you didn't have to craft or wait randomly to get certain weapons.

Oh, and HATS.

TF2 is quickly becoming bloatware.
 
I'm in the same boat, to the point that I actually am dreading the engie update.

The last good update was spy/sniper, minus the huntsman (arrow spamming, instant-killing, large hit-box, vent/tunnel deathtrap) and the dead ringer (One of the cheapest items ever made).

I remember when sandvich didn't full-heal, when the Sandman could actually be useful and stop an Uber, and you didn't have to craft or wait randomly to get certain weapons.

Oh, and HATS.

TF2 is quickly becoming bloatware.

I don't mind the updates, but the recent Pyro buff really irritated me. They were fine with their 25 fuel usage for compression blast, now it's 20 ammo, projectiles reflected back are mini crits, and the delay between using compression blasts has been reduced, and practically all projectiles can be reflected back.
 
I have been away from this thread for a day, but I just started reading today and I remember why I don't like these threads. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but your thread is bad and you should feel bad.
 
Right, so realistically, nobody is going to read my really long thing on page one. I encourage you to do so, but really, TL;DR -

I think the updates make the game nice. Once you get bored of something, something cool and new steps in

+1
 
Right, so realistically, nobody is going to read my really long thing on page one. I encourage you to do so, but really, TL;DR -

I did read your post, and it wasn't that long. In fact i've read everyones post both good and bad. I couldn't find any other discussion matching this one, it could have been months ago, so i didn't look hard enough and for that i apologise. I can see where all of you are coming from and in the end you're right. people want new things to keep them coming back to play the game. i really didn't know which side woud win, those for or against. Since the majority is for updates, i will play some more and see what happens. i;m sure being away for so long has left me rusty adn not used to the new weapons. it was just so frustrating to be killed by a soldier yesterday, i was engy on 2Fort, he literally two shotted me and i couldn't get away from his rockets and was not happy about it. So to stop this post from being any longer, thank you for your feedback and i'll go QQ in private.
-Ca$h
 
I don't mind the updates, but the recent Pyro buff really irritated me. They were fine with their 25 fuel usage for compression blast, now it's 20 ammo, projectiles reflected back are mini crits, and the delay between using compression blasts has been reduced, and practically all projectiles can be reflected back.

ya im at the point where i just give up with the RL when taking on pyros now and just shotty them down or shotty them untill they get there shotty out and shoot some rockets at them,
 
To be fair, it takes forEVER to kill anything with the FL now. Sentries take ages, shield demos are easy but take forever. I love the new blast for harassing the crap out of dead ringer spies and even easier moving of enemies away from things :D, but I'd rather have the old damage back.

They really did make it a solid defense weapon, though. When they patch-buffed the BB shortly after, I initially had wondered why they didn't do that on the update to begin with; now it's a choice if you want to go on offense. I still never use the BB, though.
 
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Kind of like in the good ol days of BF2.. It was good until they made it bad by updating it.
 

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