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What Planeswalker said, in effect, it makes 18 or more classes/play styles, which means that pretty much no matter who you are, you will find at least one that you really enjoy playing.
Unoffical New Engie Weapon Discussion
- Thread starter Dreadmaker
- Start date
Two of his achievements.
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kinda think this will encourage the engy to constantly move his gear forward, you build it get some kills than blow it up and advance with more fire-power than usual than build a new one and so on.
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Yup. alright, for those who haven't seen, quick run down of the wrangler.
Pistol Replacement:
Pretty crazy stuff. Initially, I wasn't really sure what the practical use of manually controlling sentries would be... I thought it'd be pretty useless, because I'd never really come across a situation where it would be necessary.
Yup, totally useless. Except for the fact that it's STUPIDLY powerful in that state. Double the fire rate makes it do 256 DPS with the bullets alone, and since direct rocket hits do 100 damage per, and their firing rate is increased, it's probably more like 300 dps at a minimum. Coupled with the 600hp shield, I think that's pretty ridiculous. Additionally, double fire rate means double pushback. Say goodbye to using an ubered heavy on this one.
But I think people on the steam forums fail to see the MASSIVE downside (because they're all raging): you can't repair it if you're controlling it. If you switch to the wrench, you can, but now it's inactive for 3 seconds. that means that if an uber's hitting it, and it's taking too much damage, you can't do anything but hope the uber runs out, otherwise you're out pushback, the shield, and any hope in hell of keeping it alive. Add to that that spies are more powerful with it, because again, you can't use your wrench or it's deactivated, and you've got a pretty terrible downside.
That makes me feel a lot like it's balanced. Thoughts?
Pistol Replacement:
- Engineer can use Wrangler to take control of his sentry
- An engineer controlled sentry will not target things itself
- When the sentry is controlled, it gets a shield that takes 66% of all incoming damage
- Additionally, when controlled, sentry has doubled firing rate and an increased missile launch rate at level 3.
- After engie switches away from manual control, sentry is deactivated and helpless for 3 seconds.
Pretty crazy stuff. Initially, I wasn't really sure what the practical use of manually controlling sentries would be... I thought it'd be pretty useless, because I'd never really come across a situation where it would be necessary.
Yup, totally useless. Except for the fact that it's STUPIDLY powerful in that state. Double the fire rate makes it do 256 DPS with the bullets alone, and since direct rocket hits do 100 damage per, and their firing rate is increased, it's probably more like 300 dps at a minimum. Coupled with the 600hp shield, I think that's pretty ridiculous. Additionally, double fire rate means double pushback. Say goodbye to using an ubered heavy on this one.
But I think people on the steam forums fail to see the MASSIVE downside (because they're all raging): you can't repair it if you're controlling it. If you switch to the wrench, you can, but now it's inactive for 3 seconds. that means that if an uber's hitting it, and it's taking too much damage, you can't do anything but hope the uber runs out, otherwise you're out pushback, the shield, and any hope in hell of keeping it alive. Add to that that spies are more powerful with it, because again, you can't use your wrench or it's deactivated, and you've got a pretty terrible downside.
That makes me feel a lot like it's balanced. Thoughts?
It seems like complete crap to me. This would require two engis per sentry gun during an uber just to keep the thing up. It is full of huge downsides that the upsides don't make up. If its downsides are THAT BAD, ill probably never use it.
It also runs out of ammo faster because of the higher fire rate.
Personally I look forward to using this, the shield from damage coupled with a higher damage output is pretty damn useful, and lets face it, if an uber comes along most of the time your sentry is dead anyways, this way you can make it NOT target the ubered people countering a push. That and it only costs you your pistol, you know, that weapon that you just spam around at long range and generally isn't as useful as your shotgun for defensive engineers.
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We'll have to see it in action, but for two engis willing to work together, this could be brilliant.
66% damage reduction?
Double fire rate?
One engie aiming, one healing it.
Is it that far-fetched an idea?
Can't wait to try it out
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opscomm, lemme counterpoint:
It's true, it appears more vulnerable to an uber. however, double bullets means double pushback, meaning a heavy uber is out of the question, really (it's hard enough killing a sentry from range with a heavy normally... how about one with 600 health?). A soldier would need to hit it with 7 rockets. 7! also, 6-7 direct pipes and 4-6 stickies directly under it. All while being pushed back twice as hard as before.
Note that for rockets and pipes, you have to reload during the assault, by default, and your uber may well be used up by the time it happens. Now, while I hear you saying that it isn't hard to get 4-6 stickies out there, you assume 2 things: A), that assumes something doesn't displace them, like a teammate, because ALL of them need to hit. B) in this situation, the engie would have been toast anyhow, if he were using the pistol, and there would be nothing to do about it.
Does that change your opinion any? yes, you have to heal the gun after the uber's dead, but I predict that these sentries, used properly, will be particularly difficult to get rid of.
It's true, it appears more vulnerable to an uber. however, double bullets means double pushback, meaning a heavy uber is out of the question, really (it's hard enough killing a sentry from range with a heavy normally... how about one with 600 health?). A soldier would need to hit it with 7 rockets. 7! also, 6-7 direct pipes and 4-6 stickies directly under it. All while being pushed back twice as hard as before.
Note that for rockets and pipes, you have to reload during the assault, by default, and your uber may well be used up by the time it happens. Now, while I hear you saying that it isn't hard to get 4-6 stickies out there, you assume 2 things: A), that assumes something doesn't displace them, like a teammate, because ALL of them need to hit. B) in this situation, the engie would have been toast anyhow, if he were using the pistol, and there would be nothing to do about it.
Does that change your opinion any? yes, you have to heal the gun after the uber's dead, but I predict that these sentries, used properly, will be particularly difficult to get rid of.
Dudes...
The Wrangler turns the Engy into the Siege Tank of TF2.
Think about it.
Set up a sentry, preferably quickly with multiple engies, and in a somewhat open area that is secured.
Wrangle it.
Suddenly...you have a Sentry that is no longer limited by range, but still has ridiculously powerful bullets and rockets that are unaffected by drop-off, is completely controllable, takes less damage, and now you could probably juggle people because you can aim at their feet.
This is incredible.
The Wrangler turns the Engy into the Siege Tank of TF2.
Think about it.
Set up a sentry, preferably quickly with multiple engies, and in a somewhat open area that is secured.
Wrangle it.
Suddenly...you have a Sentry that is no longer limited by range, but still has ridiculously powerful bullets and rockets that are unaffected by drop-off, is completely controllable, takes less damage, and now you could probably juggle people because you can aim at their feet.
This is incredible.
Well, not really. It would require huge amounts of teamwork that most people are unwilling to show in TEAM Fortress 2 (sorry had to emphasize it).
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I think that 1 uber demo may still easily get rid of one of those sentries, example: Uber demo rushes in as usual and lays down stickies and switches to pipe, blows stickies up as he launches pipes. I really hope that will take that sentry out if not then kill the engi and deal with his sentry after 
.
.
First of all... called it more than a year ago. 
You can make your sentry aim at the medics, with rockets you can knock them away from their uber partner, then switch it back to the guy they were ubering, mow him down, then juggle the medic till the uber wears off.
Also, does it say anything about range limitations? Think about this... level 3 sentry on your battlements in Teufort clearing off the opposite battlement.
Couple this weapon with the new shotgun and you can rack up a ton of minicrits to clear people away after you run out of bullets in the sentry.
Think about how many times you kill sentries by edging rather than ubers. Now take away all those times.
The only downside to this is repairing/refilling ammo for the sentry. But if you find a good engie buddy, that downside is eliminated. One sentry controlled, one uncontrolled, two dispensers, two engines.
You will be the absolute king of an area of the map.
You can now make your sentry aim at stickies.I think that 1 uber demo may still easily get rid of one of those sentries, example: Uber demo rushes in as usual and lays down stickies and switches to pipe, blows stickies up as he launches pipes. I really hope that will take that sentry out if not then kill the engi and deal with his sentry after
You can make your sentry aim at the medics, with rockets you can knock them away from their uber partner, then switch it back to the guy they were ubering, mow him down, then juggle the medic till the uber wears off.
Also, does it say anything about range limitations? Think about this... level 3 sentry on your battlements in Teufort clearing off the opposite battlement.
Couple this weapon with the new shotgun and you can rack up a ton of minicrits to clear people away after you run out of bullets in the sentry.
Think about how many times you kill sentries by edging rather than ubers. Now take away all those times.
The only downside to this is repairing/refilling ammo for the sentry. But if you find a good engie buddy, that downside is eliminated. One sentry controlled, one uncontrolled, two dispensers, two engines.
You will be the absolute king of an area of the map.
Exactly what I was thinking. We are used to sentries automatically targeting anything in its range. Wrangling would make sentries easier to flank.
Also, depending on where the engie has to be to use it, it would make the engie much easier to kill. He would not be able to react and would be a high value target.
