Jailbreak Traps - Keep them to a minimum!

[Vexx]

Warden: When the cell doors open, turn 90 to your left, then 270 to your right, look at the ceiling, jump, and do a 280 spin counterclockwise, and finally face 1 degree left.

Say WHAT!?

I absolutely HATE those types of orders. I understand that as a CT, you want to keep the T rebelling level to a minimum, but giving orders so that 90% of the Ts die before the clock hits 5:00? Now, that's just unfair.
I come into jail looking to have fun, troll on some people, and have an all around good time. But when I get freekilled 5 times in a row, for not facing 1 degree left (as Sequel said, as I was there that day in Oswald and died for it too), Jail starts losing its fun.

Orders need to be clear, precise, and SIMPLE. Having the Ts spinning around like crazy is bound to cause confusion amongst both teams, which leads to freekills, and admins raging at everyone. It's a lot easier having Ts come out of cells, and freeze right away. That way, you can get a quick head count, pass out an ST or two, and start the official round.

As for the, "When I type go...... *types 'start'; shoots Ts that twitched", that's not such a bad thing, as you should be paying attention as a T. But when the Warden types in something like "OG" (on purpose) and starts killing people, that's completely unfair.

Heck, a confusing order is fun once in a while, only if you're joking about it (Hokey Pokey...), but not every. Single. Damn. Round.
Keep it fun guys, and keep it simple. Us little Ts are in Jail for a reason you know.

~Vexx

 

[Cyberia]

They are fine with me. Although I want other T's dying , Then I get LR easier >

 

[Sequel Sentry]

Phase for thoughtful discussion starter. Anyway, I'd like to address some points. You're probably going to TLR this, but at least read some.

Euro and Mayhem: If our server is better for having less traps, why not get rid of the ones we have. We have wonderful mappers who have made up more and more games, and the fact we don't have calculators to figure out what 90-180x240-600/0 is in the five seconds we have to do that order isn't our fault.

Complicated orders promote soemthing simple, favoritism. Unlike STs, (which are all favoritism unless handed out as a prize), jail should be equal for all Ts. This is why we don't have last reaction/first reaction, because of miclag and server connection. So why, during the complicated orders where half the time you can't tell if they are doign them or not, should we all these over complicated orders?

Example:
WARDEN: When cells open, turn 90 degrees to your left, then another 270, then back right 95.
(All players turn about 90-100, hard to tell)
(Warden dislikes players A&D, player F is a good rebeller)
(Warden kills players A, D, and F, even though he should killthe other three as well.)

This happens with other orders, too, but at least with knifing distance by 5:05, everyone has a chance to do it.

Spitfire, you made MY day, no matter if it's after two. Creative wardens, as told by many Ts, are the favorite because the average round in jail right now is:

Shiftwalk backwards out of your cell, hit the railing, 90 left and freeze.
(3/12 dead)
Shiftwalk to couch game, get on a couch and freeze.
(One rabbles, 4/12 dead)
Be on a couch frozen by 4:00.
(2/5 couches die, 8/12 dead)
Take it or leave it.
(Two Ts take it, both death 10/12 dead)
High spray contest.
(Last request, 11/12 dead)

Yet somehow wardens stretch round like this out to lockdown most of the time. Creative wardens don't always give freedays, (but when they do, they drive Dos Equis), they give a couple STs and come up with their own games from what the mapmakers provided, or at least less common games that people mgiht find more entertaining than a guy talking in a monotone for the whole round.

Totally agree about how many Ts die, I did a 17 man simon once for LR, just to prove how annoying it was.

Sigma, the point of jail is for the Ts to kill the CTs or for the CTs to find CREATIVE ways to kill the Ts. Giving the annoying orders only makes Ts want to rebel more, and things like not baiting are much more effective.

And Vexx, this Hokey Pokey is mine, there are many like it, but this one is mine.

Finally, to conclude, I said the point of jail is for the Ts to kill the CTs or for the CTs to find CREATIVE ways to kill the Ts earlier. This is true, however, that is the game part. The real point of jail is to enjoy it, and creating every single stupid trap you can thing of to win isn't worth it. Sure, you want to win, but what would you rather do, win a virtual round of jail, or cause as many people as this to argue about it. Even if you may say Ts always rebel, which is true, complicated orders doesn't solve the problem.

Giving rewards in temptation or take it or leave it that are death every time is not creative. Same rounds over and over and over are not creative.

So please, PLAY jail, not live it.

 

[Xhisorz]

Still not funny
-Cryptex

But i really agree with what you say Phase. Keep the traps at a minimum!

 

[veridianphantom]

Well while we're giving opinions.... My opinion is, the odd trap like "when i type go" and he types "start" thing is fine, people gotta pay attention. Traps are fine but too many cause players to get upset. Temptation however i find is a hard game to play for CT's to pay attention to who made it, when playing that game Warden's should always give a reward, and when T's do make it, sometimes the CT's don't know who, or ignore you because they didn't see your name when jumping, or even when someone else steps up as if they made it instead of you. (when you were the one to actually make it) that's what makes my jail day not fun anymore. Complicated orders, unclear mics, speaking too fast, bad connection, and if you're just going to give a free day when you become a Warden, are things someone should NOT be warden for, free days are Terrorist rebellion days. Everything else just leads to free kills and bad tempers.

 

[Prisoner416]

It all depends on how they are given, natch. Most people here seem to be voting against the abusive ones.

 

[Power]

Jail is fine, the orders are fine, things are fine. Everything is great.

 

[eurocracy]

Phase for thoughtful discussion starter. Anyway, I'd like to address some points. You're probably going to TLR this, but at least read some.

Euro and Mayhem: If our server is better for having less traps, why not get rid of the ones we have. We have wonderful mappers who have made up more and more games, and the fact we don't have calculators to figure out what 90-180x240-600/0 is in the five seconds we have to do that order isn't our fault.

Complicated orders promote soemthing simple, favoritism. Unlike STs, (which are all favoritism unless handed out as a prize), jail should be equal for all Ts. This is why we don't have last reaction/first reaction, because of miclag and server connection. So why, during the complicated orders where half the time you can't tell if they are doign them or not, should we all these over complicated orders?

Example:
WARDEN: When cells open, turn 90 degrees to your left, then another 270, then back right 95.
(All players turn about 90-100, hard to tell)
(Warden dislikes players A&D, player F is a good rebeller)
(Warden kills players A, D, and F, even though he should killthe other three as well.)

This happens with other orders, too, but at least with knifing distance by 5:05, everyone has a chance to do it.

Spitfire, you made MY day, no matter if it's after two. Creative wardens, as told by many Ts, are the favorite because the average round in jail right now is:

Shiftwalk backwards out of your cell, hit the railing, 90 left and freeze.
(3/12 dead)
Shiftwalk to couch game, get on a couch and freeze.
(One rabbles, 4/12 dead)
Be on a couch frozen by 4:00.
(2/5 couches die, 8/12 dead)
Take it or leave it.
(Two Ts take it, both death 10/12 dead)
High spray contest.
(Last request, 11/12 dead)

Yet somehow wardens stretch round like this out to lockdown most of the time. Creative wardens don't always give freedays, (but when they do, they drive Dos Equis), they give a couple STs and come up with their own games from what the mapmakers provided, or at least less common games that people mgiht find more entertaining than a guy talking in a monotone for the whole round.

Totally agree about how many Ts die, I did a 17 man simon once for LR, just to prove how annoying it was.

Sigma, the point of jail is for the Ts to kill the CTs or for the CTs to find CREATIVE ways to kill the Ts. Giving the annoying orders only makes Ts want to rebel more, and things like not baiting are much more effective.

And Vexx, this Hokey Pokey is mine, there are many like it, but this one is mine.

Finally, to conclude, I said the point of jail is for the Ts to kill the CTs or for the CTs to find CREATIVE ways to kill the Ts earlier. This is true, however, that is the game part. The real point of jail is to enjoy it, and creating every single stupid trap you can thing of to win isn't worth it. Sure, you want to win, but what would you rather do, win a virtual round of jail, or cause as many people as this to argue about it. Even if you may say Ts always rebel, which is true, complicated orders doesn't solve the problem.

Giving rewards in temptation or take it or leave it that are death every time is not creative. Same rounds over and over and over are not creative.

So please, PLAY jail, not live it.

You're clearly typing before giving ample thought.
1) That's -Inifinity in theory, bad example.

2) This is Jail, this isn't a school playground where you play leap frog, trickery is part of the game, sure you can put rules in place and ban it becaus eit's not fun, while we're at it lets ban couch game, that's not too fun. Hm, take or leave it lets ban that. Simon says uses trickery, lets ban that! At the end of the day if there's no challenge that doesn't require you to use actual brain power then you may as well have a freeday.

3) All rotation intervals in jail are multiples of 90 degrees, any less than that and you can't tell easily due to torso movements instead of the body. So those example orders you've given out are useless.

4) It's funny, okay, when trivia was allowed it was funny as hell to say "You answer you die, first person to speak gets my deagle", watch them walk onto your spray, kill them and drop it on their body. It's hilarious. Same goes for temptation and take it or leave it.

Anything else you'd like to add? With real examples.

 

[crazyrockets]

The difference between take it or leave it, temptation, and couch game vs. using trickery/underhandedness is because with those, you have to specify what consititutes a death sentence beforehand. The ts don't have to take it, and they don't have to jump, and it is up to the t's to choose which couch to get on, even though they don't know which one will die.
Sequel is correct, any orders that allow the warden/cts to pick and specifically choose who they are going to choose instead of an impartial process are inherently unfair to the Ts. Some wardens are boring, but there are always some that find ways to make it fun! (and the boring ones tend to get rebelled on pretty quick)

I use take it or leave it to thin the ranks some, but I always have STs, disco days, random prizes (taker gets cake, but sorry, its a lie) and even freedays as the rewards! (Just a hint, my last take it will usually either be death or a free day)
Things I like doing as a T are things that I make them do. I hate couch game...hence I don't do couch game as warden. I love race, hopefully the Ts do too

 

[Cryptex]

Any further comparisons to the holocaust in this thread will have your entire post deleted, the thread locked, and will land you a fun chat with me.

This is your only warning.

 

[Sequel Sentry]

You're clearly typing before giving ample thought.
1) That's -Inifinity in theory, bad example.

2) This is Jail, this isn't a school playground where you play leap frog, trickery is part of the game, sure you can put rules in place and ban it becaus eit's not fun, while we're at it lets ban couch game, that's not too fun. Hm, take or leave it lets ban that. Simon says uses trickery, lets ban that! At the end of the day if there's no challenge that doesn't require you to use actual brain power then you may as well have a freeday.

3) All rotation intervals in jail are multiples of 90 degrees, any less than that and you can't tell easily due to torso movements instead of the body. So those example orders you've given out are useless.

4) It's funny, okay, when trivia was allowed it was funny as hell to say "You answer you die, first person to speak gets my deagle", watch them walk onto your spray, kill them and drop it on their body. It's hilarious. Same goes for temptation and take it or leave it.

Anything else you'd like to add? With real examples.

These are all real examples. Your argument was made without ample though.

1. Define please?

2. I'm not saying ban ALL trickery, I'm saying get rid of the stupid constant ways of it like start or begin. There are unfun (not a real word, but you get the point) aspects to jail, but it shouldn't be constant boring as hell rounds where we play the same games over and over. You can still have general fun after those games, but constant traps on every single one is awful.

3. Again, not well thought out. It's not well discernable, but people still do it. It is a real example and happens. So no, they are not useless.

4. What does this have to do with anything? The difference is in bloodybunny trivia you tell the Ts death is the prize. In this temptation and take it or leave it, the prize is almost always death, (even in temptation, most of the time it's just nothing though), not told to you by CTs, and is just a tactic to pick out the ones brave enough to do it.

So anyway...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDW0ZnZxjn4[/ame]

 

[PhaseXero]

I think my biggest problems are games intentionally designed to screw over Ts. The take it or leave it aspect combined with "LR" as a prize is a prime example. Additionally I hate it as a CT when there is not enough Ts to rebel. The on the edge, nail biting action is really the best part of jail.

However I must agree that if you fail to follow simple orders because you weren't listening you should be killed. I do think that more time should be give, 6 seconds to get on the bed should really be increased. The only purpose of the time limit at the beginning is to kill of Ts. If you want control give stricter orders so that Ts don't run around.

 

[Zyonsis]

It's a TRAP.

While I don't fall for them, a lot of people do. :S

 

[Vanilla]

Probably going to regret posting in this thread.
Should just let the wardens warden how they want to warden instead of criticizing everything he/she does because you don't agree with it. As long as everyone is working towards the same objective: getting LR, killing Ts, killing CTs, then it shouldn't matter how they warden.

Being the warden is a lot like administrating. If you are bad at it, you won't be doing it for very long before something happens.

 

[Tension]

Overall, the experience of jail is about having fun, and making such traps doesn't really increase the amount of fun anyone has. I have a hard time believing that a CT has fun trapping the Ts with a spelling mistake order.

I think people should go a little easier. There's nothing wrong with being really strict if you want to, just don't be lame and boring about it.

 

[eurocracy]

These are all real examples. Your argument was made without ample though.

1. Define please?

2. I'm not saying ban ALL trickery, I'm saying get rid of the stupid constant ways of it like start or begin. There are unfun (not a real word, but you get the point) aspects to jail, but it shouldn't be constant boring as hell rounds where we play the same games over and over. You can still have general fun after those games, but constant traps on every single one is awful.

3. Again, not well thought out. It's not well discernable, but people still do it. It is a real example and happens. So no, they are not useless.

4. What does this have to do with anything? The difference is in bloodybunny trivia you tell the Ts death is the prize. In this temptation and take it or leave it, the prize is almost always death, (even in temptation, most of the time it's just nothing though), not told to you by CTs, and is just a tactic to pick out the ones brave enough to do it.

So anyway...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDW0ZnZxjn4

You have ignored my entire argument, I have nothing else to say when my opponent pays as much attention to me as a wall.

 

[Spitfire'd]

Being the warden is a lot like administrating. If you are bad at it, you won't be doing it for very long before something happens.

That's a good observation, but the fact of the matter is a lot of people are bad at it, but since they are bad at it well within the rules they get to keep doing it. And since we are a clan that does not disrespect each other (let me stress I am not at all complaining about that rule), it is in poor taste to flat out tell someone that they are a bad warden, no matter how bad you want to.

Fortunately, we have other great servers. As I already alluded to earlier, if this trend of constantly trapping players with several tricks each and every round continues I think you'll see us old vets on the other servers. The Jail cycle will continue its course and old players will leave as new players discover it. 3 months later those players will leave as new players discover it. You get the idea...

 

[Mudkip]

What I really hate is this one specific trap designed by this one unnamed warden.
"Shift walk directly to couch 4, and face the wall"
Meaning, Not on the couch and next to it.
Basically means 16/17 Ts get on the couch and get killed by the warden, and the one smart T survives.
These orders are way too confusing, and most of the time get 70%+ of the Ts killed.
Especially when its done round after round.

 

[BubbaSparx]

Traps are fine. they are part of jail and the game in general. The only bad thing about jail is free killing. Theres no way to stop free killing and thats why i dont play jail that much

 

[Lucin]

I hate early game traps with a passion because every time I play jail I would somehow miss one thing and die at the start and be forced to wait an hour to play again. That and standing in front of my cell for half an hour are major reasons I started to hate jail . I saw someone mention it but it this bad because I'm sure there were tons of pubs lost as eGO members because of this.
Personally I would like a rule where you can't do these traps till mid game so I could actually play some game and die because I lost or did something bad. I would probably start playing jail again...