Poker Night -- Lost it's luster quick.

[=[Ga]= AutoDMC]

Lots of QQ here, but I had to gripe a bit about this game. With that said, there's an actual quest for suggestions on winning strategies that can be accessed with the scroll bar, used liberally, until reaching the "TL;QQ;DR" line below.

OK, I bought Poker Night for some cheap swag and cool lines. And while I'll admit that the dialog is witty like an all day marathon of The Princess Bride on loop, the game play... well.

I've never been really good at Poker, and considering that's like the entire point of the game it seems at first blush to be one of those rolly eye things where you say "You've never played a shooter yet you thought you could beat Half Life 2 in record time on god mode?"

But the rules are pretty simple for the game, and the company was fun, and with the difficulty mode set on low I wasn't strictly punished for my newbie mistakes... at first.

However, the first sign that I wasn't going to be friends with this Tell Tale game much longer was when I discovered the item mechanic. You have to wait for one of the characters to randomly decide to put some item on the table. And then you, personally, have to beat them, personally.

What the heck? Really? Every dang time there's an item on the table, StrongBad goes all in with the character with the item before the flop while I'm holding 3 high. Seriously. I feel like the game is taunting me.

The game AI seems to take into account your wins... but not your losses. By which I mean the difficulty ramps up when you win, but won't roll back when you fail. Which means it was very bad for me to win the first three tourneys in a row, for I have completely failed to win the next seven. Yes, seven. Again, I'll admit to not being a pro at Poker, but seriously, folks. The game has a difficulty ramp that ratchets up, never down, so like that hasty save point at 10 HP just before the final showdown in Half Life Classic, I'm stuck. I'm punished for my random success... and have gotten to see StrongBad take away all three chances for items. And then get eliminated the next round by Heavy.

Perhaps if I was better at Poker, or had an actual winning strategy for the game I wouldn't frustrate so easily*, but I feel kinda cheated. And it doesn't help that I've rapidly gone through the can of dialog so they're already repeating themselves. The table chatter is nice and varied... but the taunts and "checks" and "calls" have already lost their luster. If I hear Max talk about "ostentatious bank accounts" or hear Tycho say "CHKDSK" one more time I might actually eat my mouse. I would have liked to see a little more variety in the lines of dialog which will come up most often.

And I feel like the game is cheating. Seriously. Again, I'm used to losing at Poker, but I can't help but feel that the game is actively punishing me for playing it. If I get a 2, 6, StrongBad is almost guaranteed to bet a thousand within the first five minutes of play, causing me to fold because my pot is running out, nearly guaranteeing a flop of 3, 4, 5 (in that insulting order). I played a round where a the end I had a flush, 10 high. Naturally Tycho had a flush, Jack high. And Max had a flush... Jack high. I assume at that point I exited the game for I have no memory of the 15 minutes between then and finding myself in front of the TV watching Discovery channel.

I know it's easy to claim "CHEATING" in any betting game, but seriously. I have years of experience losing at Texas Hold'Em, as I'm almost always a shoe-in to play and a shoe-in for last. And I find the distribution of "actually having a chance nope actually everyone else is just a little better than you lol" to "you have trash cards but StrongBad's betting you out of the game anyway" to be a bit too high for my blood pressure. I can't prove it, but if this was on an eGO server I'd be taking condumps and demos just to be sure. It's like that sniper who MIGHT actually really be that good OR just may be good at faking not having an aimbot. You don't want to yell "CHEATER!" but at the other hand if you step around the corner one more time to an instant headshot you're going to uninstall TF2 and throw flashbangs at your own team in CS:S for a week.

TL;QQ;DR

So, I've enjoyed the game. It was fun at first, but it's quickly warn down. I'm not sure if I've even gotten $5 out though. I'm convinced the game isn't being as fair as it should, but have no way to prove it. And the AI seems out for blood; it's impressed with an "all in" that's only $100 more than the bet you'd have to make, triggering folds, while almost guaranteeing all-ins by the guy who has the item you want on the single hand in five that you had to fold because it was worthless.

With the QQ out of the way, does anyone have any good strategies for playing well? Like I said, I won my first couple of tourneys relatively easy with a strategy of "high cards or matched suits, be aggressive with a pair" but now the game just seems to be toying with me. I think with a little bit more "shine" on how to play against the game, and heck, even just be a bit better at Texas Hold'Em, I could actually enjoy the game. But now it's just a mocking expense line on my bank statement.

 

[ModusPwnens]

lol you just talked me out of buying it

 

[vudu]

Buy it because you like poker, not because of the items.

 

[Jawneh]

I do agree with you on the mechanics. The AI does a lot of stupid moves and a lot of times with stupid cards. My bad habit in poker is sometimes playing bad or decent cards anyways even though I know it's not a good idea. So I've seen the cards of the AI a lot.

It is annoying though that they did make the AI possible to go all in in the first or first couple hands if people kept re-raising them... That has always been my pet-peeve in poker. It is a viable tactic later in the game to go all-in to win you more chips, but that early in the game it's just... Bleh.

I haven't played the game on Hard yet, and might not for a little while, but the game is already losing interest. Like you said, the lines were pretty funny at first, but are getting boring. I do hope they roll out some tweaks for the AI later on, as well as support for folding/checking/calling/betting using a key on your keyboard so that you dont have to use your mouse... That annoys me greatly that it does not have these features. But yes. It's a good fun game and I dont think anyone really expected it to last very long. I guess the random placement of the weapons makes you play it a bit longer?

 

[Believer]

Regarding getting the items: I got my first item today going all-in against the Heavy within the first few plays. I think a lot of the winning just comes down to luck, not really skill. If you can roll with that, I think it helps (especially considering the need for bugs, etc. to be patched).

As for the randomness of the items, just start a New Game until one of the character's brings the item to the table.

 

[Mr.SaJoRa]

i agree on the weird AI. i dont wanna say anything but it seems like the AI has a lot of pairs on their hands.. or maybe i just dont have any luck

 

[Lucin]

I somehow got all the items in two days with no poker experience at all... I don't know if it was luck or I somehow learned poker in 1 min but I did. As for the random chat that was what made me play it longer then I initially wanted to. Yea they would repeat the same thing over and over if you play long enough but if you really hate it turn the volume off and right click to skip the loong chat.

 

[Ducttape]

I've played a fair deal of poker (c-wat-I-did-there?) lutz

The cards seem to fall pretty fair; that is, you loose a lot on the river, other players always seem to draw into that inside straight, or their kicker is always just one higher than yours. It's like that in real poker, too.

About PNATI's AI: They suck.

Overall I like the game, but more for the conversations the other players have then for the game of poker. Unfortunately, after you've played for a while, they do start to repeat themselves...

I've played enough to get the unlocks and most of the achievements (haven't gotten the Straight Flush yet). If it wasn't for the TF2 unlocks, I'd probably be disappointed in the game.


I'm hoping that Tell-Tell-Games releases a Multiplayer mod for this in the future: that would at least give it some lasting replay value. Maybe add some other characters someone like Zap Branagin would be awesome.

 

[Toxxin]

I am pretty decent at poker and so far the stupid moves I seen them do appeared to me like maybe they were trying to bluff, but when you are called on your bluff it can appear as a stupid move (you bet all that money on trash cards!! omg) I got all the items first time around except the license to maim which Heavy went all in and Max followed losing to the Heavy but it will come around again. I think its a fun game like any other computer card game but more fun.

 

[=[Ga]= AutoDMC]

Talk of adding more characters? GORDON FREEMAN. Best poker face EVER. Yeah, I know what you're thinking, who will converse with Gordon Freeman? Well, if the HL games are any measure... EVERYONE. And it will be AWESOME.

The dialog is the ONLY thing keeping me going so far, mainly because even though the repeats are high, they're still funny.

And like I said, I'm not a poker pro, but I won my first few tourneys hands down without breaking a sweat, and not even due to stupid betting strategies on the part of the AI. I'm willing to believe that the game was cheating FOR ME for the first few games to hook me.

And I've gotten 7/17 of the achievements. I've gotten a few awesome hands... I do wonder if the randomness of the AI's playing and betting strategy is part of the problem... While, technically, betting should give as little info as possible, it's one of the only real communication methods in poker. You MIGHT go all in on a weak hand, but not likely often.

You know what I would like? A kiddie table in the game. Gimmie open hands and card percentages. Even if the game doesn't give me anything for playing there, being able to practice the game with extra information would allow me to learn the game better than constantly losing to flushes one card higher than I the single time in 8 hands I have anything worth playing.

Tell Tale's first game was a Poker game, so I assume they've got this thing down, yo. And I'm willing to admit that my gaming ability is a bit lacking. But when I win, I fell like I win because I psyched the computer into playing dumb, and when I lose it's because the computers screwing with me. I know it's a game of chance; it's poker with randomized cards. It's just started to feel like I'm losing not because I drew lame cards or bet stupidly (skill) but because the computer rolled "screw you haha" yet again (completely out-of-your-hands random chance). A good poker player can manage bad hands and leverage them into winning hands. I'm not a good poker player, yet, but I can't believe I'm that bad all of a sudden.

-----

The only betting strategy I've figured out is Max. Max actually seems to play with a random choice generator. I've seen him call, then reraise off a $100 raise $2000, then fold after another $100 raise, when he has the biggest pot. Which fits his character well.

Tycho is actually interesting to play against because his AI seems a bit more conservative. More likely to fold with a relatively good hand (His "fold" animation will reveal his cards if you look), less likely to randomly raise... unless you've folded and he has his watch on the table. Then he'll go all in against StrongBad.

 

[PloxBox]

i found a stratagy that works for me quiet alot, bet low before you get the cards on the table, check once (call if they bet) then when the 4th card is placed, bet high, either all of them will fold, or max or strongbet will also bet high, if thats the case bet SUUUUPPPPEEEERRR high, and both will fold, giving you the spoils. Has worked for me every time. (The AI seem to be outrageously easy to bluff)

 

[Jawneh]

If you're going just for the items, the only thing you need to do is outplay the person with the item. Basically you'll call and fold as the AI does and the rest of the hands just fold unless you have a great hand. You have better chances slowly chipping off their money yourself with big bluffs than letting the AI do that on their own. At least there's no chance of someone else taking the items.

 

[QuickSkope]

Got all the items in 10 min:

Tyko:Folder, hes concervative.
Max is silly, random
Heavy: He plays shy, but damn, he got 4 full houses in a row.
Strongbad: He seems to be a good opponent, till you fold.

I had one time, we just say our cards
Heavy: "check"
Tyko "check city usa"
Me "check"
Max: "check"
Strong bad:"Hummmmmmmmmmm.... ALL IN ALL!" *throws down ace high* looses glasses

Keep in mind, we hadnt even seen the river yet -_-

The AIs are redonculously easy, i have a 98% win ration.

Its kinda lame, but hey sometimes it gets crazy.

Had all items in 10 min, played 1 hour, returned to tf2.

 

[ShinobiSli]

I've actually played a lot of poker prior to this game. The AI isn't odd, it's just that the characters all have very distinctive styles of play. What works strategy-wise against one of them might be useless or detrimental to another. A random big bet might bluff Strong Bad, who loves calling them no matter what he has, but it'll make Max fold every time. The key is adapting your style to best oppose the individual you want to beat if it's an item you're after, or to just play good poker at the personal level if you're trying to win overall.

 

[Ducttape]

I've played a little beyond 'just getting the items' and I've unlocked some of the new tables and decks.

The new tables / deck combos seem to change up the players styles and conversations. Put on the TF2 red table and the TF2 deck, and the Heavy dons his visor and gets a lot more Animated. Same for Strongbad (I hate his deck lol) and the others. Their style of play also seems to vary by deck/table. Just when I think I've heard all the conversations they can have, someone will say something new.

I'm still holding out hope that Telltale does something incredibly smart with this game, and introduces multi-player, new characters, and (I'd drop a golden plop) actually release this as a bet real money game. Ok, maybe not that last one, but maybe being able to bet in-game items would be amazing.

If you've never played real For Keeps poker before, it goes like this: the size of the stakes you're playing for drastically increases your interest in the game Let's say everyone has to toss in (1) vintage weapon, and whoever wins the tournament gets all the weapons added to their backpack. Nice, right? Well, what if everyone tosses in a Vintage Hat? Assuming there's 5 people at the table, the winner would get 4 Vintage hats from the win. Nerdgasm ahoy.

 

[westside]

think of it this way, easier AI plays with crappier cards, I dont think the AI has anything to do with the flop (although it very easily could, other poker games do)

but if you think the players bet too much with crap its because thats what bad players do, they are just playing bad poker on a lower setting.

that being said i havent played on hard yet so i dont know if it gets any better, but you are basically paying $5 in order to play for some items, thats it...