A crazy little thing called Kalt...

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My only concern with bringing the event server on for this would be that it doesn't allow it to develop a level of pub players outside of the realisms. It's harder to start a realism from scratch on a server that only realisms happen on, if there's not a base on it to begin with it becomes extremely difficult keep starting it.

The 8th does it this way, we could vote on the Kalt server (Or any server if a realism admin sees that the event server is empty) gather the people who want to realism and move over. Everyone wins. The people who want Kalt keep kalt running, the people who want realism get realism going.
 
not to be the pessimist here, but i will like to address the issue that it will be extremely hard to manage the realism mod if we were to open up a realism server.

Right now, only the Realism Tournament Administrators (and in rare circumstances, the Cincs) are allowed to manage the Realism Mod during the Campaigns. On the off-season, Stormy, Blue, and/or Ron are the only ones to manage the Realism Mod unless NOONE is there.

Now, I've read several posts in here saying basically, "we can let 2 or three seasoned admins do this and that". This won't work. This hasn't worked. We tried it before. Before the restrictions placed above, we let whomever had access use it. What happened? Well, it crashed the server for about a week's time. This cannot and will not be tolerated again. It is the main reason why we had to enforce the rules stated above.

I'm just here to bring some common sense logic to this discussion. Thank you for reading!
 
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not to be the pessimist here, but i will like to address the issue that it will be extremely hard to manage the realism mod if we were to open up a realism server.

Right now, only the Realism Tournament Administrators (and in rare circumstances, the Cincs) are allowed to manage the Realism Mod during the Campaigns. On the off-season, Stormy and a select few trusted people are the only ones to manage the Realism Mod.

Now, I've read several posts in here saying basically, "we can let 2 or three seasoned admins do this and that". This won't work. This hasn't worked. We tried it before. Before the restrictions placed above, we let whomever had access use it. What happened? Well, it crashed the server for about a week's time. This cannot and will not be tolerated again. It is the main reason why we had to enforce the rules stated above.

I'm just here to bring some common sense logic to this discussion. Thank you for reading!

Can you expand on how this happened, so that we can better understand? Was it due to incorrect, or malicious use of the Realism mod? If the former, couldn't that be prevented by proper training? If the latter, couldn't it be avoided by only empowering a handful of trusted admins (and coming down HARD on any others that misuse it)?
 
The realism mod isnt hard to use, and this is a maturity issue. We all have access to those commands anyways C-Whit, we dont use them because if we do, the punishments are severe. There are some people who DO mess with it even when Stormy is there. Ive used the Mod to help run Hide and Seek, and on the rare occasion run the Realism itself.
We'd need to have an admin class for it, and we clearly have people more than willing to run it, if the people who run REGULAR realism, NOT the campaign, can all agree on a set way of running the event then we could admin train for it. Heck, I'd even put on my big boy boots to help run the training once taught.
 
Sorry for the double

There are 5 admins on here more than willing to help run, train, and do whatever to get the realism server running: Death_Keeper, Kiwi, Skippy, Yospankdawg and Myself. There are more admins, and es, who play on the other realism servers with us, we could do this.
 
Keep the discussions coming everyone. Get your opinion into the thread. Stay focused with ideas that are fun and practical.
"Build it and he will come. Ray, you can even charge people. They won't mind paying, because it will remind them of their childhood"... Sorry that was a movie.:P
 
I would just like to add for the people who are suggesting Instant respawn Kalt. This should never be an option, the rounds would never end. It shouldn't even be considered. Just my opinion

-Kiwi
 
Yes, C-WHiT, would you mind expanding on why it made the server crash? I, too, am curious if it is something we could potentially avoid because you're right--a crashed server for a week isn't an option.

Back in the day, (not even two years ago). Before houses dissolved, advisors were placed over specific servers.

Weird...I played Kalt on a near-nightly basis since August '09 and somehow didn't know that at all. Ya learn something new every day.

Sorry for the double

There are 5 admins on here more than willing to help run, train, and do whatever to get the realism server running: Death_Keeper, Kiwi, Skippy, Yospankdawg and Myself. There are more admins, and es, who play on the other realism servers with us, we could do this.

Foolish mortal! You should know better... Besides, by the technical definitions of the ranks, I am not an "admin" and do not have the ability to use those commands (though, yes, I would be willing and capable of such).

I would just like to add for the people who are suggesting Instant respawn Kalt. This should never be an option, the rounds would never end. It shouldn't even be considered. Just my opinion

-Kiwi

Yeah, I actually commented on that but I think it was on a post that was deleted:

We used to regularly have rounds go an hour....sometimes 3-4 hours. Instant respawn would make never-ending rounds lol. The Axis First is RIGHT outside of spawn, so it would be hard to take/hold...and also that would give Axis an advantage that some claim they have already.
 
Foolish mortal! You should know better... Besides, by the technical definitions of the ranks, I am not an "admin" and do not have the ability to use those commands (though, yes, I would be willing and capable of such).

I hate to break it to you spankie but according to the Start Here thread in the Personnel Service Center and if I recall most of the MOTDs
All =(eG)=? and =(eGO)=? members have server admin responsibilities.
That makes you an admin.

Sure an eG does not have the capability of banning people and yes they are admins in training but the emphasis is on ADMIN.

eG's when you enter an EdgeGamers server you have responsibilities. Remembering that and setting a good example on the server is how you get an O.

AS far as the Kalt / Realism discussion I would like to return to my earlier post. Let's do something different! Some map that does not involve fighting through a village.
 
I hate to break it to you spankie but according to the Start Here thread in the Personnel Service Center and if I recall most of the MOTDs
That makes you an admin.

Sure an eG does not have the capability of banning people and yes they are admins in training but the emphasis is on ADMIN.

I think YSD might be referring to lack of access to the Realism mod commands, but I could be wrong. Been a while since I was a G and can't remember if Gs have access or not.
 
Keep the discussions coming everyone. Get your opinion into the thread. Stay focused with ideas that are fun and practical.
"Build it and he will come. Ray, you can even charge people. They won't mind paying, because it will remind them of their childhood"... Sorry that was a movie.:P

+1

The discussion started off a little scratchy, but with more people posting their opinions I think we're all learning something or other, whether or not we eventually get what we individually wish for with the Argentan server.

Remember, if you post an opinion, try to include your rationale too...it helps others to understand your position better.
 
Is the option for using the Event Server for other special maps/events an option. Maybe not realism, or maybe even realism when an Advisor or someone is on to operate it?
 
Weird...I played Kalt on a near-nightly basis since August '09 and somehow didn't know that at all. Ya learn something new every day.

Actually at one point there were two advisors per map. Myself and AlaskaGirl ran Kalt. We strived on ensuring Kalt was fun to play. Without letting control go over to the masses.

This concludes your history lesson.
 
I think YSD might be referring to lack of access to the Realism mod commands, but I could be wrong. Been a while since I was a G and can't remember if Gs have access or not.

Yeah Quaffer...don't get me wrong--I handle my responsibilities as an admin, but I was clearly referencing the fact that I don't have an O and, thereby, the commands/abilities that come with it. :)

Actually at one point there were two advisors per map. Myself and AlaskaGirl ran Kalt. We strived on ensuring Kalt was fun to play. Without letting control go over to the masses.

This concludes your history lesson.

I've never even heard of AlaskaGirl. Haha wow. I thought I got here a few months after houses ended, but....maybe it was a busy few months!
 
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Yeah Quaffer...don't get me wrong--I handle my responsibilities as an admin, but I was clearly referencing the fact that I don't have an O and, thereby, the commands/abilities that come with it. :)



I've never even heard of AlaskaGirl. Haha wow. I thought I got here a few months after houses ended, but....maybe it was a busy few months!

This quote made me feel real old in eGO...

But I do like the idea of the use of the event server.
 
Kalt instant respawn and kalt rotation would be a big drawl i think....as long as there is something different to attract ppl...either way i think it will be a win win
 
Being able to realism only when an advisor is on would completely destroy the premise for the idea. The advisors have a lot to do already and wouldn't want to sit around just to realism on maybe even a nightly bases... using the event server would also destroy most of the rationale behind this idea...Communities build servers, not PM lists. Having a server that is realism only and not open to the public otherwise is a waste of eGO's time and resources. opening the event server to be a normal map would destroy the opportunity to events (it's not just to kick pubs off a server for an event)
 
KALT KALT KALT KALT KALT!!!!! either instant respawn or original...dont care as long as its KALT!!!!!
 
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I like realism, but at the same time its a real pain in the butt. What most of you dont realize is the amount of time and effort that has gone into starting our realism night, keeping it going, and most recently starting the campaign. Frankly, weve even had to take breaks from realism alltogether to increase attendance because our members started to grow tired of it and now some of you want a realism server?

A lot of you have been playing in non-eGO realisms and dedicated realism servers and theres nothing wrong with that. I get the invites from a lot of you to join and normally its right after the eGO realism. The reason i decline is because im flat-out tired. Every week basically 2 to 4 TAs have to answer questions, hear complaints, run the mods (every round and most of the time more than once a round), and try to keep our own members in line for hours at a time. When you have responsibilities invested in the game as opposed to just playing it, you get worn out. As any of the CINCs we have had so far can tell you. I cant think of one CINC that has volunteered to give it another run. But you guys have always been able to look forward to Saturdays and even when we dont feel like it we show up for all of you.

Its written in numerous places in eGO that youre here to #1 have fun and #2 admin. Running the realism doesnt apply to this. I cant speak for anyone else, but the reason i keep doing it is for all of you. Realism isnt a new invention but for some odd reason its the craze all of a sudden. What you fail to see is that eGO is about everyone, not just your liking.

Yes, Kalt is to my liking and frankly its to a lot of peoples. But realism is almost a completely different game. Theres a rank structure, there are additional rules, and mods. What you want is to make a public server into a private club. Like someone mentioned, most realism servers have passwords (even if theyre realism 99% of the time) and the only people who play in them are well versed in realism. However, you cant expect the random DoD player to hop in a realism server and if a vote passes be told to line up on the wall, dont talk, stay on the allies, wait to get picked for a team, no you cant have that gun, no that part of the map isnt allowed, not you cant hit the skybox, oh yeah ff is on, if you die you have to wait until everyone else dies and comply 100% of the time.

I made a reference to the jail server for a few reasons. i believe that the jail server is a blight because of the complexity required to play it, the lack of knowledge the admins possess, the unwillingness of pubs to comply, and because a majority of admins see it as an easy place to get a kick or a ban in. If we do have a realism server i guarantee that it will be more of a burden than a blessing. I know youre thinking "If that was true then why are so many realism servers successful?" -- That answers itself, because realism units operate realism servers and frequent other realism units servers.

Kalt died because of low numbers and because for the large part it was forgotten. However, it hasnt been completely forgotten by our members. Some of us have made every effort to attend Kalt night. There have been numerous threads about kalt, and countless posts. This very thread should be a triumph for Kalt instead of a struggle.

After months, MONTHS of trying to show up to Kalt night in efforts of bringing back that server leadership decides to give us some options and what i had hoped would one day be a "heres Kalt, have fun, dont let it die" has turned into "heres another chance to have realism 24/7 or when the majority votes for it!" Well im not buying it.

I have a ton of respect for everyone in our division, but sadly my optimism stops there unless proven otherwise. I can count about a dozen pubs whom i truly respect because i know they have an equal amount of respect for me, and largely i base the amount of respect i have for a person based on their merits and attitude.

What im hearing here is a group of my very good, DoD veteran friends wanting something im strongly opposed to-- which makes it hard for me to argue with them. I understand your love of realism but at the same time i hope you can understand the time, commitment, and hassle that realism is.

Like i stated earlier but i didnt expand on was the fact that it takes several minutes to get our own members in line for a realism. People who have been playing since the very beginning but for some reason still dont hear or dont want to listen to commands. Now, what im understanding is that this same group of people is expected to run a (yet to be created mod) to allow for a majority vote, designate at least two admins to run the mod, and then somehow keep all of the pubs and members from leaving the server, or w/k/b if they do not understand or conform to realim rules.

Heres why i think we should have Kalt back:

1. Many of our members have wanted Kalt to return.
2. Running any variation of Kalt will require no additional mods or admin training.
3. Member commitment will likely keep the server maintained (like Anzio).
4. Cooperation from pubs is the same as other servers.
5. If it dies again leadership could have its cake and eat it too.
6. Pubs who frequent eGO servers will also help maintain kalt.
7. many more

Heres why i dont think we should have a realism server:

1. It will require mods we do not have
2. Admins will have to be trained or retrained to handle server-specific commands and rules (like Jail school)
3. The chance of losing pubs or members on map switches or realism initializations is high
4. The server will require password protection.
5. Most DoD players are not highly active in realisms.
6. Realism units endorse cursing, we will be entering into a field that is largely contrary to eGO rules and expecting visitors to obey them.
7. The complexity of realism for casual players and admins may dissuade them from returning.
8. Our current realism mod is prone to errors and crashes the server.
9. In addition to new admin commands and training admins we may be required to use a rank structure outside of e, eG, eGO.
10. The server would require at least one admin to be present 24/7 to operate the server.
11. The server would not be condusive to pubs who are not familiar with realism but joined before the vote carried over.
12. The amount of contest bans and ban requests will likely increase because of the complex nature of realism and the subsequent rules.
13. Admins not from DoD may not be familiar with new rules and cause problems (like some other divisions causing problems in Jail).
14. itll be like jail except in DoD-- can you stand that amount of shame?
 
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