Vayne rune discussion

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Carmine

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So far on Vayne I have decided on everything but quints. I find Armor Penetration reds, flat Armor Yellows, and flat Magic Resist blues work really well for her harassment in the early game because she is so squishy.

For quintessences I find it's a throw up between Armor Penetration, Movement Speed, and Health Regeneration. Armor Pen makes her harass harder, Movement Speed lets her chase to harass easier, and Health Regen solidifies her lane advantage better when she takes damage. Thoughts on which quints are best?
 
I would go with Armor pen because not only does your harass get stronger you also are stronger late game. If not I'd go health Regen just because its nice not to always have to back.
 
Well, what's your typical build? (also 1st item(s)

I would go with Armor Pen or Health Regen since you already have movespeed from the passive.
 
Well when I have been playing vayne I have had to base a lot in the start so I might try health regen and see how that works
 
Movement speed sounds the best because once they start chasing you, you're super slow compared to running at them.
 
Kariak said:
I would go with Armor pen because not only does your harass get stronger you also are stronger late game. If not I'd go health Regen just because its nice not to always have to back.
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Armor pen doesn't scale very well into late game. Attack Damage does better once they start outdoing your armor penetration. It is mostly an early game stat.

General consensus seems to be health regen, which is really nice combined with Strength of Spirit. (most overpowered mastery in the game)
 
Oo Woody oO said:
Hp quints are the best.
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Stop holding on to the past, HP quints aren't what they used to be.

As a matter of fact, I don't even use them anymore. AP Quints are great on almost any mage, Armor Penetration Quints power up all carries, and Health Regen is more effective over time than the 60 or so health. When you get better you don't need the larger health pool as much because you don't make as many mistakes.
 
Carmine said:
Stop holding on to the past, HP quints aren't what they used to be.

As a matter of fact, I don't even use them anymore. AP Quints are great on almost any mage, Armor Penetration Quints power up all carries, and Health Regen is more effective over time than the 60 or so health. When you get better you don't need the larger health pool as much because you don't make as many mistakes.
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:D They may not be a must for every champion now but they are still useful.
 
Carmine said:
Armor pen doesn't scale very well into late game. Attack Damage does better once they start outdoing your armor penetration. It is mostly an early game stat.

General consensus seems to be health regen, which is really nice combined with Strength of Spirit. (most overpowered mastery in the game)
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How is Armor pen not good late game? If you don't have armor pen you don't do as much to champs with armor...... You get a static 25 arp with reds and quints with a brutalizer you would counter a chain mail. With Vayne that is extremely important. She's an assassin and can burst champs with out defense pretty hard. That's my opinion and my play style.
 
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Kariak said:
How is Armor pen not good late game? If you don't have armor pen you don't do as much to champs with armor...... You get a static 25 arp with reds and quints with a brutalizer you would counter a chain mail. With Vayne that is extremely important. She's an assassin and can burst champs with out defense pretty hard. That's my opinion and my play style.
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I got the two mixed up. Armor pen is better late game, while Attack damage is superior early game.


From LoL forums:



Armor pen or Attack damage?

Current greater mark of strength gives

+0.95 damage X 9 = 8.55 damage

Current greater mark of desolation gives

+1.66 armor penetration X 9 = 14.94 armor pen

Time to whip out my calculator
__________________________________________________ ____________

Because I have no idea how to make a spreadsheet, I shall be assuming several different scenarios.

1. Tristana has 50 damage (roughly level 1)
2. Tristana has 100 damage (roughly level 9 with basic items)
3. Tristana has 300 damage (roughly level 18 with farmed up stuff)

(keep in mind that crits alter the damage of both armor pen and direct damage equally, so I will not put these into account)

Tristana will be attacking

1. Fiddlesticks with 30 armor
2. Garen with 100 armor
3. Rammus with 300 armor
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________
Scenario 1

Tristana 1 (50 base damage) with +8.55 damage

VS fiddlesticks

58.55 X (100/130) = 45.0 damage

Vs garen

58.55 X (100/200) = 29.3 damage

Vs Rammus

58.55 X (100/400) = 14.6 damage
-------------------------

Tristana 1 with +14.94 armor pen (I'll assume 15 armor penetration for the sake of not giving me a headache)

VS fiddlesticks

50 X (100/115) = 43.5 damage

Vs garen

50 X (100/185) = 27.0 damage

Vs Rammus

50 X (100/385) = 13.0 damage

________________________________________________-
So in scenario one it goes...

Enemy-----Damage-----------Armor pen
Fiddles-------45.0-----------------43.5
Garen---------29.3-----------------27.0
Rammus-----14.6-----------------13.0

tl;dr raw damage is better early game

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________
Scenario 2

Tristana 2 (100 base damage) with +8.55 damage

VS fiddlesticks

108.55 X (100/130) = 83.5 damage

Vs garen

108.55 X (100/200) = 54.3 damage

Vs Rammus

108.55 X (100/400) = 27.1 damage
-------------------------

Tristana 2 with +14.94 armor pen (once again simplified a bit)

VS fiddlesticks

100 X (100/115) = 87.0 damage

Vs garen

100 X (100/185) = 54.1 damage

Vs Rammus

100 X (100/385) = 26.0 damage

________________________________________________-
So in scenario two it goes...

Enemy-----Damage-----------Armor pen
Fiddles-------83.5-----------------87.0
Garen---------54.3-----------------54.1
Rammus-----27.1-----------------26.0

tl;dr Armor pen and raw damage equal out around this point when you have ~100 damage while the enemy has ~100 armor. Raw damage is still a tad bit better imo.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________
Scenario 3

Tristana 3 (300 base damage with big guns loaded) with +8.55 damage

VS fiddlesticks

308.55 X (100/130) = 237.3 damage

Vs garen

308.55 X (100/200) = 154.3 damage

Vs Rammus

308.55 X (100/400) = 77.1 damage
-------------------------

Tristana 3 with +14.94 armor pen (once again simplified a bit)

VS fiddlesticks

300 X (100/115) = 260.9 damage

Vs garen

300 X (100/185) = 162.2 damage

Vs Rammus

300 X (100/385) = 77.9 damage

________________________________________________-
So in scenario two it goes...

Enemy-----Damage-----------Armor pen
Fiddles-------237.3---------------260.9
Garen---------154.3---------------162.2
Rammus-----77.1-----------------77.9
 
Carmine said:
Stop holding on to the past, HP quints aren't what they used to be.

As a matter of fact, I don't even use them anymore. AP Quints are great on almost any mage, Armor Penetration Quints power up all carries, and Health Regen is more effective over time than the 60 or so health. When you get better you don't need the larger health pool as much because you don't make as many mistakes.
Click to expand...

HP regen runes are great when you're still laning. You can stay on your lane a bit longer. Late game you want the static HP so that you can survive big attacks better. HP regen wont help you much if you get nuked down in 3 seconds.
 
Jawneh said:
HP regen runes are great when you're still laning. You can stay on your lane a bit longer. Late game you want the static HP so that you can survive big attacks better. HP regen wont help you much if you get nuked down in 3 seconds.
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When playing a squishy character it is better to avoid getting bursted at all. Vayne has this ability with her stealth and knockback/stun. The health regen helps a ton in standoffs and poke wars which happen quite often.
 
Armour pen runes and a small sword for starting items are what I like to do for most of my champions. Best of both worlds :D
 
Oo Woody oO said:
Armour pen runes and a small sword for starting items are what I like to do for most of my champions. Best of both worlds :D
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Why would you ever start with a longsword over a Doran's Blade on anyone but Warwick?
 
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