Games in cell block suck, but I don't think they should be banned. Someone can take them all outside and just do lr/fr simon says all day. At least it's outside I guess!
This has been addressed but I'll repost it, games
ARE NOT being banned, we're just wanting them moved to another area such as pool, soccer, climb, etc.
I'll have to disagree on this one because there are a LOT of games that can be played in cell block that are quite fun and get the round moving like having a race, high/low sprays, spraying as close as you can to a line, match your skin and so on. There are also those sometimes fun sometimes annoying games like fr/lr and simon says that aren't the greatest but they do get the round moving by eliminating the ts.
The games built into the maps, or the areas built into the maps are used for eliminating prisoners, using solely the cell block ruins the fun of jail and ruins the point of having these well made maps that the mappers in eGO have worked on.
What if you wanted to play a quick game to get an st like temptation but in order to do that you would have to move half way across the map to an open area where it suits the ts and the cts and then proceed with the game. And having games like fl/lr and simon says that apparently no one likes still playable, they can still be played out side or in an open area which will still bore the ts, not to mention the 30+ seconds it would take to shift/crouch walk there because most strict wardens don't order ts to run places.
Half way across the map? Usually something like pool, soccer, disco, climb, etc are only 50-100 feet away and sometimes not even that.
Another down side to this is the dispute between players and admins will have when deciding whether or not an area is actually part of the cell block in maps like Black Ops, Oswald, Darkness, Prisonbreak, HandOfThrawn etc.
To be honest, if you can't differentiate the difference between cell block and not cell block then its better to be safe and use an area clearly marked as not cell block such as mentioned above pool, soccer, climb, etc. Prison break final is not hard to tell if you're in the cell block or not and while it is a huge part of the map, the pool, showers, bathrooms, kitchen, yoga, solitary are a short ways out of cell block.
I don't think this rule should be set in place because most games that people dislike are played in cell block so the problem is not the location, it's the games.
The games themselves are not really the problem, they're great for killing off a few at the start but what happened over time is people started to just sit in cell block and play these 3-4 games until there were 5 or less then go somewhere. Many people want to use more of the map and do different things. I know if it was climb, race, soccer, deathrun, pool, in that order for the whole map it'd still be more fun than sitting in cell block for 8+ minutes every round.
I'd have to disagree too. Because even though there are wardens that just play lr/fr and Simon in cell block, there are other wardens that play fun and creative games in cells. If cell block games are banned, people are just going to move them a few steps out of cell block, tell them to line up, and play the exact same games.
The games you can do in cell block you can outside of cell block. The point of this rule is to move the terrorists and prevent stale rounds and causing people to become bored and leave.
Its not the games in cellblock that is the problem its the creativity of the warden in general. if you stop someone from playing a boring game in cellblock chances most likely are they will play a game just as boring somewhere else. I dont think banning cellblock from games will change much. Everyone should just start to rebel in my honest opinion.... if you dont think the warden is fun make your own fun
In a way this is trying to encourage wardens to be creative and use the maps and their tools at their disposal rather than just chilling in cell block because they don't realize what the map has to offer. Also its a bit hard to rebel though when you cant make a run for a vent or escape from guards watching you.
So the way I see this is;
Some maps allow for games to be played in the cellblock, while others do not.
For instance, on ba_jail_prisonbreak_final the center cage is often used for various games but this is located in the center of the cellblock. Which makes a rule like this very had the enforce, since it would have to be different for each map. Making it awfully confusing for new players.
Another aspect of this is, it can be very difficult for the warden to move a large quantity of Terrorists without a rebellion. Lowering the numbers before moving them greatly helps the warden in my opinion.
tl;dr No.
As mentioned above, if you can't differentiate the difference between cell block and not cell block then its better to be safe and use an area clearly marked as not cell block such as mentioned above pool, soccer, climb, etc. Prison break final is not hard to tell if you're in the cell block or not and while it is a huge part of the map, the pool, showers, bathrooms, kitchen, yoga, solitary are a short ways out of cell block.
To me, all those games you mentioned are played so much that they have become boring. Like other people have said, if games in cell block are banned, wardens will simply move the Ts a step or two outside of cell block and then do the games.
Hence why we want people to move out, even if they just walk out 3 feet and play the same games we're hoping that it helps the wardens realize there's more to the maps than just a cell block.
I'd rather get rid of fr/lr and simon says. I've seen rounds where those two games were the only games played (and yeah, those stayed in cell block). Not to mention, it isn't that uncommon for the wrong people to get killed. Plus, it seems simon says has been causing trouble lately with people giving odd orders during it or not knowing that movement commands cancel it out. When trivia (which had became a boring game) was banned, it was replaced with simon says and fr/lr which are just as boring. At least trivia was sometimes able to be spiced up with people who did true trivia (not 2+2) where as simon says and fr/lr are the same thing everytime. Just my 2 cents.
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Originally we had FR/LR and simon says banned and trivia not. Trivia was eventually abused to the point of today's cell block days and was limited to one question but it got to the point it took wardens too long that it was banned. Then we let people do Simon Says and FR/LR because well I'm not sure why because originally microphone lag was the problem with both but we let FR/LR only be text and not simon says... So not sure why we allowed those but something around it helps kill off prisoners if they have a rebellion and then its contained and to kill some off as a lesson to the others? I dont know @_@ ...
Why just not one short mini-game on the cell block each round?
We tried to do that with trivia with 1 question per round, four minutes later they were done with it... Short or one game in cell block per round doesn't help because it still will usually take too much time. It would be easier this way but again it would end up like trivia's one question per round.
So if those games are boring to most people that just further displays why this rule shouldn't be enforced because they will just be played elsewhere anyway, still making them boring.
It's better to be able to be moved so you can rebel than sit there with zero chance. People say if you don't like it rebel, but if you the guards sit there and laugh at you cause they know you can't run any where then whats the point of trying? People also say there's vent cells, a bit hard to get to when you're lined up on a wall 20 feet away and 10+ guards watching you.
Disagree with the proposal and i agree wholeheartedly with Xavier. I personally think time shouldn't be wasted on this topic, but good to see some ideas being put forward!
All the rule in question is purposing that we move them out so we don't end up with stale cell block rounds with no chance of rebelling and so forth. Nothing more, nothing less.
The topic of Sts is a whole different argument and Sts will always be given by wardens until a different rule is set in place. And my point about those games that most people don't enjoy in cell block is that they will just be played elsewhere and be just as boring and the time taken getting to those locations will bore ts even more (Mostly shift/crouch walking half way across the map).
Half way across the map? Usually something like pool, soccer, disco, climb, etc are only 50-100 feet away and sometimes not even that.
It wont take all round to get there and even if its that far at least prisoners have a chance to escape if guards aren't paying attention rather than having to guess if they're going to make it out of cell block or not before 5 guards turn to them and open fire.
This rule that many people are voting for is to eliminate the Ts being bored in cell block playing boring games and yet you encourage making ts crouch/shift walk all over the map to play the same boring games without a rebellion. Moving the ts safely across the map without a rebellion is classified IMO as boring.
Thats the point of the games on the map. A) Guards move the prisoners to these games to allow for escaping and rebelling, hence why they're usually spread out enough to allow this unless the guards are decent or better to have them able to safely move them unless the prisoners work AS A TEAM(?) to escape as a group. B) The games are meant to eliminate them in a decently fun or at the very least, an interactive way.
I do agree with you that Simon says and fr/lr should be banned though as they are not fun and they get nothing but complaints. This poll should be about whether or not to ban those games I think @_@.
They're not the problem, its the fact people are not realizing they can use more the map and instead sitting in cell block all round long and playing them. It allows for 0.001% chance of rebelling compared to a higher chance if they were moved to a new area and then the guards (wardens) can see that theres other things on the maps they can do.
The reason I am arguing my case so much in this thread is because I really do not want to see this rule set in place as I believe it will effect the jail server in a very negative way, making it less popular.
So sitting in cell block all round and playing these games isn't hurting the server popularity at all? People come to play jail all map long to sit in one area and not do anything? Doesn't sound right to me. For the last 3-4 years I've seen people come to play jail because its a role playing game and as the terrorist you're supposed to break out and rebel and as a CT you're playing a guard keeping the prisoners in check and eliminating them by ways of the games built in or hunting the rebellers down.
Maps are made for a reason, not to be put into cell block and waste the rest of the map. So yes, great suggestion.
Exactly, I could right now make a map thats just an open cell block + cells with an attached armory via cat walk on the second floor and all people could do is play cell block games, but IT DOESN'T SOUND FUN. Maps were built with these games, vents, etc to make it fun and interesting for both sides to enjoy.
Oh boy, I don't like this at all.
Banning games in cell block won't solve anything. It will just cause the wardens to use the same game every round (Climb, Race, Etc.) and cause it to be more repetitive.
As mentioned above, sitting in a cell block for 8 minutes is more fun than moving around the map and using it as it was designed by the mappers? Having an extremely limited chance is more fun than being able to escape if guards aren't paying attention to you when moving you area to area?
I'd rather not have to do anymore of that then I have to. Anyways, a lot of the jail maps kind of need cell block as a place for killing the Ts and such.
Cell blocks were originally designed for the area the cells (with T spawns), having a meeting place where the guards could know where the prisoners were (minus those evil ones rebelling
) and finally as a place to check if all prisoners were accounted for and if they had weapons or not. It was not designed to sit there all round and play games over and over.
I only see this as further limiting what we can do on jailbreak and this may just cause us to lose more of the old player base for jail.
We cant lose more than we're loosing now due to not doing anything but cell block days... Pretty sure most of our player base is getting sick of doing nothing all round long and all map long...
Since the main reason that this rule will most likely pass is the fact that it gives ts more opportunities to rebel which I think is a big mistake. Most of the people agreeing with the rule are GOOD at rebelling and want to rebel every round. This rule isn't really accounting for the people that want to chill out and play the games to get lr.
Which is why people usually play as a prisoner to rebel and kill. The core game is Counter Strike where one team is pitted against the other and each one has an objective of that map. In these maps, terrorists or prisoners are wanting to break out and kill the guards. While the Counter Terrorists or guards in this case, are wanting to keep control of the prisoners and prevent riots. Jail has never been about trying to get LR, if you made it that far its because A) you're not a great rebeller, B) didn't have any good chances, C) pulled a Ric all round long and the CTs failed to notice or D) are new to the map and not sure of the rebelling options you have.
What if there aren't a group of great rebellers on t and the cts have a great side of strict cts. The ts will most certainly not rebel and if they do will be gunned down by the good cts. Even if they t team did have 2-3 good rebellers, what if in 5 out of 10 rounds they get killed while rebelling meaning that moving the ts elsewhere to play boring games has been a waste of time.
If the guards are good they prevent rebellions like as intended and the prisoners could be new to the map, or unsure of if they can escape and make it. I know there's times I don't try to escape because I don't have a good feeling if I'll be able to or not.
I want to see how all of the players that play jail to chill out and get lr (which I think is most players) feel when they're shift/crouch walked to random places around the map to play boring games. I think the good rebellers in this thread are just thinking about themselves.
Again, Jail's a role playing game with one side trying to kill the other side and vice versa, getting to LR and killing the CTs in a bad LR without even trying isn't really fun nor creative. If I wanted to do that, I could just play with bots give them knives and wished them the best of luck versus my AWP, M249, even glock.
I vote NO.
Cell block games are no different then games such as climb and race. Their overplayed and used when wardens can't come up with new games. Look at a map like Canyon, it NEVER cycles without someone playing race/climb 3-4 times. This proposed ban would just limit the amount of overused "stale" games to the wardens disposal. We must face the fact that every warden is NOT creative, however we are inclusive enough to give everyone their chance at warden. In my mind, this ban would make as much sense as banning Canyon's race from being played at all.
Rather do race than sit in cell block all round... Usually people tend to use more of the map when they know it exists. I know many wardens that play on a map like Maximum Redux and go "There's an upstairs race?" because all the do is stuff in cell block, the couch room or outside. Is every warden like this, no. But its the hopes of trying to get them to do new things instead of the same games requiring little effort of being a guard or warden.
Now for us "creative" wardens, cell block is a plethora of games waiting to be made. "Narnia" is a recent example of this. Anyone who has played grand marble knows about the bottom right vent cell that leads straight to your death. Well I decided to name that "narnia" and offer a free trip to no where to the Ts if they wanted to. Sure, the T willingly suicides, but everyone has a blast doing it and joking about being "in narnia" in chat. Its a way to thin the heard and move the game along. This would have not been able to happen if this ban was already set in place.
Suiciding isn't a game. Can't ban the 'kill' command in console so thats a null point.
That however is just one example, but I cannot fill jail with "cell block friendly" games alone. It takes players like you to create new games. It doesn't matter if their in cell block or not. When we get to a point of boredom about jail due to replayed games, we tend to nit-pick and try to blame one thing in an attempt for the satisfaction of fixing the problem. However the true solution lies in the creation of new games. "Panda's Corner" and "find your skin" were blasts to play when they were created. However, over time they got old and need replacements.
My point is, at one time, these games (Created in none other than cell block) were fun, exciting, and enjoyable. There's no reason to ban cell block for games when great games come from cell block.
So they should invent new games in a cell block rather than use the rest of the map for other creative games if they tried? Finding your skin is just the same as get to a certain point of the map or whatever. Its not really a game but more of something other to do than the usuall 4 games used in cell block. It can also be used without a cell block...
I am going to offer 2 solutions for you to use at your disposal.
1) Restrict cell block at X time. Kind of like how we restrict garage for CTs in office. Still allows cell block games to be played, but keeps the round from being ONLY in cell block.
-EXCEPTION: LRs may return to cell block if so desired. It is their last request.
2)Open up a sticky for JAIL GAME SUGGESTIONS/IDEAS. Make sticky closed thread. Players PM CS leadership or post in forums their great new jail game ideas. Leadership decides what games sound good and add to sticky. This allows wardens that are "out of ideas" a place to go and try ideas they never thought of.
-FINAL NOTE: Make sticky accessible through in game command (i.e. !jailgames). Allows CTs to read up on some new game ideas BEFORE they play
-CLEAN UP: "stale" games get removed from suggestion sticky, go into a brown box, get put on shelf in basement, stored like fine wine for long time, pulled out in future, RECYCLING!
-DOOM
Restricting by a time isn't a good way because it may take wardens a certain time to get the prisoners to the grate, wall, etc. If the guards having mic problems or lagging for a bit this also eats up that time. We usually don't care if people create new games (Like Veridian did with his game) as long as its fair and doesn't break the rules. People can come up with games on the spot or use games they've seen as I have witnessed. No ones stopping them from being creative.
I have to say no. even though it will get the ts out of cell block its not going to stop them from doing boring games, for example when cell doors open shift walk outside so we can play Simon or fr/lr. You are still going to be playing the pointless game so by banning this you are just making the round longer.
As mentioned many times above its better than having zero chance of rebelling and creates the hopes of the wardens using more of the maps than jus the cell block.
I'll put responsibility on the warden. I tried being a little creative by playing Simon while moving the Ts (aka Simon says shift walk, herpaderp walk, etc...), but SOMEONE said that the movement command would cancel Tue game...I do know this rule, but it didn't say anything about playing a game WHILE moving the Ts...just trying to be creative.
I'm glad you tried but yes movement commands cancel out simon says. However at least trying to move them out of cell block gets an A in my book even if it was simon says as they at least at that point can run off or rebel or what ever they choose.
It's not an issue. Why should you force me to go outside when I'M the warden? If you don't want to be in cell, rebel or follow my commands. There's vents in cell, and people STILL rebel while being in cell-block. I could see if this stalemated the round every round, but Prisoners are still successful while being in cell-block. Forcing the Warden to move the Prisoners should not be required and is an unnecessary forced task. If the Warden wants to move the Prisoners on free-will, do it. There's maps T-sided enough where being trapped in cell-block wouldn't really matter. Like Rogue's new map where cell block is dark and Prisoners have a lot of chances at rebellion, just from being in cell-block.
You can't really rebel if you sit against a wall, fence, on a spray, etc. We just want people to be moved a bit to give them a chance.If you're referring to Prospekt, there are no vents in the cells nor true close to cell block. If you mean Alcatraz if the Ts are moved to the wall close to the fence in the back or the grate and the CTs are decent again its hard to rebel. Since on both maps its random if cells will open (prospekt) or vents will be breakable (alcatraz) it makes it difficult if for that round the RNG (Random Number Generator) which chooses the scenario for that round (keeping it simple), decides to be CT sided for round after round or the Ts dont spawn in the cells that are opened or vents breakable.
Forcing too many "rules" upon the Warden may discourage new people from learning our style of Jail, it's complex. We already have enough admins acting like US homeland security when a Warden/Guard makes a mistake.
tl;dr I disagree with you, but I love you.
Our style of jail and sitting in cell block also loses people from coming back when they see half the rounds sitting in a cell block doing nothing but the same games and not using the rest of the map. We love you too, stay AFK in the armory so you can spot them rebellers for us
!
p.s.
I wouldn't want this rule to turn the Warden's into becoming stagnate. Develop your personality in Jail, whatever it may be. This is Jail, a roleplaying environment. If you want to be seen as the uncreative warden who does Simon Says, followed by LR/FR, followed by high spray contest in Jail while being in cell-block, do it. You'll only be remembered for what you create. It is up the Prisoners to establish their rebellion, no matter if it's in cell-block, soccer field, heal, climb, etc.
I agree they should rebel if they don't like the current warden's choice of stuff to do but in a cell block on many of the maps thats really impossible.
Like Ric said, I personally have had plenty of successful rebels in cell block. Making rebeling hard is part of the fun. Make it too easy, it gets boring (see Alcatraz and Prospekt for examples of it being too easy it can get boring). I can see this making it way too easy on some maps.
Also, if this rule is passed, you are going to see so much chat spam from Ts about "YOU HAVE TO MOVE US OUTSIDE" and "YOU CAN'T KEEP US IN HERE".
If CT's bait then yes its an easy rebellion or if one gets a vent cell and knows what they're doing but usually that's not the case. If they're spamming then they can be W/K/B. Guards can still move them to a fence, grate, spray, etc to make sure all prisoners are there and accounted for.
Honestly I think the balance in Jail right now is fine (coming from someone who plays 75% T, 25% CT). If the Ts have their heads straight (like Texan) they'll win. If the CTs have some good, smart players, they'll be able to control the Ts for the most part. Put this rule in place and I think the balance will go straight to Ts being able to easily rebel. Sitting in cell block has been a problem since way back when I first joined 3 years ago and Trivia was allowed (it was far worse back then, trust me. Many times if you didn't get ST, you weren't going anywhere). Jail is never going to be 100% excitement and I think most of the players that play jail know that and are fine with that.
With out Texan, many lone rebellers dont stand a chance. Jail is about teamwork on both sides and always has been about teamwork. When you get that one superstar lone ranger, the whole team relies on them to do everything and when they fail it usually turns out bad for that team unless enough damage and casualties is given to the opposing team.
Howzabout making a rule where wardens can only play a set amount of games in cell block or perhaps by a certain time T's should be outta there to play elsewhere, having a ban on cellblock period may be troublesome.
I voted yes, seeing as not moving out is boring, but it'll be hard to admin like Mikkel said.
Both mentioned above.
Warden's who are hell bent on being boring and playing LR/FR, Simon Says, and Spray contests are not going to stop just because we tell them they can no longer do those games in cell block. They will simply move the T's out of cell block and continue to play those games anyway. I play jail quite a bit, honestly, this isn't a big issue. It is very rare where even half of a round is played in the cell block. The warden plug-in allows for a diverse selection of wardens which usually makes this a non issue.
I have seen many rounds on a map take place in a cell block. The warden plug in helps relieve that unless of course for some reason its the same warden or same couple of wardens and they usually sit in cell block then its a problem.
outside into other areas, be it soccer field, a roof, pool, or even 5 feet outside the cell block as others are saying. It's not necessarily about WHERE the games are played, but rather that the games are being played elsewhere, giving the terrorists more time and more chances to rebel, and moving them into a fresh new environment.
