DISCUSSION: Jail needs fixing!

No more than 5 minutes into the server I see people complain about things that shouldn't really cause that much of an issue.
For some people, the issues in this thread go beyond being a little issue, and are now repeated to the point that they are more of a spike in the side of jail. I myself try and constructively complain about these things in an attempt to get people themselves to change how they act in respect to the problem. As you said, some of these things can't be straight up banned, but they can have limitations put on them and there have been some good suggestions in this thread. But since a new rule would take a while to get discussed and possibly not even get put into place, I try and change where the problem comes from, which is the players.


If the right people are playing (i.e. the ones that just play and take it easy) I can manage a whole day in the server. However, the second players start losing their calmness and playing the server to have fun, then I am out.

I'm sure if the right people are playing, then anyone can manage a whole day in the server. However, rarely will each person have the "right people" playing to fit their own needs, so it's necessary for players to adapt to the changing of the guard. Also, that second sentence doesn't really make sense. "The second players start losing their calm and playing the server to have fun..." makes it sound like we aren't supposed to play to have fun, within the rules of course. Can you please elaborate on that?
 
Can you please elaborate on that?

What I meant was that as soon as people start freaking out about some issue that arose during the server and focus mainly on that (i.e. spam the mic with the problem and not drop it) then I leave.

It gets annoying coming into the server to hear the same things that people hate. Some of the things they want changed, and or 'banned,' are things that will come up time and time again.

Just have to learn to move on and put it in the past instead of focusing on that the whole time you're on the server.

Does it make more sense now RDK?
 
Heres an essay I wrote in RAW format... didnt get around to editing it for grammar and spelling...

How is it a server that was ranked in the top 100 is now barely under 1000, is it really the maps that are played? The players that play and contribute to the server? Or the server rules which dictate how the game mode is played? The following possibilities to the downfall of Jail could be the guards, the prisoners, the game play, the maps, the rules, or maybe something not in that list.

Lets start first with the guards, who have been as of lately, pretty lack luster. Many guards are just so bad it makes you question why they want to play as one. They fail to notice if someone is missing and rebelling, they fail to control the prisoners beyond the cell block, and they even fail to prevent themselves from baiting by not using areas designed for them. However, on the other end of the spectrum of guards there are those who are overly strict and tend to ruin the fun for prisoners just as much, or if not more, than those who are just poor guards. Those who are overly strict tend to shoot on sight of the smallest infraction such as shooting those who bumped their mouse and caused their in game character to twitch. These are the guards that cause a relaxed environment to be be an no-fun, unfair, and unrewarding playing environment.

To be a successful guard, one must be assertive. If a guard is passive or aggressive then they will cause the prisoners not to have fun or be able to do their objective of rebelling. If a team of guards is full of a assertive players, those who are able to control the prisoners but yet able to move them from area to area to have fun and give the chance of them to escape or rebel. A success team of guards will be able to have slightly more wins than the prisoners. Assertive guards know how not to bait by using areas designed for them. What areas are designed for them you may ask yourself? Well lets take a look. There first are the catwalks or raised pathways that make it hard for the prisoners to kill a guard with their knives. Next there are the guard towers which are towers that highly raised and may contains sniper rifles for long distance sharp shooting. Finally there are areas behind fences or glass windows that provide safety from knives and even bullets which allow guards to be on the same level as the prisoners but in safety. A good guard also knows if a prisoner is missing and trying to escape. Failure to do so or swiftly generally will result in a prisoner being able to kill multiple guards before being eliminated. If the guards are to win they must quickly assess the number of prisoners accounted for and swiftly eliminate those who are rebelling. Guards also must know how not to be too strict and prevent the prisoners from having a fun time. Finally, wardens should not use free days or 'Hide and Seek' days if they're team is taking heavy losses and do not have a lead over the prisoners. Either of these days should only be used if and only if the prisoners have not won many rounds and used to help improve their morale.

Next, the prisoners must be able to understand the Jail Break game play. Jail break was designed to be a team based game play mode in which the prisoners work as a team to over throw the guards and destroy the prison or escape from it. If the prisoners fail to work as a team against a team of assertive guards then they will fail to win. Prisoners should realize the games they play on the maps are actually there to help them rebel and escape. Without them the guards wouldn't move them around to areas and kill them off that way thus causing it to be much harder to rebel and escape. Prisoners should work as a team but not rely on each other to start a rebellion. If only one or two start to rebel but fail the rest should not see if they are successful or not otherwise those who waited may not get the chance to get a kill. As a team prisoners should coordinate when, where, and how to rebel therefore increasing their odds of winning. It is also up to the prisoners to notify their teammates if they are going to plant the bomb so that they may get in position to rebel, hide or run.

Now comes the game play and what is it now. Jail break originally was for the prisoners to rebel and the guards to prevent the rebellions. Now days it has become to the point where prisoners don't even know they should be rebelling and even complain when a bomb is planted thus making them all wanted. That was the objective not to sit around and twiddle their thumbs. It was up to the whole to team work together to win not just a lone ranger. On the other side, guards should also not just let prisoners walk off because they're afraid to shoot them or fail to even notice them leave. They should work together to keep the prisoners in check and still allow the prisoners to have fun by utilizing the map without playing games in cell block for half of the round. Guards should also prioritize defusing the bomb and not killing prisoners unless they're in their way to said objective. In addition to the following, some say its the maps' fault that Jail is dying but is it really? Lets take a look at the maps which have many things to do on them from swimming in a pool, to climb an obstacle course to fooling around in a cafeteria and even racing on a large course. Many guards fail to use the map and what it has to offer saying there isn't anything to do but in reality there is tons of stuff to do whether its basic games in areas like climb, race, maze, etc to innovating new games for those areas to make it more interesting and less repetitive. Adding new, or former maps to the server will only help boost population for a while before the hype is over and the population dies out again. It is said putting a band aid on a severed limb will only help so much before the injury is just too much for such a small solution.

Maps such as 'Prison Break Final', 'Alcatraz (Jail Break Version)', 'Prospekt', and others are being called boring when there's nothing to do on them but a few things. Lets start with 'Prison Break Final' or PBF for short. This map has a kitchen, pool, sauna, bathrooms, solitary, yoga, and an out side. There's many things to do if the warden chooses to be innovative such as an interesting game in yoga where they must exercise or be killed or solitary where one cell will die such as like couch game or even the sauna where if someone leaves first they die for exiting before being told or whatever one can imagine. Next is 'Alcatraz' Jail Break Version which is designed more for rebelling and escaping than sitting around and doing nothing. This map has a climb, pool, soccer, cafeteria, kitchen, a boat dock and even showers. Just because they're not labelled as such doesn't mean they aren't there. Many games could be invented here if the warden spends more than 3 seconds thinking about what the prisoners should do. Next and lastly for now is 'Prospekt' which is a remake from the original which also had a similar layout but with less guard areas making them more vulnerable to being killed by the prisoners. This map is heavily based around rebelling and escaping but offers a pool, cafeteria and soccer field to keep those not rebelling in check. There are other maps people do the same things each round instead of mixing it up each time and taking a chance to go places and do new things. Wardens should be more innovative and not do the same things the last warden did.

Additionally some might say the rules are either too strict or not strict enough, well at least clear enough as some still try to find loop holes and break the rules because they can. Having guards break the rules such as gun planting, baiting, not being with in visual range of the prisoners makes it not as fun to rebel or just to mess around and have fun. Having prisoners easily rebel due to guards that break the rules makes it less fun for both sides as it becomes less of a challenge for the prisoners to rebel and for the guards that follow the rules they tend to suffer in the face of their teammates breaking the rules. It is up to the admins and players to make sure the guards are not breaking the rules just as the prisoners should not be breaking the rules.

Don't care that its long.

Been playing since it was set up in 08, seen it change, seen the player base change.
 
I am going to be that guy who doesn't agree with anything. First of all, why is all of this attacking the CTs? Let me go through this one by one.

- Reminder to the CT's not to be strict and use games to eliminate the T's. (Yours truly)
Personally, I find this the most interesting. Reminder to CTs not to be strict. Doesn't this work both ways? If the Ts would actually listen to the orders, and not spend 30 seconds jumping around in circles instead of going to the destination, why should I make everyone else wait while one person screws around?

- Somehow further encourage CT's to utilize games on a map and to not MAKE the T's play games that the majority of them don't want to play. (iGamer)
Nobody is "forcing" you to play these games. Jail was originally, from the point of the T, to rebel and kill the guards. By playing these cell block games, I find it hard to rebel so why not rebel in the first place if you do not like the game?

- Remove bomb planting. (iamevilbear)
I love the bomb planting feature on some maps. The bomb planting really encourages teamwork amongst the Ts and for some reason, it seems that these maps are the only time people rebel. Why can't we rebel on other maps?

- ST's: a) Utilize them only on maps with ST markers b) Assign a CT to be with your ST(s) c) Dont assign any ST's at all! (iGamer)
Simple solution. Remove STs from jail. STs are just favortism, they go to the same people, and the people that get it rebel because it's the only way they can.

- Ban annoying cell block games? (iGamer)
See what I mentioned about the games people do not wish to play.

- Somehow further encourage CT's to pay attention and actually be GOOD guards by getting them to read Rdk's Jail Guard Tactical Handbook. (Kobra)

Just so you know, RDK's Jail Guard Tactical Handbook wouldn't be needed if people read the rules and understood the concept a little more. Yes, we have a jail rulebook!

- Limit freedays to ONLY be given out when the CT's are in control. (Rdk)
Only thing I agree with. Or remove them altogether.

- Somehow further encourage players on the server to keep calm and relax while playing on the server. (SkylineGTR)
Not sure what this has to do with "fixing jail" but on this, if people are getting too angry over jail, perhaps it is not their thing. I wouldn't like to have someone who is angry in the jail server and then freekills all of the Ts.

- Somehow encourage CT's to be creative when wardening and maybe play different games from the ones played recently. (Dr.Compton)
See second point.

Guess one thing I want to add is something directed at the Ts and not the CTs. How about we see the Ts start to rebel like jail was meant? Or at least start to pay more attention to your surroundings.

Just my two cents. You don't really have to agree.
 
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Been playing since it was set up in 08, seen it change, seen the player base change.

I'VE SEEN SOME THINGS :blink:
and me and rogue have same ideas. we totally must be brothers.

- Ban annoying cell block games? (iGamer)
See what I mentioned about the games people do not wish to play.
This one thing I fully disagree with, as most cell blocks are designed to make controlling the Ts relatively easy. There are some where you'll just have like 20 vents, and 20 guns in cells (exaggeration, but you get the point) which makes rebelling in cell block BEFORE CELLS OPEN relatively easy, but once cells are opened and you're being watched, its vastly more difficult to run off and rebel effectively.


Just so you know, RDK's Jail Guard Tactical Handbook wouldn't be needed if people read the rules and understood the concept a little more. Yes, we have a jail rulebook!
Ah, but I only included a few things that are covered by the jail rules, and that's to expand upon the rules and go more in depth to provide tactical knowledge. I specifically tried not to include anything that was already explicitly stated in the jail rules as I did not want a guide that just reiterated the jail rules, but rather an in depth focus on how to, and how not to, approach commonly botched situations in jail. So even if everyone had a great understanding of the rules, I would think my guide would still have its own little niche to fill.


Everything else I either agree with or I've already argued against in my guide.
 
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I love that list. Now just to find ways to implement what we're talking about. I mean, having us members following and enforcing this will help, but we need a way to get pubs in to this from the moment they get in. There was this hl2 roleplay for gmod that forced players to read and answer things to prove they will roleplay effectively. While this is a good idea, it's really strict and something less striLike more educational chat messages and god text to remind them of things would be cool too. Like:
- "CT's please remember to be with the T's at all times."
or other things that would just pop up across the top of the screen every once in a while. I know I've learned to ignore the little hints in the chat box, but there's no way to ignore a bright white god chat across the top for a few seconds. Long enough to read, but not long enough to actually interfere with the gameplay. Just an idea.
 
RCEeE.png


Alright time for Phantom to put his worthless 2 cents in.
I got bored and made a nice line graph for you guys to see how jail is.

So as you can see, there are some nice notes I added of certain things that were apart of jail when it was in it's "Golden Age".

Now in Jail, here are some key things I Believe should be changed about Jail

1. Please ban FR/LR. Yes its a great game and I actually love it. HOWEVER, The Ct's never pay attention and end up shooting the wrong person.

2.Add opinionated days. These days can be something like, Joke day. And T's have the option to sit out. These days are always fun ( From experience on other servers) and would be a great addition to increase the creativity of our wardens.

3. Alright this one is a work in progress idea. Please no judging me for this idea I would actually like criticism. But what if we took that reputation plugin and made it for popularity of CT's.. For instance you can only vote once an hour ( 3 for donators ) and based on how high their rep is for Warden then the higher chance they get for getting warden. We all know those wardens that are absolutely amazing and terrible. This will give us a bit of influence on if they are bad then they get warden less.

That's most of my ideas for right now but I agree that Jail is dead and needs to be revived.
 
2.Add opinionated days. These days can be something like, Joke day. And T's have the option to sit out. These days are always fun ( From experience on other servers) and would be a great addition to increase the creativity of our wardens.

3. Alright this one is a work in progress idea. Please no judging me for this idea I would actually like criticism. But what if we took that reputation plugin and made it for popularity of CT's.. For instance you can only vote once an hour ( 3 for donators ) and based on how high their rep is for Warden then the higher chance they get for getting warden. We all know those wardens that are absolutely amazing and terrible. This will give us a bit of influence on if they are bad then they get warden less.

That's most of my ideas for right now but I agree that Jail is dead and needs to be revived.

Could you elaborate on what a "joke" day is?
I don't think that rep is the way to go about it, as it doesn't give new players a chance to try out warden, thus cutting down on the possibilities of more new ideas. Good thought, not the best execution.
 
Could you elaborate on what a "joke" day is?


like for instance all T's I want you to line up here for an OPINIONATED DAY!! If you don't want to play line up on spray wall. now ( Pick a t at random) Kobra tell me a joke, If I don't laugh ( keep mic going for duration of joke) then you die.
 
Also, for the rep thing. Just because you have no rep yet doesnt mean anything. You just have a smaller chance and if the warden is as good as they should be to get good rep then one wardening should be able to increase their rep.
 
Also, for the rep thing. Just because you have no rep yet doesnt mean anything. You just have a smaller chance and if the warden is as good as they should be to get good rep then one wardening should be able to increase their rep.

One issue with it that I would like to bring up, is I do not think dedicated supporters should get more votes on this reputation system, as it actually plays a part in how the game plays out as opposed to normal rep that doesn't really change anything.
 
One issue with it that I would like to bring up, is I do not think dedicated supporters should get more votes on this reputation system, as it actually plays a part in how the game plays out as opposed to normal rep that doesn't really change anything.

Hmm, Agreed.
 
1. Take out the bomb sites.
2. New games.... Can map makers add in like a vehicle race?
Cart racing or car racing? etc.. New Games.. (We need another thread ONLY for new jail games)
3. Warden and his orders have to be leniant.
Sometimes, I see people shift walking out and getting shot right away for not being frozen. I really want to see this Rule taken out. It is not fun for people having to wait again. The Normal orders that was changed a few months back is to "Wlk out of your cells, face it and FREEZE. Can I ask leadership to change it?
4. Do not play games in cell block for too long.
Should we make up a rule for this? Like an automated plugin that says "Please evacuate all the T's out of cellblock as they do not like to be in one place."
5. Prevent freekilling
I am still thinking of a way to do something for people who get freekilled. Can they walk around and explore the map when they die? (invisible person) I have seen this on some surf maps. Or can eGO + level admins get to respawn freekilled T's through admin menu and point their crosshairs at where they want to be respawned? Like I said.. I am still thinking about some ideas about freekilling..
Until next time, I will be thinking about more ideas for jail.
- craz_yPANDA
 
@ Phantom373 sorry, I derped the quote button so no quotes.

2.Add opinionated days. These days can be something like, Joke day. And T's have the option to sit out. These days are always fun ( From experience on other servers) and would be a great addition to increase the creativity of our wardens.

3. Alright this one is a work in progress idea. Please no judging me for this idea I would actually like criticism. But what if we took that reputation plugin and made it for popularity of CT's.. For instance you can only vote once an hour ( 3 for donators ) and based on how high their rep is for Warden then the higher chance they get for getting warden. We all know those wardens that are absolutely amazing and terrible. This will give us a bit of influence on if they are bad then they get warden less.
2. We can work something like that out.
3. Uhmm..Not to sure about it BUT thats good thinking. I don't think it is fair for the CT's. However, we can use the rep idea for something else.. Lets start thinking about what we can do for it.
 
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Alright, I've been at school and haven't had a chance to read all of these reply's but, I just have. So far reading some of these reply's, I'm not to happy... this thread was intended for people to air out why they didn't like Jail and what they thought was wrong with it and suggest ways to fix these things.

I honestly don't give a damn if you disagree with some of the suggestions (which aren't even set in stone yet so there's no reason to disagree) but to the people looking to have a debate about irrelevant things, please, mention why you don't play Jail often any more and suggest things to repair them.

There's many people saying things like "CT's should be more aware and clued in to the rules and such in order to be better guards" but this isn't at all what I want out of this thread. Suggest ways that could improve the Jail guards, because it's not just going to happen out of the blue... and not everyone is on the forums to read these posts, there are also CT's that don't know these forums exist meaning they don't have access to Rdk's guard handbook). As for your post Rogue, you've given many examples to what people dislike in the server and some maybe possible solutions but can you give some ways to ACTUALLY make CT's more creative when wardening?

There are many posts in here that I could quote and reply to and disagree with but what's the point of that? Can you guys just give your own ideas to improve the Jail server which is clearly in trouble. And not worry about others ideas?

Thanks, XavierB.
 
Reasons i'm not on as much as i once was:
Lack of refreshing maps
Rage-quitting due to ridiculous cts who kill you for ridiculous reasons.
Lack of time--(i want to play more but i only get 1 or 2 hours a day of free time, and only on certain days of the week even. M,W, and Fri i get up at six and get home at 8, with a few hours break in the middle. Tuesday and Thursday I wake up at 7 and home at 8 with no break.)
 
I try to play jail as often as I can, with bad CT'S freekilling me for stupid reasons or not paying attention I always end up raging.
 
Reasons i'm not on as much as i once was:
Lack of refreshing maps
Rage-quitting due to ridiculous cts who kill you for ridiculous reasons.
Lack of time--(i want to play more but i only get 1 or 2 hours a day of free time, and only on certain days of the week even. M,W, and Fri i get up at six and get home at 8, with a few hours break in the middle. Tuesday and Thursday I wake up at 7 and home at 8 with no break.)

Can you think of anything that could improve those first things mentioned?

I try to play jail as often as I can, with bad CT'S freekilling me for stupid reasons or not paying attention I always end up raging.

Apart from the ones already stated, can you also think of anything that could improve those things?



Looking for solutions here people!
 

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