As a pyro-mainer, I absolutley love this update. Since I don't play Demo or Soldier much, the only way it effects me is for the better. For example, as a pyro, I die alot more by the hands of Soldiers and Demomen than any other class. But now, with the update, It forces them to either tactfully use their ammo, or find ammo boxes(which is another good thing, most, if not all, of the ammo boxes on Gravelpit[my favorite eGO server] are places where I can easily ambush them) So this time, I feel that valve has done a good job, and they get my thumbs up, for sure.
Yet another neutering TF2 update
- Thread starter Spanktacular
- Start date
Lowering the damage output is really the way to solve the problem they're looking to solve. If a Pyro approaches a Soldier from the front he will die absolutely every time. Even if the Soldier dies too, the Pyro will die. If they really wanted to fix this and make it a fair fight they'd decrease damage AND knockback force, because if a Soldier notices you and throws a rocket to his feet, you'll be knocked in the air, helpless, where he can continuously pelt you with more rockets till you die.
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- Jul 19, 2006
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I would take out Pyro and Heavy's ammo..and Medic..not rocket or demo..that's just plain wrong...
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- Dec 8, 2006
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- 6,861
[quote1204297201=Blazing Heat]
I would take out Pyro and Heavy's ammo..and Medic..not rocket or demo..that's just plain wrong...
[/quote1204297201]
They have almost no ammo to start with considering how fast they go through it.
I would take out Pyro and Heavy's ammo..and Medic..not rocket or demo..that's just plain wrong...
[/quote1204297201]
They have almost no ammo to start with considering how fast they go through it.
My other thought is from an engineer's POV on CTF maps, is that he now has a bit of an edge, especially on 2fort. If he uses a lot of ammo on getting to the intel only to find he doesn't have any left to take out the entry hiding in there, he may not last long.
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we should sihn a pitition on the steam forums!
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- Feb 28, 2008
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- 126
I always found soldier to be short on ammo, now its closer to starving. On 2fort its barely enough to make it across the bridge, not to mention this will mean you'll almost have to guarantee having a sizable amount of your offense survive to make it to their flagroom in order to have a successful chance of getting out.
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- Feb 28, 2008
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having 20 shots to go from one spawn to cap and recover is just pointless. Its gonna take 2 rockets to kill almost anyone, 3-4 for hw guys 2-3 for soldiers and 4 for sentries.
I guarantee I can go through 16 pipes before a heavy or pyro comes anywhere close to empty. I dont like this change. I can't stand people that play demo with stickies for offense. They were meant for more defensive purposes and pipe for offense. but now with 16 pipes and 24 stickie, i am forced to leave the cap undefended and stickie, detonate, stickie, detonate to attack....
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2007
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- 121
I personally think this isnt a problem...because...guess what..specially for soldiers..they have two more weapons...maybe not as long ranged or powerful as your rockets but too many times ive noticed soliders that never switch weapons at all....next time your in close quarters with somone...shotgun them instead of rocket to your feet...save some ammo...and given shotgun isnt explosive...more ammo will drop at your feet...as for demo...they just gotta make thier shots count instead of sitting at 2fort enemy spawn and spamming nades and stickies
[quote1204307233=RaiN]
I guarantee I can go through 16 pipes before a heavy or pyro comes anywhere close to empty. I dont like this change. I can't stand people that play demo with stickies for offense. They were meant for more defensive purposes and pipe for offense. but now with 16 pipes and 24 stickie, i am forced to leave the cap undefended and stickie, detonate, stickie, detonate to attack....
[/quote1204307233]
I can't stand demos that don't use stickies for offense, because they're really gimping themselves. Whatever stickies were "intended" for, anyone can plainly see that they're the best weapon for almost any job. The only time I use the grenade launcher is in close quarter combat, thin hallways, or getting at enemies who are over a ridge above me, and even then I switch immediately to the sticky gun when I've fired all 4 grenades to pick off whoever might have survived them.
The only thing that really frustrates me about demomen is the ones that camp in one spot and wait for someone to walk over their stickies. These players wont be affected by this nerf, because they'll no doubt be nearby to ammo supplies already. Players like myself who go offensive with our demos, on the other hand, are really going to be in trouble now, for all the reasons that ChrisBliss18 mentioned. Soldiers will definitely feel this nerf as well, since they're also typically on the offensive.
As for the argument that good players wont need extra ammo because every one of their bombs will hit, well, try fighting a really good scout as a demoman. You can launch stickies where you predict he's going to go, but a good scout will typically have enough time to dodge it before you're able to detonate it. The best way to kill him is to simply inundate his "run space" with stickies, so that he can't avoid them, consequently using up lots of your ammo. Soldiers and heavies can often take a lot of stickies to kill, as well, because they're very tough and any competent player will be constantly moving around, so a direct hit below their feet for full damage is less likely. I'll confess that heavies can be easily hit with the 'nade launcher, though, so they aren't so huge a deal.
Finally, I don't see this nerf being very effective against the defensive spam on Dustbowl, since most demomen and soldiers will be standing next to dispensers anyhow.
I guarantee I can go through 16 pipes before a heavy or pyro comes anywhere close to empty. I dont like this change. I can't stand people that play demo with stickies for offense. They were meant for more defensive purposes and pipe for offense. but now with 16 pipes and 24 stickie, i am forced to leave the cap undefended and stickie, detonate, stickie, detonate to attack....
[/quote1204307233]
I can't stand demos that don't use stickies for offense, because they're really gimping themselves. Whatever stickies were "intended" for, anyone can plainly see that they're the best weapon for almost any job. The only time I use the grenade launcher is in close quarter combat, thin hallways, or getting at enemies who are over a ridge above me, and even then I switch immediately to the sticky gun when I've fired all 4 grenades to pick off whoever might have survived them.
The only thing that really frustrates me about demomen is the ones that camp in one spot and wait for someone to walk over their stickies. These players wont be affected by this nerf, because they'll no doubt be nearby to ammo supplies already. Players like myself who go offensive with our demos, on the other hand, are really going to be in trouble now, for all the reasons that ChrisBliss18 mentioned. Soldiers will definitely feel this nerf as well, since they're also typically on the offensive.
As for the argument that good players wont need extra ammo because every one of their bombs will hit, well, try fighting a really good scout as a demoman. You can launch stickies where you predict he's going to go, but a good scout will typically have enough time to dodge it before you're able to detonate it. The best way to kill him is to simply inundate his "run space" with stickies, so that he can't avoid them, consequently using up lots of your ammo. Soldiers and heavies can often take a lot of stickies to kill, as well, because they're very tough and any competent player will be constantly moving around, so a direct hit below their feet for full damage is less likely. I'll confess that heavies can be easily hit with the 'nade launcher, though, so they aren't so huge a deal.
Finally, I don't see this nerf being very effective against the defensive spam on Dustbowl, since most demomen and soldiers will be standing next to dispensers anyhow.
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- Feb 18, 2008
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- 616
Interesting thought that just occurred to me. Some of you may not know that you can restock at enemy dispensers. Rather than blowing up every enemy dispenser you see, restock your offensive team first, and then decide whether or not to destroy it.
[quote1204315377=The IRS]
They still need to give the spy more invisible time, or let him be able to get more invisibility from picking up ammo
[/quote1204315377]
Are you kidding? They need to change the way spies can act while invisible. They should have far less time unless they are standing still. JMHO.
6.
They still need to give the spy more invisible time, or let him be able to get more invisibility from picking up ammo
[/quote1204315377]
Are you kidding? They need to change the way spies can act while invisible. They should have far less time unless they are standing still. JMHO.
6.
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- Apr 14, 2008
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- 1,860
DeeZ made a great point (I was skimming, so forgive me if others made it to some degree as well), that I'd like to underscore.
This will mean people are more serious about protecting their engineer's installations. I know there are some engineer haters out there, but when we're trying to get set up and we keep getting destroyed, it's pretty awful, and often leaves the team without needed support. This update is going to make us more dependent on teamwork, which is not a bad thing.
I play all the classes depending on need, though I'm most often engineer or pyro, and I really don't like loosing ammo for my runs as demoman or soldier, but I can see what Valve might have been thinking on this one.
This will mean people are more serious about protecting their engineer's installations. I know there are some engineer haters out there, but when we're trying to get set up and we keep getting destroyed, it's pretty awful, and often leaves the team without needed support. This update is going to make us more dependent on teamwork, which is not a bad thing.
I play all the classes depending on need, though I'm most often engineer or pyro, and I really don't like loosing ammo for my runs as demoman or soldier, but I can see what Valve might have been thinking on this one.
(- Joined
- Feb 7, 2008
- Messages
- 74
[quote1204331234=RaiN]
I guarantee I can go through 16 pipes before a heavy or pyro comes anywhere close to empty. I dont like this change. I can't stand people that play demo with stickies for offense. They were meant for more defensive purposes and pipe for offense. but now with 16 pipes and 24 stickie, i am forced to leave the cap undefended and stickie, detonate, stickie, detonate to attack....
[/quote1204331234]
All good demos rely on stickies on offense. Grenades are usually used as a last line of defense against people charging at you or spamming around corners,etc.
Also the nerf doesn't really affect the noob spammer demos, soldiers that it's supposed to nerf. Because they are the ones that camp near, ammos, dispensers and spam at the same spot all day and never run out of ammo. The good soldiers and demos who lead the attacks will now have to worry about their ammo after killing 2-3 people in a row.
I guarantee I can go through 16 pipes before a heavy or pyro comes anywhere close to empty. I dont like this change. I can't stand people that play demo with stickies for offense. They were meant for more defensive purposes and pipe for offense. but now with 16 pipes and 24 stickie, i am forced to leave the cap undefended and stickie, detonate, stickie, detonate to attack....
[/quote1204331234]
All good demos rely on stickies on offense. Grenades are usually used as a last line of defense against people charging at you or spamming around corners,etc.
Also the nerf doesn't really affect the noob spammer demos, soldiers that it's supposed to nerf. Because they are the ones that camp near, ammos, dispensers and spam at the same spot all day and never run out of ammo. The good soldiers and demos who lead the attacks will now have to worry about their ammo after killing 2-3 people in a row.
I'm fine with the lower ammo as a soldier. Any soldier worth his salt can get a few kills with 4 full reloads + shotty. You just have to remember to pick up a few bags every now and then.
But if people start getting greedy and taking all the ammo drops...I'll probably be in trouble...
But if people start getting greedy and taking all the ammo drops...I'll probably be in trouble...
