Dark clouds on the horizon......(everyone read this)

First of all, I do believe the best thing Valve can do is put all the servers on one list, and then you can click a little box telling saying that it will filter out certain servers, but the only problem with that is there are constantly more and more mods coming out for tf2, so either valve would have to keep up with the constant output of new mods, or make the little box descriptions really generic such as "custom maps" "<24" ">24" etc. I do believe there needs to be a set standard for what is vanilla and what is custom. Not only all of this but, in a lot of the posts they talk about new people that buy the game and how they want the default experience, and how valve wants that as well, because people get mad at the custom options. But think of it this way... As more and more new customers buy this game, there is always going to be the vets of TF2 or w/e the game they play, the server admins in this group have found what people like, they have asked what they want in a server, and have often provided. Now dont you think that the new comers will for the most part like some of these mods? Now granted that not every new comer is alike, but also granted that not every server admin or all his people that come to the server are alike either, giving a more colorful selection of servers. To put it simply i dont see too much of a problem, If custom servers are good, then people will come to them, if custom servers are bad, they often are empty. People should realize that if a server is full, it may have some of the same mods they like, and they should try it out, and if its empty, then most likely it wont have the kind of mods they would like. Most human beings have similar ideas in what they like, with some minor changes here and there. Its like icecream, there are teh main flavors, (mods) that people like, like vanilla, chocolate, etc. then you get the new flavors that come out, some actually are good and stay around for a while, or forever (like rocky road, panda paws, etc) then you get the ones taht are bad and people dont like (i dont know of any because im not very adventurous in my icecream eating).
 
The real question is why did valve have to go and change the server layout to custom and internet.
Couldn't they have just kept the internet tab, and added a column to list modifications? (Instead of adding a custom tab to do the same thing.)
I personally believe that this is a complete mistake on Valve's part, and I truly hope that this is just a passing fancy and the tabs will go back to normal eventually.

More to the point, I can't believe all the people on the steam forums who believe that having 32 players makes your server somehow less fun, and should be placed on custom. (Also another mistake on Valve's part as well.)

How do people get "tricked" into joining a custom server when the only server modification is more slots?

The people that really tick me off are the people who think that servers should be banned (You know, kill off Valve's server base.) because the admins believe that Valve has made a colossal mistake, and simply try to get their servers filled.

*sigh*

Sometimes I wish people on the steam forums were just a tiny bit less ignorant, because then maybe they would use some common sense.

Also, I'd like to thank Monkeybits, Chrissbliss, and Flippy for being our messengers, and spreading our collective thoughts. You guys do the hardest part for us. Thank you.
 
I'm just glad I finally figured out why we're having trouble filling servers.... i'm pretty slow sometimes
 
I'm gonna post in the steam thread sooner or later, assuming my account ever gets activated. But while I'm thinking about it, I'll put down my words here.

[blockquote]All of the servers I currently have listed as favorites have suffered population drops due to this change. Which I can only assume means they're all on the 'custom' tab now. Which means I would never have found my way to these servers if this system had had been in place from the beginning. I hate, loath even, custom gameplay. I like my 20 second spawn time and normal gravity. Had this system been in place when the game was released, I would have missed out on the fine gaming experiences and friends I have been blessed with. Because I would never have looked in the Custom tab.[/blockquote]
 
Coming from a hardcore custom fan(with the exception of speed and gravity, leave those alone), I am unusually ticked off about this new "patch". First off, all of our servers are, in fact, 32 player servers. I actually feel segregated from the other servers because of what? Wanting 8 more people to enjoy the cleanliness of eGO? That is so outrageous that I can't even put it into words. Even on the off chance I played a non-eGO server, it was custom. Now, those servers are long gone, and I can't say how sorry I feel for the owners of those servers, spending their earnings on fun for other people, however being rejected, because they are in a different tab. I must say, that this is probably my least favorite update I've seen with any game, ever. Seriously, I mean come on! It's not that hard to double click on a server, wait for it to load, say "Oh, I don't like [Insert Custom Modification here], and leave." This is a battle against laziness, that I feel, we need to win.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I'm really proud of you guys (mostly) for the way (most of) you're handling the situation. THIS is what makes eGO such a great clan. Keep it up, guys.
 
If they want to hate us let them hate us. It makes them look bad and weak as gamers as a whole. Its as simple as this. The Custom servers won't be banned and the IP adresses of people who play on them won't be either. They will be told that if they don't like it they don't have to play there. They can make their own servers and play.
 
We're not trying to create an "us/them" mentality out of this, remember. We want to have our issues redressed without alienating the public we need to use our servers. This is something that should be handled as "eGO speaking to Valve", not "Customz/Vanilla Gamers war". Lets bear that in mind, guys.
 
I really do enjoy Valve, and the support they provide, and the games they make, but this is one of the, if not the, worst decision they could make. I think it would be smart to get a larger majority of the people happy, not just the 50% that want the custom servers to be moved to a tab. Now im not an expert on anything, but it seems kinda simple to make a little filter to filter out servers with certain mods.
 
[quote1204867768=Moose]
We're not trying to create an "us/them" mentality out of this, remember. We want to have our issues redressed without alienating the public we need to use our servers. This is something that should be handled as "eGO speaking to Valve", not "Customz/Vanilla Gamers war". Lets bear that in mind, guys.
[/quote1204867768]
That's a very important point, Moose. We want to open a dialogue with Valve, and not alienate them. They apparently have some way they want non-Vanilla servers to be handled, and if we can find a way to work with Valve on that, so much the better.
 
[quote1204868050=Flippy Squirrel]
[quote1204867768=Moose]
We're not trying to create an "us/them" mentality out of this, remember. We want to have our issues redressed without alienating the public we need to use our servers. This is something that should be handled as "eGO speaking to Valve", not "Customz/Vanilla Gamers war". Lets bear that in mind, guys.
[/quote1204867768]
That's a very important point, Moose. We want to open a dialogue with Valve, and not alienate them. They apparently have some way they want non-Vanilla servers to be handled, and if we can find a way to work with Valve on that, so much the better.
[/quote1204868050]

Can you imagine the ramifications for our clan if we were the one group to work with Valve toward a solution as opposed to clamoring and whining at them?? This could be a huge thing for us, guys! Let's keep it up!
 
I think the most important thing, no matter where you're posting or talking, is to stay positive. We need to understand why Valve made the choices they do and how we can work with them to make things better. I'm going on faith that Valve doesn't want to alienate the community, and am pressing just that point gently in the Steam Forums. It's an uphill battle, but one worth fighting.

I recall the dynamic pricing fiasco in CS:S, and how that went down in flames. Hopefully, we can work with Valve to find a better solution, but we must also be open to the idea that we're going to have to live with things the way they are.

Incidentally, for those of you who've not seen it, this was in the Steam Support area for a while before these changes were implemented. I don't know that they were communicated as effectively as they could have been, but .. they did say something, at least.

http://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7958-WSCV-6557

UPDATE: One last edit before I go to bed. It's not a bad idea to check out the entire TF2 forum, as there are a few more threads the refer to the update. Just bear in mind that (a) the eGO point of view is not as popular in the official forums as it could be, (b) Drunken has some pretty specific guidelines about not representing yourself as eGO, and (c) being a disrespectful idiot is a good way to destroy any goodwill we're trying to build.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80

REALLY ACTUAL LAST UPDATE: Go to the thread below, post constructive comments or additions, and bask in the knowledge that you're helping out.

http://www.edgegamers.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?46400
 
I'm confident that eGO will be the front runner for championing the compromises that will be made in the future.
 
Who is to say what is the best and what is the norm?

What if you went to Google.com looking for Chocolate Chip Cookie Recipes and every search result that came back had the exact same ingredients in the exact same amounts, cooked for the exact same amount of time. How would you know of any other cookie? How would you know that there were any other tastes, shapes, sizes, smells and variations of the same delicious snack? Who is to say that this particular chocolate chip cookie is the only kind of chocolate chip cookie? And lets go a step further to say that any other recipe that even has the slightest difference in ingredients was then segregated to a seperate tab at the top of the page? Now who uses google (or any other search engine for that matter) and makes sure they're in the right section or tab before they search for what they "want". The concept of Google implies that you're going to get every result available for what you searched for not just what Google wants you to see... just as an internet server browser would imply that any server connected to the internet would be listed?

Or am I just crazy?
 
[quote1204872327=Moose]
We're not trying to create an "us/them" mentality out of this, remember. We want to have our issues redressed without alienating the public we need to use our servers. This is something that should be handled as "eGO speaking to Valve", not "Customz/Vanilla Gamers war". Lets bear that in mind, guys.
[/quote1204872327]

I'm not saying thats what we're trying to create but thats what it eventually will come down to. They will think we only play there because we're all members which isn't true. I play on a ton of servers to have fun. They will think we're only "Custom Players". Its like that with any game that has guilds/clans. I know from my experiences in World of Warcraft. I have seen people try to get entire guilds removed from the game because they aren't in them. In our case it would be taking our servers away.
 
I think the whole 'Vanilla' arguement is flawed. When I loaded the game up as a new player, the first thing I looked for was a map that was near capacity.

My first interest was to find a map that had a load of players.

It was then a case of finding the experience that made maximised my enjoyment. Which is why I settled here. Admittedly as a new player, I had no idea that I was playing on a map that had been customised. But even if I had it wouldn't have mattered.

Personally I feel the EGO servers are the definative experience. We have friendly, fair admins who make sure that our servers are fun to play on, with no bullying and equal opportunities for everyone.

As soon as I had found something I like, I put it in my favorites. With the current set of rules governing the seperation of 'Vanilla' from everything else, I wouldn't have found the EGO servers and I probably wouldn't have stuck with TF2 for more than a few hours.

Places like this are the lifeblood of TF2. Providing friendly servers, with plently of players and great clan members is a testiment to Valves game, not to the detriment of it. EGO is a shining example of what the TF2 experience should be and deserves its place in the "Internet" tab.
 
Most servers are technically custom. The second you add a mod like admin to the server, its custom. Hopefully we get moved back to the internet tab, because I am sure servers with admin are there.
 
I added a post last night to the thread hitting on the points of server experience is what the admins should focus on and the thought of using a filter to help weed out mods rather than a tab. Also with last nights update they removed alltalk from the list of "custom" servers so those people can now re-join the internet tab. I still am dumbfounded as to how the number of players earns you a custom listing since it does nothing in the eyes of public players to scroll down and go oh that server has 32 players max and I want 24 so I will just scroll up a little... whatever Valve is on I want some because this is beyond bizarre...
 
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