Building PC, Need Assistance
- Thread starter Milwaukee
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 678
These are the specs for your case
# Dimension:250mm(W)x488mm(H)x540mm(D)=9.8"x19.2"x21.3"mm
# Max. Motherboard size:12"x10"
# 4 open 5.25" drive bays
# 2 open 3.5" drive bays
# 5 hidden 3.5" drive bays
# A total of 11 drive bays
# Built-in 2 front USB 2.0+Audio Output
# An 80mm Blue LED fan is included with space for optional front and rear 120mm fans
# This case comes with a POWER LAB 450watts power supply
# Toolless Thumb Screws
looks like it comes with one fan (80mm), and you should buy two 120mm for the other slots
# Dimension:250mm(W)x488mm(H)x540mm(D)=9.8"x19.2"x21.3"mm
# Max. Motherboard size:12"x10"
# 4 open 5.25" drive bays
# 2 open 3.5" drive bays
# 5 hidden 3.5" drive bays
# A total of 11 drive bays
# Built-in 2 front USB 2.0+Audio Output
# An 80mm Blue LED fan is included with space for optional front and rear 120mm fans
# This case comes with a POWER LAB 450watts power supply
# Toolless Thumb Screws
looks like it comes with one fan (80mm), and you should buy two 120mm for the other slots
I know this post is very long, but I know what I'm talking about, and some of this might be useful to you.
The first things I can see wrong with your build are:
1. You aren't including a heat sink. It's a HORRIBLE idea to use a high-end processor in a gaming computer with the stock heat sink.
2. As much as I REALLY hate to say it, AMD has been beaten severely by Intel as far as high end processors go. The Phenom has the right idea, as far as true quad core archetechture, but the Q6600 (for a tiny price increase, about $10-20 depending on site) vastly outperforms it. The only downside to using Intel at this point for high-end processors is that the first party motherboards aren't compatible with nVidia SLI, though they have Crossfire. Though, I just built a computer for a friend of mine (ArclighT, in this clan) and he runs TF2 at 200+ FPS on full settings with a Q6600 and a single 8800 GTX.
EDIT:
After noting the re-fixed build below, I've still got some things.
1. No heat sink, again.
I suggest, for the heatsink:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134
and for the thermal compound:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186020
No, I don't work for Arctic Cooling, but if you'll ask anyone I've recommended it to, they're amazing. And far cheaper than Zalman, Thermaltake, and the other "big name" companies, while outperforming them in most cases by 10°C or more. Their thermal compound works better than Arctic Silver 5, the "big name" for thermal compound, by by about 2-5°C
2. For the price, go for the Q6600 if you can get one without too much more money (on some sites, and at some times, they're chaper than the Core 2 Duos).
3. Corsair isn't "the" best anymore, but still good. Check benchmarks versus OCZ's memory for the same price. Sometimes OCZ is ahead, sometimes Corsair is, sometimes other companies (Mushkin comes to mind) is ahead. All depends on price range. I think Tom's Hardware has a chart somewhere, but I can't do ALL The work for you. =P
4. BFG Tech makes more reliable cards than XFX or EVGA, if the card you want (not sure about the plain old GT) is available from BFG Tech, I'd get it, even if it costs an extra $10-20. XFX and EVGA both have a history of dying on you, and BFG Tech provides a very nice warranty with their products in most cases. XFX cards ARE pretty, though, and I've currently got one in my wife's computer that's been running fine for a year. Mostly luck, I think.
5. ...In the second build, you have a beige DVD writer selected. Also, be sure to have an IDE-based optical drive available during your build, as most operating systems won't install on most SATA-based optical drives. You can unplug the IDE drive after the OS and driver install.
6. That case. Hm. I get the feeling you're going for cheap, but if you somehow had the money,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233003
Yes, the case makes a big difference, it has a very nice layout for cooling.. the only problem is that an 8800 GTX is a VERY tight fit, length wise, but still cools just fine and can be done. Another reason to buy a different brand of video card--XFX cards are longer and have annoying black rails on the side that make them hard to install on toolless cases. The reasons for a good case will be a little more obvious after reading the next bit.
=====
Now, about those fans.
Fans may not seem important, but trust me, they're VERY important. I'ma give you some tips about how to pick out some good ones.
Most people just look at CFM, or cubic feet per minute, when choosing a fan. This is an important thing to look at, as higher CFM does mean more air moved, and a cooler running computer. However, when choosing fans, be sure to put thought into your case pressure.
Positive pressure means a little more heat, but very little dust. Negative pressure means a little less heat, but lots more dust. In the long run, since most people don't dust their cases, heat sinks, and fan filters out very often, positive pressure's the best choice. This is also why it's a good reason to leave your case sides ON and keep everything tightly closed.
To achieve positive pressure, you want to put a very strong front fan on your computer, and if your case allows, a side fan blowing inward. 120mm fans are best for this, as they can achieve good pressure without much noise or power consumption, and last much longer than 80mm fans. Your exhaust fans should go in the back of the case and the top (if applicable), and should have only slightly less pressure, combined, than the intake. You can see how much air they'll be moving by checking the CFM rating of the fans, available on most reputable computer part sites. Different models of the same fan can have drastically different CFM.
For exhaust fans, "cage" type fans work better than square fans, as more air can reach them and get pulled out of your case, rather than building up pockets of heat. For some low noise, low pressure exhaust fans (good for when you want two fans without creating a huge vaccuum) I use:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186018
Also, when buying fans, be sure to check the dBA rating. This is the amount of sound created by the fan. 20 dBA is a little louder than a whisper. 40 dBA is about as loud as an air conditioner. 60 dBA is about the level of a TV or conversation. 90 is as loud as a truck engine. Most people wear headphones or have loud speakers while gaming, and some people (like me) like sleeping with white noise in the background, but you may want to take into account how much sound the fans make regardless. While you can't just add up the dBA ratings of the fans to see how loud they are, I can tell you if you want the computer reasonably quiet, the added dBA shouldn't go above 100, and no individual fan should be over 40. This is very hard to do with 80mm fans, but very few good cases for under $100 have the appropriate number of 120mm fans.
The first things I can see wrong with your build are:
1. You aren't including a heat sink. It's a HORRIBLE idea to use a high-end processor in a gaming computer with the stock heat sink.
2. As much as I REALLY hate to say it, AMD has been beaten severely by Intel as far as high end processors go. The Phenom has the right idea, as far as true quad core archetechture, but the Q6600 (for a tiny price increase, about $10-20 depending on site) vastly outperforms it. The only downside to using Intel at this point for high-end processors is that the first party motherboards aren't compatible with nVidia SLI, though they have Crossfire. Though, I just built a computer for a friend of mine (ArclighT, in this clan) and he runs TF2 at 200+ FPS on full settings with a Q6600 and a single 8800 GTX.
EDIT:
After noting the re-fixed build below, I've still got some things.
1. No heat sink, again.
I suggest, for the heatsink:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134
and for the thermal compound:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186020
No, I don't work for Arctic Cooling, but if you'll ask anyone I've recommended it to, they're amazing. And far cheaper than Zalman, Thermaltake, and the other "big name" companies, while outperforming them in most cases by 10°C or more. Their thermal compound works better than Arctic Silver 5, the "big name" for thermal compound, by by about 2-5°C
2. For the price, go for the Q6600 if you can get one without too much more money (on some sites, and at some times, they're chaper than the Core 2 Duos).
3. Corsair isn't "the" best anymore, but still good. Check benchmarks versus OCZ's memory for the same price. Sometimes OCZ is ahead, sometimes Corsair is, sometimes other companies (Mushkin comes to mind) is ahead. All depends on price range. I think Tom's Hardware has a chart somewhere, but I can't do ALL The work for you. =P
4. BFG Tech makes more reliable cards than XFX or EVGA, if the card you want (not sure about the plain old GT) is available from BFG Tech, I'd get it, even if it costs an extra $10-20. XFX and EVGA both have a history of dying on you, and BFG Tech provides a very nice warranty with their products in most cases. XFX cards ARE pretty, though, and I've currently got one in my wife's computer that's been running fine for a year. Mostly luck, I think.
5. ...In the second build, you have a beige DVD writer selected. Also, be sure to have an IDE-based optical drive available during your build, as most operating systems won't install on most SATA-based optical drives. You can unplug the IDE drive after the OS and driver install.
6. That case. Hm. I get the feeling you're going for cheap, but if you somehow had the money,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233003
Yes, the case makes a big difference, it has a very nice layout for cooling.. the only problem is that an 8800 GTX is a VERY tight fit, length wise, but still cools just fine and can be done. Another reason to buy a different brand of video card--XFX cards are longer and have annoying black rails on the side that make them hard to install on toolless cases. The reasons for a good case will be a little more obvious after reading the next bit.
=====
Now, about those fans.
Fans may not seem important, but trust me, they're VERY important. I'ma give you some tips about how to pick out some good ones.
Most people just look at CFM, or cubic feet per minute, when choosing a fan. This is an important thing to look at, as higher CFM does mean more air moved, and a cooler running computer. However, when choosing fans, be sure to put thought into your case pressure.
Positive pressure means a little more heat, but very little dust. Negative pressure means a little less heat, but lots more dust. In the long run, since most people don't dust their cases, heat sinks, and fan filters out very often, positive pressure's the best choice. This is also why it's a good reason to leave your case sides ON and keep everything tightly closed.
To achieve positive pressure, you want to put a very strong front fan on your computer, and if your case allows, a side fan blowing inward. 120mm fans are best for this, as they can achieve good pressure without much noise or power consumption, and last much longer than 80mm fans. Your exhaust fans should go in the back of the case and the top (if applicable), and should have only slightly less pressure, combined, than the intake. You can see how much air they'll be moving by checking the CFM rating of the fans, available on most reputable computer part sites. Different models of the same fan can have drastically different CFM.
For exhaust fans, "cage" type fans work better than square fans, as more air can reach them and get pulled out of your case, rather than building up pockets of heat. For some low noise, low pressure exhaust fans (good for when you want two fans without creating a huge vaccuum) I use:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186018
Also, when buying fans, be sure to check the dBA rating. This is the amount of sound created by the fan. 20 dBA is a little louder than a whisper. 40 dBA is about as loud as an air conditioner. 60 dBA is about the level of a TV or conversation. 90 is as loud as a truck engine. Most people wear headphones or have loud speakers while gaming, and some people (like me) like sleeping with white noise in the background, but you may want to take into account how much sound the fans make regardless. While you can't just add up the dBA ratings of the fans to see how loud they are, I can tell you if you want the computer reasonably quiet, the added dBA shouldn't go above 100, and no individual fan should be over 40. This is very hard to do with 80mm fans, but very few good cases for under $100 have the appropriate number of 120mm fans.
Oh what the heck! You went dual core and 65nm to boot!! Oh c'mon!! If you are going to upgrade I suggest the E8400 on a new 750i board.
I build systems for people. My latest was an E8400 with an 8800gtx. Sweet system, but for an Under -$1000-build I still think the E8400 is a good bet. The Q6600 is just as good. I have that little sucker OC'ed to 3ghz on my Asus P5N-E SLI.
I love the case though.
The memory I suggest Crucial Ballistix. People really love those. I run corsair XMS2 myself.
I agree with Ephyu, get an after market Heat sink and better thermal paste (AS5 FTW!!)
Dude a GT graphics card? Go with the new 512mb 88800 GTS. Those have similar core to the 9800 GX2.
But just my suggestions. This is YOUR build. Once its done you will be frustrated and proud of it at the same time. Its a testament to your perseverance, resourcefulness, knowledge and wisdom. Kinda like building your own light saber for computer users. LOL!! !lol
Have Fun and don't give up!!
I build systems for people. My latest was an E8400 with an 8800gtx. Sweet system, but for an Under -$1000-build I still think the E8400 is a good bet. The Q6600 is just as good. I have that little sucker OC'ed to 3ghz on my Asus P5N-E SLI.
I love the case though.
The memory I suggest Crucial Ballistix. People really love those. I run corsair XMS2 myself.
I agree with Ephyu, get an after market Heat sink and better thermal paste (AS5 FTW!!)
Dude a GT graphics card? Go with the new 512mb 88800 GTS. Those have similar core to the 9800 GX2.
But just my suggestions. This is YOUR build. Once its done you will be frustrated and proud of it at the same time. Its a testament to your perseverance, resourcefulness, knowledge and wisdom. Kinda like building your own light saber for computer users. LOL!! !lol
Have Fun and don't give up!!
Ok, I've been talking to people all day. From people with Degrees in Computer Engineering, to Average Joe and his opinions.
Here's what I've settled on.
Taking all info given to me today, with my price range etc, this seems to be my best option.
I will just migrate my IDE DVD W/RW from this pc to install drivers etc, and then back.
This case comes with 3 120mm fans already, if I need more, then they are easy enough to get. The Stock Fans are 45 CFM / 21 dBA, from what I've read on multiple site about the specs.
And Best of all...
My Income Tax refund is $1103 CAD, and this build comes in just over.. which is fine.. 20$ isn't anything to worry about.
One more thing.. Can you say "What The Hell"?
This is directly from my account with Canadian Revenue Agency
How can it say my return was mailed to me on the 26th of March, when its only the 20th today??
Here's what I've settled on.
- Case - Price: $67.50 CAD - Coolermaster CM 690 Mid Tower Black ATX Case 5X5.25 5X3.5INT No PS Front USB Sound Firewire & eSATA
- Power Supply - Price: $51.84 CAD - Coolermaster Extreme Power 550W ATX 12V V2.01 Silent Power Supply 20/24PIN 120MM Fan
- Motherboard - Price: $170.83 CAD - EVGA Nforce 680I LT SLI Conroe LGA775 ATX 2PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2PCI SATA2 Sound GBLAN Motherboard
- Processor - Price: $202.41 CAD - Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Dual Core Processor LGA775 Conroe 2.66GHZ 1333FSB 4MB Retail
- Hard Drive - Price: $95.88 CAD - Western Digital SE16 500GB SATA2 7200RPM 16MB Cache 8.9MS Ncq Hard Drive Oem 3YR Mfr Warranty
- Video Card - Price: $249.99 CAD - Evga E-GEFORCE 8800GT Superclocked 650MHZ 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I Hdtv Out DIRECTX10 Video Card
- DVD Writer - Price: $31.75 CAD - Liteon LH-20A1S DVD+RW 20X8X16 DVD-RW 20X6X16 DL 8X 2MB SATA DVD Writer Black Retail Box
- Memory / RAM - Price: $62.54 CAD - Mushkin EM PC2-6400 2GB 2X1GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5-18 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit
- Thermal Compound - Price: $ 3.45 CAD - Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound Paste NON-ELECTRICAL Conductive 4 Gram
- CPU Heat Sink - Price: $18.38 CAD - Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro LGA775 2500RPM 45CFM
- Operating System - Price: $116.13 CAD - Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 64BIT DVD OEM
- Shipping - Price: $85.96 CAD - 2 Day Air Shipping
- Subtotal After Rebates - Price: $1,050.59
- Taxes - Price: $53.32 CAD
- Insurance - Price: $15.76 CAD
- Grand Total - Price: $1,119.67 CAD
Taking all info given to me today, with my price range etc, this seems to be my best option.
I will just migrate my IDE DVD W/RW from this pc to install drivers etc, and then back.
This case comes with 3 120mm fans already, if I need more, then they are easy enough to get. The Stock Fans are 45 CFM / 21 dBA, from what I've read on multiple site about the specs.
And Best of all...
My Income Tax refund is $1103 CAD, and this build comes in just over.. which is fine.. 20$ isn't anything to worry about.
One more thing.. Can you say "What The Hell"?
This is directly from my account with Canadian Revenue Agency
How can it say my return was mailed to me on the 26th of March, when its only the 20th today??
The stock heatsink is enough to keep it from actually dying or going into horrible performance, but really, $20 on a good after market heatsink can boost your performance and stability as much as if you upgraded to a better processor.
Also, stock fans are almost always, as a rule, loud and ineffecient, even when the case is from a good company. If you're going to use them, see if you can find out their CFM/dBA ahead of time, see how it compares to after-market fans, and see if the pressure will be balanced (preferably positive, but only slightly, as I posted above).
I second MrQ's idea of getting a GTS if you don't want to dish out money for a GTX. The GTS performs only slightly lower than a GTX in most games, and has lower heat output, while costing not much more than a GT.
Otherwise, it looks like you've adapted things pretty well and have a good build. If you've already ordered it, then good luck, and be sure to post about any trouble you may have during the actual build, I think several of us here have more than enough experience to figure it out. =P
Also, remember to give it a good burn-in and do some benchmarking to see how everything holds up or if there's any bottlenecks you could tweak out. Benchmarking multiple times in a row will also tell you how well it can handle temperatures while gaming, especially if you bench with 3DMark.
Also, stock fans are almost always, as a rule, loud and ineffecient, even when the case is from a good company. If you're going to use them, see if you can find out their CFM/dBA ahead of time, see how it compares to after-market fans, and see if the pressure will be balanced (preferably positive, but only slightly, as I posted above).
I second MrQ's idea of getting a GTS if you don't want to dish out money for a GTX. The GTS performs only slightly lower than a GTX in most games, and has lower heat output, while costing not much more than a GT.
Otherwise, it looks like you've adapted things pretty well and have a good build. If you've already ordered it, then good luck, and be sure to post about any trouble you may have during the actual build, I think several of us here have more than enough experience to figure it out. =P
Also, remember to give it a good burn-in and do some benchmarking to see how everything holds up or if there's any bottlenecks you could tweak out. Benchmarking multiple times in a row will also tell you how well it can handle temperatures while gaming, especially if you bench with 3DMark.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 160
Personally, I don't think it's the right time to build a new pc, unless you're going for a good cheap socket am2 build. With that said, I got some general advice...
As far as a PSU and case go, you shouldn't skimp as your making an investment (it's something you shouldn't need to replace much between builds). As far as cases go, you'd want to spend 50-80usd at least, and get a good solid steel case (Antec Nine Hundred can be found pretty cheap nowadays). In terms of fans, I wouldn't get too worried, as a better heat solution for your cpu or gfx goes a lot further than reducing ambient temps by a degree or two.
For a PSU, go for quality more than fans and looks -- or you'll be sorry. Never use a cheapo PSU like that logisys you have listed w/ the case (had the same PSU for a friend's build -- fried 5 minutes into a XP install, frying the mobo), or anything like Ultra or it's equivalent. As far as Thermaltake, Enermax, OCZ, or CoolerMaster goes, the quality varies greatly between different product lines and models as the internals are made by OEM contractors, so online reviews are your best bet for good info (if you're in a store, just weign them in hand -- more weight = higher quality). Brands like PCP&P, FSP, and Antec are always good, as they tend to do most of the internal work in-house. As far as wattage goes, for a moderate non-sli (or crossfire) rig 500-600 watts should give you more than enough.
As far as platform goes, it all depends. If you're strapped for cash (or just prefer AMD), you can go with a am2 mobo for around 60 bux that'll run a a64 x2 today and a 2000mhz MT phenom tomorrow, or you can spend the extra 30 bux to go with a am2+ chipset that'll give you full phenom support for the future. It's no lie that the lga775/c2d platform is the fastest at the moment, but you certainly pay for it and Intel has a nasty habit of requiring a new mobo for every new cpu rev they release.
As far as gfx cards go, it all comes down to personal preference, and if not that whatever good deal you can find. In all actuality, all the price-comparable options from both NV and ATI tend to be performance-comparable (besides ATI always being late-to-release, which seems to of ended with the 3xxx line), so no matter what you choose should work out as long as you get a good deal.
Wow, now that's a rant... hopefully you can dig something useful out of there, hehe.
As far as a PSU and case go, you shouldn't skimp as your making an investment (it's something you shouldn't need to replace much between builds). As far as cases go, you'd want to spend 50-80usd at least, and get a good solid steel case (Antec Nine Hundred can be found pretty cheap nowadays). In terms of fans, I wouldn't get too worried, as a better heat solution for your cpu or gfx goes a lot further than reducing ambient temps by a degree or two.
For a PSU, go for quality more than fans and looks -- or you'll be sorry. Never use a cheapo PSU like that logisys you have listed w/ the case (had the same PSU for a friend's build -- fried 5 minutes into a XP install, frying the mobo), or anything like Ultra or it's equivalent. As far as Thermaltake, Enermax, OCZ, or CoolerMaster goes, the quality varies greatly between different product lines and models as the internals are made by OEM contractors, so online reviews are your best bet for good info (if you're in a store, just weign them in hand -- more weight = higher quality). Brands like PCP&P, FSP, and Antec are always good, as they tend to do most of the internal work in-house. As far as wattage goes, for a moderate non-sli (or crossfire) rig 500-600 watts should give you more than enough.
As far as platform goes, it all depends. If you're strapped for cash (or just prefer AMD), you can go with a am2 mobo for around 60 bux that'll run a a64 x2 today and a 2000mhz MT phenom tomorrow, or you can spend the extra 30 bux to go with a am2+ chipset that'll give you full phenom support for the future. It's no lie that the lga775/c2d platform is the fastest at the moment, but you certainly pay for it and Intel has a nasty habit of requiring a new mobo for every new cpu rev they release.
As far as gfx cards go, it all comes down to personal preference, and if not that whatever good deal you can find. In all actuality, all the price-comparable options from both NV and ATI tend to be performance-comparable (besides ATI always being late-to-release, which seems to of ended with the 3xxx line), so no matter what you choose should work out as long as you get a good deal.
Wow, now that's a rant... hopefully you can dig something useful out of there, hehe.
[quote1206689068=-nocturne=-]
...Intel has a nasty habit of requiring a new mobo for every new cpu rev they release.[/quote1206689068]
Uh, it's AMD that does that. Don't get me wrong, I've been an AMD fanboy for a long time (until VERY recently), but LGA755 has been around forever. AMD's gone through 754, 939, AM2, and AM2+ in the same time frame.
Also, ABS power supplies are amazing, I'd suggest going with one of them. Their modular systems are a little more expensive, but VERY high quality and good output. And pretty. Antec power supplies tend to be pretty poorly made in my experience--I've actually had one explode. With smoke and everything.
...Intel has a nasty habit of requiring a new mobo for every new cpu rev they release.[/quote1206689068]
Uh, it's AMD that does that. Don't get me wrong, I've been an AMD fanboy for a long time (until VERY recently), but LGA755 has been around forever. AMD's gone through 754, 939, AM2, and AM2+ in the same time frame.
Also, ABS power supplies are amazing, I'd suggest going with one of them. Their modular systems are a little more expensive, but VERY high quality and good output. And pretty. Antec power supplies tend to be pretty poorly made in my experience--I've actually had one explode. With smoke and everything.
The biggest thing i can say about your setup is to not even bother with Vist 64x. I just *tried* to upgrade to it to use my 4 gigs of ram and it was a complete week long waste of stability, productivity, and general time. I dont know if it was specific to my setup, but the rumors about no drivers being avalable for it are actually true! I had blue screens and other assorted errors every 5 or 10 minutes as well. In retrospect, XP 64 bit is the way to go for gaming... Unless your a Dx10 sucker like me and settle for 32bit 
Your build looks pretty good. I recommend getting a quad core. You can't beat the prices of quad cores today. Especially since the new amd quad cores came out. I see 2 options for you.
1. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188012-Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017-Processor
2.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128074-Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103244-Processor
1. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188012-Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017-Processor
2.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128074-Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103244-Processor
[quote1206787893=Ephyu]
Well, guys, ya gotta remember, this thread's actually pretty much over, he's already ordered all the parts. I'm just waiting to hear how it went.
[/quote1206787893]
WRONG.
My cheque comes on monday, today is saturday, nothing is written in stone yet.
Well, guys, ya gotta remember, this thread's actually pretty much over, he's already ordered all the parts. I'm just waiting to hear how it went.
[/quote1206787893]
WRONG.
My cheque comes on monday, today is saturday, nothing is written in stone yet.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 160
[quote1206802576=krizpy]
The biggest thing i can say about your setup is to not even bother with Vist 64x...[/quote1206802576]
It's all the rage to hate MS and any new product they offer, but Vista's really not all the bad. I can recall feeling the same amount of contempt over XP when I was still on win98se, but we all grew to love it in the end...
As far as 32/64 bit goes, you'll mostly be dealing with 64bit program compatibility -- but that's not much of a problem anyways, and you can always use the 32bit installation that also comes on any retail Vista dvd if necessary.
As far as the rest of the OS goes, performance has never been all that bad, and most bad experiences with Vista scrapped up to incompatible software being installed by the OEMs (like Dell's Mediadirect, 30% reduction in performance before it was fixed). There were specific problems with the indexing service and access of network resources causing 'lags', but that seems to be all fixed in sp1. UAC can be annoying, but you can turn it right off in the Security Center (or Group Policy), and its great for keeping siblings and significant others from breaking your pc when you're not around. As far as the firewall goes -- it's great, provided you know how to use it. The MMC snap-in gives you full control over filtering and blocking, and provided you know how to set up the rules properly, it's all the firewall you could ever need (use winpatrol for HIPS -- that's not the job of a firewall).
Overall feelings about Vista from a personal standpoint... I just hate the candy-coated interface. The explorer address bar is a great feature, but all the search bars, cartoony skins, and drab aero effects just make Vista a pain to use sometimes. If you like widgets, docks, bars, and popups all displaying info you can just find in your taskbar, Vista is for you though... more useless eye-candy than you could ever need... and then there's dreamscene... but I just wish they'd add a 'XP Classic' shell, similar to the 'classic' to choose instead of Vista style.
The biggest thing i can say about your setup is to not even bother with Vist 64x...[/quote1206802576]
It's all the rage to hate MS and any new product they offer, but Vista's really not all the bad. I can recall feeling the same amount of contempt over XP when I was still on win98se, but we all grew to love it in the end...
As far as 32/64 bit goes, you'll mostly be dealing with 64bit program compatibility -- but that's not much of a problem anyways, and you can always use the 32bit installation that also comes on any retail Vista dvd if necessary.
As far as the rest of the OS goes, performance has never been all that bad, and most bad experiences with Vista scrapped up to incompatible software being installed by the OEMs (like Dell's Mediadirect, 30% reduction in performance before it was fixed). There were specific problems with the indexing service and access of network resources causing 'lags', but that seems to be all fixed in sp1. UAC can be annoying, but you can turn it right off in the Security Center (or Group Policy), and its great for keeping siblings and significant others from breaking your pc when you're not around. As far as the firewall goes -- it's great, provided you know how to use it. The MMC snap-in gives you full control over filtering and blocking, and provided you know how to set up the rules properly, it's all the firewall you could ever need (use winpatrol for HIPS -- that's not the job of a firewall).
Overall feelings about Vista from a personal standpoint... I just hate the candy-coated interface. The explorer address bar is a great feature, but all the search bars, cartoony skins, and drab aero effects just make Vista a pain to use sometimes. If you like widgets, docks, bars, and popups all displaying info you can just find in your taskbar, Vista is for you though... more useless eye-candy than you could ever need... and then there's dreamscene... but I just wish they'd add a 'XP Classic' shell, similar to the 'classic' to choose instead of Vista style.
Ordered As of 4/1/08
Coolermaster CM 690 Mid Tower Black ATX Case 5X5.25 5X3.5INT No PS Front USB Sound Firewire & eSATA
$67.50
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad Core Processor LGA775 Kentsfield 2.40GHZ 1066FSB 8MB Retail Box
$245.99
Crucial Ballistix PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL4-4-4-12 240PIN Dual Channel Memory Kit
$105.00
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 3.5IN 500GB SATA2 8.5MS 7200RPM 32MB Cache Ncq Hard Drive
$88.99
Pioneer DVR-212D Black DVD-RW 18X6X18 DVD+RW 18X8X18 Dl 10X Sata 2MB Oem Dvd Burner No Software
$26.68
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition OEM
$93.28
Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound Paste NON-ELECTRICAL Conductive 4 Gram
$6.99
BFG 650W Power Supply ATX V2.0 EPS12V 20/24PIN SLI CrossFire Ready
* $40.00 CAD Mail in Rebate for this item - click here
$93.69
BFG Nforce 680I LT SLI LGA775 Conroe ATX DDR2 2PCI-E16 2PCI SATA2 RAID Sound GBLAN 1394 Motherboard
$153.94
BFG GeForce 8800GT OC 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDCP HDTV Out DIRECTX10 Video Card
$221.52
* This order will ship Purolator Air.
* This order is FULLY insured for the full value.
Shipping & Handling $90.46
Insurance $16.55
Sub Total $1,103.58
GST(5%) $60.53
No PST - Outside BC residents
Total $1,271.12
Say what you want about BFG products, I've never had an issue with them. 8800GT OC is better then 9600GT SC.
Won't be overclocking right away, so don't need after market heatsink, and decided to go with XP over Vista, even tho it will only see 3.3GB RAM..
enough said
Coolermaster CM 690 Mid Tower Black ATX Case 5X5.25 5X3.5INT No PS Front USB Sound Firewire & eSATA
$67.50
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad Core Processor LGA775 Kentsfield 2.40GHZ 1066FSB 8MB Retail Box
$245.99
Crucial Ballistix PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL4-4-4-12 240PIN Dual Channel Memory Kit
$105.00
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 3.5IN 500GB SATA2 8.5MS 7200RPM 32MB Cache Ncq Hard Drive
$88.99
Pioneer DVR-212D Black DVD-RW 18X6X18 DVD+RW 18X8X18 Dl 10X Sata 2MB Oem Dvd Burner No Software
$26.68
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition OEM
$93.28
Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound Paste NON-ELECTRICAL Conductive 4 Gram
$6.99
BFG 650W Power Supply ATX V2.0 EPS12V 20/24PIN SLI CrossFire Ready
* $40.00 CAD Mail in Rebate for this item - click here
$93.69
BFG Nforce 680I LT SLI LGA775 Conroe ATX DDR2 2PCI-E16 2PCI SATA2 RAID Sound GBLAN 1394 Motherboard
$153.94
BFG GeForce 8800GT OC 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDCP HDTV Out DIRECTX10 Video Card
$221.52
* This order will ship Purolator Air.
* This order is FULLY insured for the full value.
Shipping & Handling $90.46
Insurance $16.55
Sub Total $1,103.58
GST(5%) $60.53
No PST - Outside BC residents
Total $1,271.12
Say what you want about BFG products, I've never had an issue with them. 8800GT OC is better then 9600GT SC.
Won't be overclocking right away, so don't need after market heatsink, and decided to go with XP over Vista, even tho it will only see 3.3GB RAM..
enough said
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,960
[quote1207082041=-nocturne=-]
It's all the rage to hate MS and any new product they offer, but Vista's really not all the bad. I can recall feeling the same amount of contempt over XP when I was still on win98se, but we all grew to love it in the end...
[/quote1207082041]
Typically I'd agree, but considering that Microsoft stopped shipping XP, then went back to shipping it due to poor sales, I have to go with the non-MS crowd on this. The problem here (and same for Apple, btw) is that the programming practices are exceptionally poor. Rather than build tight and effective code, they simply triple the hardware requirements.
Microsoft Windows Vista now does what Linux boxes were able to do for at least three years on much older hardware. Take a look at [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjQ4Nza34ak]Project Looking Glass[/ame] and know that can run on computers that are four to five years old. Check out [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYsxaMyFV2Y]XGL[/ame] or [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD7QraljRfM]Beryl[/ame] and you can see that Microsoft's eye-candy approach was poorly coded, poorly implemented, and is going to need a lot of work to be as effective as it can be.
Sadly, given Microsoft's propensity for reusing code, I don't know that they're likely to recover from this for several versions.
It's all the rage to hate MS and any new product they offer, but Vista's really not all the bad. I can recall feeling the same amount of contempt over XP when I was still on win98se, but we all grew to love it in the end...
[/quote1207082041]
Typically I'd agree, but considering that Microsoft stopped shipping XP, then went back to shipping it due to poor sales, I have to go with the non-MS crowd on this. The problem here (and same for Apple, btw) is that the programming practices are exceptionally poor. Rather than build tight and effective code, they simply triple the hardware requirements.
Microsoft Windows Vista now does what Linux boxes were able to do for at least three years on much older hardware. Take a look at [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjQ4Nza34ak]Project Looking Glass[/ame] and know that can run on computers that are four to five years old. Check out [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYsxaMyFV2Y]XGL[/ame] or [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD7QraljRfM]Beryl[/ame] and you can see that Microsoft's eye-candy approach was poorly coded, poorly implemented, and is going to need a lot of work to be as effective as it can be.
Sadly, given Microsoft's propensity for reusing code, I don't know that they're likely to recover from this for several versions.
I support your choice to go with Windows XP over Vista, but I have to say you could've gone with the 64 bit version and actually utilized as much RAM as you want. =/
Also, BFG Tech is a very good company, if you were referring to comments from me, I was supporting them the whole time. Also, after-market heat sinks aren't only for overclocking. The cooler it is, the faster it runs, it's not just to prevent damage or stay under some kind of "maximum," which is the average perception with heat sinks. That Arctic Cooling one I suggested performs at near watercooling levels, too.
Still, overall, it looks like a very nice build and I wish you the best of luck with it. Remember to ask here if you run into any issues during the build.
Also, BFG Tech is a very good company, if you were referring to comments from me, I was supporting them the whole time. Also, after-market heat sinks aren't only for overclocking. The cooler it is, the faster it runs, it's not just to prevent damage or stay under some kind of "maximum," which is the average perception with heat sinks. That Arctic Cooling one I suggested performs at near watercooling levels, too.
Still, overall, it looks like a very nice build and I wish you the best of luck with it. Remember to ask here if you run into any issues during the build.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 160
BFG tech is fine... it's all rebadged stuff (they don't actually 'manufacture' anything), but from what I've heard of the PSU's most are just rebadged FSP I believe. The graphics cards... reference boards with aftermarket cooling, so you can't complain.
As far as XP vs Vista, again... I equate Aero/Dreamscene to the 'comparable' visual effects in XP. You dont need them, you hardly ever see them, they effectively just create a 'forced delay' to do pretty little slides and fades, and anybody who knows anything just goes in and disables that garbage as their first tweak (for me, it's setup right in my slipstreamed installation). For anybody that's really concerned about gaming or performance, glitter is garbage -- and it's all easy enough to disable.
FWIW, I use XP but my gf's laptop is on vista. After going through and tweaking everything, I must say that I'm more satisfied with the rtm of Vista than I was with XP. I don't plan on switching to Vista myself anytime soon, but I do have to commend MS on all the useful functions and snap-ins they included with Vista.
As far as XP vs Vista, again... I equate Aero/Dreamscene to the 'comparable' visual effects in XP. You dont need them, you hardly ever see them, they effectively just create a 'forced delay' to do pretty little slides and fades, and anybody who knows anything just goes in and disables that garbage as their first tweak (for me, it's setup right in my slipstreamed installation). For anybody that's really concerned about gaming or performance, glitter is garbage -- and it's all easy enough to disable.
FWIW, I use XP but my gf's laptop is on vista. After going through and tweaking everything, I must say that I'm more satisfied with the rtm of Vista than I was with XP. I don't plan on switching to Vista myself anytime soon, but I do have to commend MS on all the useful functions and snap-ins they included with Vista.
