Engineers......why?

[Blackjack.old]

[quote1207162922=Chuck Nortress]
yea too many resources end up being wasted and you just get overpowered. i still dont understand the offensive engie either.
[/quote1207162922]


The "safest" way to play an offensive engineer is to place it a nearby, but not extremely RED LIGHT dangerous, combat zone. I play as an offensive engineer a lot on Gravel Pit and the best trick I've learned in my few months in TF2 as an engineer is that: Don't be afraid to lose your gear. That's the best way to start out as an offensive engineer. You do not cradle a single sentry, dispenser, tele, etc...Like you do in defensive mode. You move with the team, but slowly. Your the guy in the back.

Honestly, once you figure out how to properly play as an offensive engineer you can be as helpful as one-two medics with ubers. A good example I read somewhere was (involving teles and offensive engineers): Would you rather your Heavy spend 21 seconds or 35 seconds getting to the battle?

[/offtopic]


Instead of repeating something everyone else has said, which I usually go by as well: At least 30% of the losses on Dustbowl maps are from spies and scouts that go near the second cap when their team is about to cap the 1st. An engineer totally prevents this, well, nearly anyways. An aware engineer is probably a better way to put it.

 

[Monkeybits]

I think Booster has nailed this one. If you do not support your engineers, if you blow off ammo and then take the available ammo boxes, they will give up and build on the second point. Support them, and they'll get your teleporters up and working.

Playing Dustbowl I always still get gear up on the first point, at least to slow down the enemy. It also can surprise and stop individual players expecting to make it to the point without a medic.

There is an advantage to multiple sentry guns close together. It's true that a successful uber can take them out, but the pushback from the multiple firing sentries can actually keep an ubered player from getting to them or aiming sufficiently accurately to take them down. If you have 2-3 engies fixing 2-3 sentry guns and hiding behind them, even an uber may not be able to take them out. If they're doing that, they need a pyro to keep the spies off of them.

In short, support your engies and they'll be a valuable part of the holding action at the first point.

 

[Flippy the Squirrel]

[quote1207164812=Iadien]
[quote1207157873=Flippy Squirrel]
It works best when Engineers think about the coverage of sentry guns.[/quote1207157873]

This is another reason why sentries are near each other, there are only so many good places to put up a sentry.
[/quote1207164812]
To be clear, take the example of the courtyard in 2Fort. You could put all your SGs in one corner, but it's likely that they'll all be taken out. However, if you have SGs in opposite corners, covering each other, then it's that much harder for an uber to take them all out. So, one gets taken out? Big deal. Rebuild while you're covered by the other, which will have terminated the medic and his pal when the uber runs out ... and don't forget about the other classes who can get in the way and otherwise generally harass an uber to keep them from getting through.

 

[ln(e)]

I've seen as many occasions where rushes have failed because a sentry was there to slow them down.

Load balance. A sentry or two at first point is/are enough (extraneous resources should be allocated elsewhere unless point 1 is an impenetrable defense); unless the opposing team is horrendous, expect sentries at first point to be destroyed but at the very least be a cause for distraction.

 

[Lafinass]

Your avatar continues to freak me the heck out Eine.

 

[-nocturne=-]

There's too many variables to argue one point either way...

I'd say most of it is just given to the fact that most engies tend to be selfish and refuse to work together, if they're not just cowards or plainly stupid (harsh, but true)... even if there are three engies with two of them just planning to build on the last point, they could all help the guy on first get his sg to lvl three in the setup period and still have plenty of time to make it back to setup their own, but instead you have each one with his own setup and disp, all fighting over whatever spare ammo packs they can find laying around.

Not to say there aren't skilled engies out there... it's just very seldom that two are on the same team.

 

[Monkeybits]

Wow, Nocturne. That's almost enough to get me to stop playing engineer. I've had the majority of my co-engineers willing to help me with an SG, and I help them, too. We must be playing different servers.

 

[Flippy the Squirrel]

Eh, I've seen both selfish and cooperative engineers, much like I've seen the spectrum between them in all classes. Without belaboring the fact, the most successful players typically recognize that the game is called Team Fortress for a reason, and act accordingly.

 

[Purple.Huskies]

[quote1207184928=-nocturne=-]
There's too many variables to argue one point either way...

I'd say most of it is just given to the fact that most engies tend to be selfish and refuse to work together, if they're not just cowards or plainly stupid (harsh, but true)... even if there are three engies with two of them just planning to build on the last point, they could all help the guy on first get his sg to lvl three in the setup period and still have plenty of time to make it back to setup their own, but instead you have each one with his own setup and disp, all fighting over whatever spare ammo packs they can find laying around.

Not to say there aren't skilled engies out there... it's just very seldom that two are on the same team.
[/quote1207184928]

Leave me alone. I am a noob, but try to be good like Mr. Booster37.

 

[Booster37]

[quote1207186090=Purple.Huskies]
Leave me alone. I am a noob, but try to be good like Mr. Booster37.
[/quote1207186090]lol wut?

 

[Purple.Huskies]

[quote1207194478=Bøøster37]
[quote1207186090=Purple.Huskies]
Leave me alone. I am a noob, but try to be good like Mr. Booster37.
[/quote1207186090]lol wut?
[/quote1207194478]

*I try to be a good player like Booster.

Its a hard for a dog to speak human language. Woof woof!!

 

[-nocturne=-]

Well... most do help, but only after they got their gun setup and to lvl3, hehe.

I guess you could mark it up as a 'noob class' like heavy, which tends to be preferred by unskilled players, but with a small amount of skill and practice can become a force to be reckoned with.

Or, I might just be tired of always having 4-5 engies and no defense up in 2fort... hehe

 

[Purple.Huskies]

Most of the classes are easy to play but hard to truly master. Just as Valve intended.

 

[Raziel44]

if the game is capture the point then its save to say that about 90% of the time the first point gets captured... so at least 2 eng should start building at the first point and if we have more.. then they should build to the second point....then again.. there are spys everywhere.. xD no use of building when they sap you.. kill you.. and then kill all your teammates xD

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Heavy....a noob class??? You aint never played against me as one, but on the engi convo I actually play that class every now and then. When you have multiple engis that support each other and help each other out then things are much easier to keep going.

Warpath is a great example, if the engis assist each other and "walk" their sentries up one at a time then you have some cover while you build up and fortify the next area.

 

[Cicatriz]

[quote1207333003=Raziel44]
if the game is capture the point then its save to say that about 90% of the time the first point gets captured... so at least 2 eng should start building at the first point and if we have more.. then they should build to the second point....then again.. there are spys everywhere.. xD no use of building when they sap you.. kill you.. and then kill all your teammates xD
[/quote1207333003]


I'd rather take that 10% and moving back to the 2nd point rather than 0% and already be at the 2nd point. The more you make them push for that first point the more time is wasted. Of course there is always that spy that might get through, but if your D is any good they should recognize when its time to fall back to the 2nd point, so even if one is camping there you can get him in time.

I think its just horrible strategy and gameplay to just write off the first point as gone from the get go. I seriously get frustrated, especially in dustbowl, when 3 out of the 4 engy's are building at the 2nd point or inbetween the two points. I can understand maybe 1 out of the 4...maybe.