- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Messages
- 5,274
Pyro - the ultimate weapon of mass destruction. An experienced pyro with an experienced medic can do anything.
Disgruntled Pyros, unite!
- Thread starter Drew The Pirate
- Start date
[quote1211380731=Robotnik]
I recall your favorite server is Warpath? It has instant respawn, no? This sentence you wrote right now shows the problem with the class on server with 10-16 seconds respawn - if you die a a lot you are not useful as other combat classes on your team. [/quote1211380731]
If you take 2 players down when you go down, they have 2 players sitting in spawn for 10-16 seconds. Instant spawn or not, it is like marriage in Alabama (it's all relative).
[quote1211380731=Robotnik]
Ambush by a Heavy, Soldier, even the Demoman sometimes (2 granades in the face top flamethrower) is far more deadlier. If a Pyro jumps on some player...the chance that that the player will still have the time to kill the Pyro is high. Far too high. Afterburn can be easily put out by picking a medpack or grabing a Medic (few should be on the front lines). Also, we don't have the times now when people freaked out by being burned - right now most experienced players will ignore the flames, target you, kill you and continue playing while you wait in respawn. [/quote1211380731]
Yes, most players can kill pyro's 1 vs. 1 but that is largely due to the way most pyro's play. Chasing a soldier or a demo will get you killed. Running on top of stickies or a rocket to your feet is lethal. That is why you should burn them and let them run, then pull out the shotty and finish them off. If you chase them, you will die. I wish the shotty was a little more powerful or that the pyro ranged weapon was a little stronger. I try to eliminate their ability to run to a medic by targeting the medics. Simply put, no medics = death. Even with health packs, what does that save...one player in that area. The rest either die or have to retreat to another area for health. My main concern is not that I kill them. My focus is to disrupt them, kill their medics/ snipers, and injure the rest so the big guns (heavies, soldiers, and demo's) can finish them off.
[quote1211380731=Robotnik]
I think Pyro against a team which consists of good enough and aware players is almost useless. [/quote1211380731]
I guess we can agree to disagree on this statement. I think a skilled pyro is essential to any team’s success…good players or not. Anytime you want to witness it come to Warpath and watch Old Master roll through his enemies.
[quote1211380731=Robotnik]
Sorry if I offended any Pyro lover out there. I kinda play more for winning, because it's the only way I can have fun - goofing around is not what I seek in this game. :]
[/quote1211380731]
No offense….nothing wrong with a difference in opinion. Worst case scenario is we might all learn something.
!lol
I recall your favorite server is Warpath? It has instant respawn, no? This sentence you wrote right now shows the problem with the class on server with 10-16 seconds respawn - if you die a a lot you are not useful as other combat classes on your team. [/quote1211380731]
If you take 2 players down when you go down, they have 2 players sitting in spawn for 10-16 seconds. Instant spawn or not, it is like marriage in Alabama (it's all relative).
[quote1211380731=Robotnik]
Ambush by a Heavy, Soldier, even the Demoman sometimes (2 granades in the face top flamethrower) is far more deadlier. If a Pyro jumps on some player...the chance that that the player will still have the time to kill the Pyro is high. Far too high. Afterburn can be easily put out by picking a medpack or grabing a Medic (few should be on the front lines). Also, we don't have the times now when people freaked out by being burned - right now most experienced players will ignore the flames, target you, kill you and continue playing while you wait in respawn. [/quote1211380731]
Yes, most players can kill pyro's 1 vs. 1 but that is largely due to the way most pyro's play. Chasing a soldier or a demo will get you killed. Running on top of stickies or a rocket to your feet is lethal. That is why you should burn them and let them run, then pull out the shotty and finish them off. If you chase them, you will die. I wish the shotty was a little more powerful or that the pyro ranged weapon was a little stronger. I try to eliminate their ability to run to a medic by targeting the medics. Simply put, no medics = death. Even with health packs, what does that save...one player in that area. The rest either die or have to retreat to another area for health. My main concern is not that I kill them. My focus is to disrupt them, kill their medics/ snipers, and injure the rest so the big guns (heavies, soldiers, and demo's) can finish them off.
[quote1211380731=Robotnik]
I think Pyro against a team which consists of good enough and aware players is almost useless. [/quote1211380731]
I guess we can agree to disagree on this statement. I think a skilled pyro is essential to any team’s success…good players or not. Anytime you want to witness it come to Warpath and watch Old Master roll through his enemies.
[quote1211380731=Robotnik]
Sorry if I offended any Pyro lover out there. I kinda play more for winning, because it's the only way I can have fun - goofing around is not what I seek in this game. :]
[/quote1211380731]
No offense….nothing wrong with a difference in opinion. Worst case scenario is we might all learn something.
!lol
The biggest problem right now, is that pyro's have no ability to resist knock back, and so a soldiers are a death trap, even disrupted, as once they shoot at their feet, they win with the second rocket always, even if they die. sgs/heavy guns/medic needles, are even enough to complete stop any momentum you have, and the healing effect (most medics have this by now) nullifies any advantage plus outranges you if you try and run. (sorry if this is slightly disorganized, wrote it before stepping out.) i dont think other classes nerfed, but pyro to be buffed.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2008
- Messages
- 169
I just feel like any task I can accomplish as a pyro, which I enjoy, could be better and more easily accomplished by another class, which I may enjoy less, but generally helps the team more.
And don't try to tell me that a pyro ambush is a unique thing. If I ambush anyone as a soldier, they're dead, no questions asked. Pyro has to concentrate on the single opponent they're ambushing, and if someone's coming up beside you to kill you, now you have to change focus from a single enemy to two enemies. And you may light them up, but chances are that one or both are going to kill you. As a soldier, I can attack from far enough away that multiple threats can be assessed and dealt with at once.
Like I said, I've strayed from pyro recently due to this feeling. I've hardly played it at all since the medic influx - maybe that's changed things - but when I was playing pyro heavily, there were never any medics sticking to pyros like glue. They'd uber them to take out a sentry and ignore them any other time, sticking to their heavy bullet shields.
EDIT:
[quote1211388776=Arbitrary]
Also, have you been playing heavy more recently? HLStats only tracks the last 28 days of kill, etc.
[/quote1211388776]
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know that, and it's probably why my flamethrower kills are so low. My arguement remains though, that other classes can do the same things the pyro can do more effectively than the pyro himself can.
And don't try to tell me that a pyro ambush is a unique thing. If I ambush anyone as a soldier, they're dead, no questions asked. Pyro has to concentrate on the single opponent they're ambushing, and if someone's coming up beside you to kill you, now you have to change focus from a single enemy to two enemies. And you may light them up, but chances are that one or both are going to kill you. As a soldier, I can attack from far enough away that multiple threats can be assessed and dealt with at once.
Like I said, I've strayed from pyro recently due to this feeling. I've hardly played it at all since the medic influx - maybe that's changed things - but when I was playing pyro heavily, there were never any medics sticking to pyros like glue. They'd uber them to take out a sentry and ignore them any other time, sticking to their heavy bullet shields.
EDIT:
[quote1211388776=Arbitrary]
Also, have you been playing heavy more recently? HLStats only tracks the last 28 days of kill, etc.
[/quote1211388776]
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know that, and it's probably why my flamethrower kills are so low. My arguement remains though, that other classes can do the same things the pyro can do more effectively than the pyro himself can.
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2008
- Messages
- 238
Skydiving Pyro > Pyro.
I love pyro. Easily my favorite class, but it is hard (for me at least) to get a great kpd ratio. I did better with soldier or demo... but pyro for me is ideal. I'm a 'kamikazee' type player and with pyro its perfect.
My aim is to help the team and create as much chaos and disruption as possible. Which I do without lots a kills.... but when they see me coming thru the warpath tunnel ubered.... its funny to watch the other team turning tail and running. I usually nail a sg or two and everyone retreating allows the team to capture the pt... even though 10+ people are left on fire and only 2 or 3 die. I usually don't survive... I usually keep pushing thru to the NEXT point to keep them retreating while my team caps... then the uber dies... and me soon after. But I enjoy it.
Now, bring on the Molotov cocktails
My aim is to help the team and create as much chaos and disruption as possible. Which I do without lots a kills.... but when they see me coming thru the warpath tunnel ubered.... its funny to watch the other team turning tail and running. I usually nail a sg or two and everyone retreating allows the team to capture the pt... even though 10+ people are left on fire and only 2 or 3 die. I usually don't survive... I usually keep pushing thru to the NEXT point to keep them retreating while my team caps... then the uber dies... and me soon after. But I enjoy it.
Now, bring on the Molotov cocktails
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2008
- Messages
- 179
I play pyro half as much as I used to now that the achievements are out. I found it hard enough to go on killing sprees when any of the classes can one shot you at point blank compared to your flamethrower which is lucky to kill them in under 5 seconds unless it crits. Now that there are 3-5 medics on a team I can be ubered and light 10 people on fire, catching them all by surprise and doing a ton of damage, and yet after I die I can check to see that maybe one of the people I lit on fire actually died with all the healers around. It's gotten to the point where I'm better at killing sgs as a pyro than as a heavy or sollie simply because it's a waste of time to attack the actual players. It's incredibly depressing to charge a medic and have him either run backwards healing himself faster than I damage him or simply charge at me and peg me in the forehead with a bonesaw while still having time to run off and pickup some health. With all that said it's still my favorite class and I'll play it anyways.
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 27
Being a person who plays spy a lot I have a problem with Pyros. Now don't get me wrong, I believe every class should have a class against which they have trouble.
For instance, the nemesis of Engineers is spies. However, a good engineer can ensure that a spy can never kill him and his structures. A Scout's nemesis is the Heavy because he can kill them extremely quickly and the fast maneuvering doesn't do a whole lot. But, a good scout can still beat a Heavy no matter how good he is. This is similar to the Demoman Scout relationship. A decent Scout can typically dodge stickies to kill. However, a good Demoman can usually get off a few pipes and kill the Scout if they have good aim and prediction of movement.
However, what can Spies do against Pyros? A single lucky mouse click and a cloaked, disguised spy is utterly visible to the entire enemy team. And don't say a good spy can just avoid Pyros, because it is impossible (with trigger happy pyros). Spies are a secretive class, and that secrecy is the only thing they have going for them. Yet, any player can prance around with flamethrower spouting out flames everywhere and kill Spies constantly. It is the only relationship I know of where noobs always prevail over skilled players. Now you might say, well Spies can backpedal and fire their revolver. But wait...Spies are slower than Pyros. After a spy is set on fire they are dead. That is it. No questions. Not only is the Spy helpless against Pyros in every situation (unless they are standing still), but the Pyro makes the Spy utterly defeated by everyone on the enemy team the second they rake their flamethrower across the right area.
I respect Pyros, and understand it takes skill to play them well, just like any class, but in the Pyro-Spy case, skill cannot counter skill like every other circumstance.
For instance, the nemesis of Engineers is spies. However, a good engineer can ensure that a spy can never kill him and his structures. A Scout's nemesis is the Heavy because he can kill them extremely quickly and the fast maneuvering doesn't do a whole lot. But, a good scout can still beat a Heavy no matter how good he is. This is similar to the Demoman Scout relationship. A decent Scout can typically dodge stickies to kill. However, a good Demoman can usually get off a few pipes and kill the Scout if they have good aim and prediction of movement.
However, what can Spies do against Pyros? A single lucky mouse click and a cloaked, disguised spy is utterly visible to the entire enemy team. And don't say a good spy can just avoid Pyros, because it is impossible (with trigger happy pyros). Spies are a secretive class, and that secrecy is the only thing they have going for them. Yet, any player can prance around with flamethrower spouting out flames everywhere and kill Spies constantly. It is the only relationship I know of where noobs always prevail over skilled players. Now you might say, well Spies can backpedal and fire their revolver. But wait...Spies are slower than Pyros. After a spy is set on fire they are dead. That is it. No questions. Not only is the Spy helpless against Pyros in every situation (unless they are standing still), but the Pyro makes the Spy utterly defeated by everyone on the enemy team the second they rake their flamethrower across the right area.
I respect Pyros, and understand it takes skill to play them well, just like any class, but in the Pyro-Spy case, skill cannot counter skill like every other circumstance.
Spies are underpowered.. Pyros are not..
Both require skill and tactics.. and both punish rushing in
Pyros require a distraction to burn their enemies from behind and send the running for the med's..
Spies require that the player avoid enemies and infiltrate their base without detection.. increasing their chances of survival.. and of so.. their chances of success..
Spies are way underpowered like this.. and as Soviet said:
Everyone can use a tactic to counter their counter-class, but spies, as they are too easily defeated by them.
People say it takes alot more skill the be a good spy than anything else.. this is true.. but people also say that spies reap the rewards from it.. this is a lie..
I have tried sapping sentries and trying to stab the engie thereafter.. alot.. and i almost always die..
Simple thing: Spies cant even dominate the ones theyre supposed to be the counter of..
Spies need to be buffed a hell of alot up.. not pyros..
Both require skill and tactics.. and both punish rushing in
Pyros require a distraction to burn their enemies from behind and send the running for the med's..
Spies require that the player avoid enemies and infiltrate their base without detection.. increasing their chances of survival.. and of so.. their chances of success..
Spies are way underpowered like this.. and as Soviet said:
Everyone can use a tactic to counter their counter-class, but spies, as they are too easily defeated by them.
People say it takes alot more skill the be a good spy than anything else.. this is true.. but people also say that spies reap the rewards from it.. this is a lie..
I have tried sapping sentries and trying to stab the engie thereafter.. alot.. and i almost always die..
Simple thing: Spies cant even dominate the ones theyre supposed to be the counter of..
Spies need to be buffed a hell of alot up.. not pyros..
- Joined
- May 8, 2008
- Messages
- 15,015
[quote1211411583=Captain Mental]
Pyros should be able to throw molotov cocktails!!!!!
[/quote1211411583]
Oh god please no. Lol I can see it now... Pyros the new Demos; Easily taking out sentrys and then running in to blow the engineers to bits. *quivers*
Pyros should be able to throw molotov cocktails!!!!!
[/quote1211411583]
Oh god please no. Lol I can see it now... Pyros the new Demos; Easily taking out sentrys and then running in to blow the engineers to bits. *quivers*
I've got nearly 14 hours clocked as pyro and almost 3 hours as heavy and I trump my heavy kills by a ton. I love playing pyro, but I'm horrible at it. We could get rid of the nerf of where whenever we're in pursuit of someone and they run to a wall and we hit the wall that our Flamethrower does not go out, that annoys the heck out of me. By the time you're turned around and clicking to fire, you're usually already dead. Other than that, the Pyro's fun to play.
