What is Considered Camping

[ApexLock]

With the flurry of new rule changes to our Jailbreak servers and our TTT servers, a much needed set of rules and specific changes were added that greatly benefited our servers, but with it, came a few rules that I believe the majority of regular players seem to dislike as well.

One of these rules, the defining of camping vents, has drastically changed the way many maps are played as well as changing one of the core elements of jailbreak, rebelling.

With the new rules, camping vents is defined as:

Camping would be considered standing and blocking the entrance, exits or inside of the secret/vent. CT’s are allowed to stare down at secrets/vents as long as they are in sight of T’s or pursuing rebellers

This allows CTs to stare down any vent, any secret, and basically restrict any part of rebelling, making the concept of rebelling virtually impossible. Previously, you could sometimes slip by CTs who were hyper aware, but now, you can barely make it close to vents, often killed by a CT sitting a few feet in front of the cell staring down the cell, or a row of AWPers who are double scoped into the tiny hole which is vents.

The new definition of camping vents/secrets makes the "rebelling experience" a bland cycle of death, nullifying the purpose of many secrets and vents, now just acting as props.

A general consensus, most people I asked disliked this change, many Ts saying how the rebelling aspect is dropping off a bit (mostly because they are tired of repeatedly dying), while some CTs saying they dislike it because it is just purely "toxic."

Thanks for taking your time to read this, leave what you think of this below (Is the current definition fine? or should it be changed how it was before/a new revised draft?)!

 

[Corrupted]

Whenever I was reading the rules when they came out I didn't notice it. I think it's a terrible rule since ct's can constantly camp the vent cell on dojo, ct's can camp the kitchen secret on vip, any many many others. I honestly think this should change, just like apex said this makes the "rebelling experience" a bland of cycle of death. I think this should definetly be changed.

 

[Orange]

The idea is (and I agreed with Jacko on this) that the CT's job is to prevent Ts from rebelling. There are other ways to rebel then going to vents and sitting on a corner waiting for CTs to pursue. It makes maps like SpyVsSpy and Dojo much more balanced for the CT side.

On the more practical side of things, this was literally impossible to admin anyways. CTs would keep vents in their peripheral and just flick to them whenever a T went towards them (resulting in freekills because, lets face it, CTs aim isn't the greatest). Also it would require admins to either slay and spectate them to verify that they're not camping, or to keep an eye on the CTs from within stack or as a CT. Overall, difficult to admin.

I think its better this way.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

Coordinate with your team to rebel. Target one or two guards and rush them. They don’t have enough bullets nor the aim required to kill everyone rushing.

 

[Matz]

We had a simple rule before, you must be in vision of Ts at all times.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

We had a simple rule before, you must be in vision of Ts at all times.

Well in vision or if you knew a T was pinned down, but you didn't want to push you could wait for backup even though you couldn't directly see the T who was rebelling.

We also had CT areas, and generally more, how should I put this politely, respectful players.

 

[RedDragonKnight]

We had a simple rule before, you must be in vision of Ts at all times.

In the old rules, it was never specifically stated that you need to be within sight of the ts at all times. However, there were rules dictating the responsibility of the guards, the main priority being to maintain control of the prison and prisoners. It would be hard to exert a controlling presence if you're nowhere near the ts, so many people said you needed to be within view at all times, but it was a bit more complicated than that.

 

[Corrupted]

Coordinate with your team to rebel. Target one or two guards and rush them. They don’t have enough bullets nor the aim required to kill everyone rushing.

Have you ever tried to coordinate with your team to rebel? If so you would know it doesn't work most of the time. It only work's sometimes if everyone start spamming it. Example "Rush warden at 7:30" whenever everyone started spamming it than it worked. But if you go on to jailbreak and say that it probably won't work.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

Generally I play Jailbreak maps, not maps that have 1 vent to armory, 3000 secrets, and 60 minigames. Usually these maps have multiple ways to rebel and allow you to work with your team. It's not my fault if you guys play with teammates that wanna be LoneRangers and not work as a team.

People have to know when you rebel, you probably aren't going to live every time, but if the survivors of the rebellion do well then the round will be quickly over.

I don't know why y'all acting like its not the player base at fault for failing to learn to rebel and such, but it is. If you have teammates that don't want to rebel and you're one of a few that do, it generally doesn't work out in your favor if its not well planned and executed with enough people.

I don't know, suppose 10 years of Jailbreak experience doesn't matter anymore, its not like it plays as such anyways.

 

[Light Souls]

I personally dislike this rule change, but we are all entitled to our own opinions. The reason being is that, as A ApexLock mentioned, it does to some extent crush a rebellion. Yes it is a CT's job to do so, but when it's CT sided it becomes a problem. I do understand that T's can coordinate and rush CT's, but when CT's aren't baiting (as they should be), it does become near impossible to coordinate a rebellion with 30+ T's on (unless you want to chat spam :L). Not only that, but it when you have multiple CT's staring at a vent, or even a teleport secret, its extremely unlikely for any T to get into a vent/secret. I'd also like to add that not everyone rebels, there are newer players that just want a synopsis of the gamemode and just want to live as long as possible, so why give CT's more leverage if there are less rebellers as more and more new players join? I don't want to sound too biased as I do spend most of my time on T and do occasionally get frustrated when T's don't rebel as its the objective of the game but, overall the system should be balanced, which I believe this revised rule doesn't achieve.

 

[Mayhem Death]

I will speak with Custom Stats and EpicFlamingos on this matter to get their insight, but I wanna point something out that has been brought up in this thread already.

While yes, vents are a fantastic way of getting a rebellion started, BUT there are a multitude of ways to rebel as well that aren't involving the vent systems. When you only rely on one system to rebel, you are creating a player environment that is stagnant and redundant. Do you know how to coordinate rebellions better? Get a group of people in Teamspeak and play Jail together so you can coordinate rebellions. I swear it won't kill anyone to be in a Teamspeak room and talking with each other. It actually makes Jail exponentially more enjoyable when you are doing things like this because you find more ways to enjoy the server.

But again, I will talk with those 2 to get their thoughts. Just thought I would throw in that insight as well.

 

[Scourge]

I will speak with Custom Stats and EpicFlamingos on this matter to get their insight, but I wanna point something out that has been brought up in this thread already.

While yes, vents are a fantastic way of getting a rebellion started, BUT there are a multitude of ways to rebel as well that aren't involving the vent systems. When you only rely on one system to rebel, you are creating a player environment that is stagnant and redundant. Do you know how to coordinate rebellions better? Get a group of people in Teamspeak and play Jail together so you can coordinate rebellions. I swear it won't kill anyone to be in a Teamspeak room and talking with each other. It actually makes Jail exponentially more enjoyable when you are doing things like this because you find more ways to enjoy the server.

But again, I will talk with those 2 to get their thoughts. Just thought I would throw in that insight as well.

Just curious is there a T side TS and a Guard TS? If not, I think it would be used more if there was one for T and one for Guard, and these types of rebels would be much easier to coordinate.

 

[Mayhem Death]

Just curious is there a T side TS and a Guard TS? If not, I think it would be used more if there was one for T and one for Guard, and these types of rebels would be much easier to coordinate.

I like that idea of implementing that into Teamspeak. I can speak with my bosses to see if we can get that done!

 

[Scourge]

I like that idea of implementing that into Teamspeak. I can speak with my bosses to see if we can get that done!

That would be great, because I think that could be a reason why people avoid talking about rebel in TS, because the guards could hear them say it and inevitably camp it because thats just human nature to know if something like that is happening to try to stop it

 

[Corrupted]

One problem with that idea, people could ghost. From what I have heard there was a "rebelling discod" where people just ghosted. Im not sure about this, that's only what I heard.

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[Corrupted]

Also just wanted to say this, it's not all about camping vents. It's also camping some secrets, I can't think of a good example, but one example could be the kitchen secret on vipinthemix.

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[Drewerth]

I like that idea of implementing that into Teamspeak. I can speak with my bosses to see if we can get that done!

But this is literally allowing ghosting in TS and, disregarding that, makes it extremely easy to rebel beyond the already small difficulty of rebelling.

 

[Michael Bolton]

But this is literally allowing ghosting in TS and, disregarding that, makes it extremely easy to rebel beyond the already small difficulty of rebelling.

TS used to have a Guards room and a general Jail room anyway. It does NOT allow ghosting. If people want to ghost, they'll find ways to do it whether a TS room exists or not. Also, if people are ghosting, do we not have admins to deal with it? It's a TS room. How are there complaints against it?

As far allowing CTs to stare at vents/secrets/whatever, they're going to do regardless or not if there's a rule for or against it. You wanna make the rule better? Take the part that directly allows it out. Clearly stating it means it'll happen more often because someone will read it and tell others. Saying you can't is going to be impossible to admin. Just make the rule this:

Camping would be considered standing and blocking the entrance, exits or inside of the secret/vent.

Lastly, since this keeps getting brought up, Ts are not going to coordinate a rebellion. Stop dreaming. It never works because most of the T team thinks it's funnier to sit back and watch everyone die as they rush. I haven't seen a GOOD coordinated rebellion since Source.

I think the better point to make would be, if a CT wants to stare at a vent or secret, they're tunnel visioning. Take advantage of it and target them if you have nades or a gun or something.

 

[carter227]

We need to get rid of this rule, please. First, talking with T's does not work out, like saying "RUSH VENTS!" Mainly because CT's will camp vents and T's don't want to die and wait out an entire round. Second, on Dojo, CT's camp vents hard core. They sit there with an awp, negev, or right above the cell and camp it the entire round. It is not hard to kill T's in vents. All they have, usually, is a mac10 and usp, or scout. In Spy vs Spy CT's can also kill T's very easy. They pursue vents through armory and mass murder the T's. On Obama CT's camp vents as much as on the other maps.

What I'm trying to say is that it is very easy to kill T's in vents. You are telling T's to use teamwork, shouldn't CT's to? "Peak in 3, 2, 1," or "Drop down into vents at 7:30"

 

[Rogue Sniper]

Maybe get maps that have better vent systems? Maybe get maps that focus on that whole Jailbreak aspect more?

Idk, no one reads these anyways...