It has been confirmed (Pyro achievements)
- Thread starter Sylar(inactive)
- Start date
- Joined
- May 30, 2008
- Messages
- 11
[quote1212196950=Robotnik]
[quote1212159057=Flippy Squirrel]
Saying that Pyros are worthless in TF2 is like saying that Knights are worthless in chess. It's just a matter of understanding how to use your gamepiece.
[/quote1212159057]
The whole point is that Pyro is described as the king of CQC, yet Heavy, Soldier, Demoman, even Scout deal more damage in close range faster then he does. Those classes are also more deadly in ambush. He also cannot beat any of those classes in close range in 1v1 situation, yet he SHOULD. Before he can deal 175, 200 or 300 dmg...those guys will just kill him faster. Even if we are talking about ambush, nowadays even average players are prepared for a Pyro behind a corner. Let's see the other classes now. Scouts usually hang out in the open, where Pyro is not good, Engineers somewhere close to their sentry, Snipers in distant spots, Medic with their patient, which are usually Heavies, Soldiers, Demomen...I don't like the idea of a class that is good for Spy checking and occasionally killing a support class who got too brave.
This game is about ranged damage 90% of the time. Pyro's domain is point balnk to close range so he needs to ambush. Yet his weapon and health do not give him the chance to do that effectively.
Not matter how one thinks he's a good Pyro, he can switch to Heavy/Soldier/Demoman and be twice as deadly to the enemy team. And that's why Pyro is broken.
This is how I see it.
Edit: BR47 I just saw your post, I agree with that.
[/quote1212196950]
You may have damage models to make your claim, but I see it differently.
I'm a huge fan of the 24/7 Convoy server and on that server I am almost always Pyro (a class I play much less on other maps).
Pyro is, to me, the anti-sniper. I find it relatively easy to sneak across and get behind snipers, who are blinded by their scopes, and toast them. Also, by circle strafing I can beat any class in CQC except for... you guessed it, another Pyro which I can usually beat only half the time.
It always takes two or three guys to beat me, so if I can make 3 to 5 kills on average in each solo outing to the other barge, I figure I'm doing very well.
Now I find my Kung Fu Pyro Style quite helpful on Convoy... But in a push map like Goldmine I fail to use Pyro effectively and switch off between Demoman and Heavy. Dirtworks is another map where my Pyro works well.
So I think a lot of it is about the map. Also, a lot is about style. Some players play to survive. I don't understand that, but its not my style so its cool. I rush and don't care about frequent deaths. I'll rush into most places, sure I will die. My philosophy is that if I take out two or more guys, or soften up a room, or cause someone else to have to heal, then my inevitable death advantages my teammates.
In Convoy, for example, I attack the enemy spawn a lot. Killing transporter entrances, snipers, spies, making guys respawn again, forcing engineers to build turrets downstairs instead on in intel and I just pound and pound on one spot. As long as I have their attention downstairs, my team mates can go upstairs and deal with the intel.
Ultimately, the map, tactics, play style and all that factor in. Numbers, like damage, tell an important part of the story, but not a whole story. That's why I love Pyro. Pyro serves me well on certain maps and helps me help my team.
[quote1212159057=Flippy Squirrel]
Saying that Pyros are worthless in TF2 is like saying that Knights are worthless in chess. It's just a matter of understanding how to use your gamepiece.
[/quote1212159057]
The whole point is that Pyro is described as the king of CQC, yet Heavy, Soldier, Demoman, even Scout deal more damage in close range faster then he does. Those classes are also more deadly in ambush. He also cannot beat any of those classes in close range in 1v1 situation, yet he SHOULD. Before he can deal 175, 200 or 300 dmg...those guys will just kill him faster. Even if we are talking about ambush, nowadays even average players are prepared for a Pyro behind a corner. Let's see the other classes now. Scouts usually hang out in the open, where Pyro is not good, Engineers somewhere close to their sentry, Snipers in distant spots, Medic with their patient, which are usually Heavies, Soldiers, Demomen...I don't like the idea of a class that is good for Spy checking and occasionally killing a support class who got too brave.
This game is about ranged damage 90% of the time. Pyro's domain is point balnk to close range so he needs to ambush. Yet his weapon and health do not give him the chance to do that effectively.
Not matter how one thinks he's a good Pyro, he can switch to Heavy/Soldier/Demoman and be twice as deadly to the enemy team. And that's why Pyro is broken.
This is how I see it.
Edit: BR47 I just saw your post, I agree with that.
[/quote1212196950]
You may have damage models to make your claim, but I see it differently.
I'm a huge fan of the 24/7 Convoy server and on that server I am almost always Pyro (a class I play much less on other maps).
Pyro is, to me, the anti-sniper. I find it relatively easy to sneak across and get behind snipers, who are blinded by their scopes, and toast them. Also, by circle strafing I can beat any class in CQC except for... you guessed it, another Pyro which I can usually beat only half the time.
It always takes two or three guys to beat me, so if I can make 3 to 5 kills on average in each solo outing to the other barge, I figure I'm doing very well.
Now I find my Kung Fu Pyro Style quite helpful on Convoy... But in a push map like Goldmine I fail to use Pyro effectively and switch off between Demoman and Heavy. Dirtworks is another map where my Pyro works well.
So I think a lot of it is about the map. Also, a lot is about style. Some players play to survive. I don't understand that, but its not my style so its cool. I rush and don't care about frequent deaths. I'll rush into most places, sure I will die. My philosophy is that if I take out two or more guys, or soften up a room, or cause someone else to have to heal, then my inevitable death advantages my teammates.
In Convoy, for example, I attack the enemy spawn a lot. Killing transporter entrances, snipers, spies, making guys respawn again, forcing engineers to build turrets downstairs instead on in intel and I just pound and pound on one spot. As long as I have their attention downstairs, my team mates can go upstairs and deal with the intel.
Ultimately, the map, tactics, play style and all that factor in. Numbers, like damage, tell an important part of the story, but not a whole story. That's why I love Pyro. Pyro serves me well on certain maps and helps me help my team.
- Joined
- May 9, 2008
- Messages
- 504
[blockquote]Pyro is, to me, the anti-sniper. I find it relatively easy to sneak across and get behind snipers, who are blinded by their scopes, and toast them. Also, by circle strafing I can beat any class in CQC except for... you guessed it, another Pyro which I can usually beat only half the time.[/blockquote]
SNAAAAAAAAAAAAKE
SNAAAAAAAAAAAAKE
