CSGO TTT Poor Rule.

[Kapi]

no one here will like how im going to say this, but because i love social deduction games i have to say this shit. "Do not kill players based off of sound, location, or weapon. You must have DEFINITIVE proof to kill a player." is complete bullshit and sides with those unable to conceal their actions appropriately. e.g. someone is sitting in an adjacent building in desperados using a scout to fire in another persons direction. he fires multiple times. i see the innocent react it to by moving around, no words. i move to the ladder in his direction based on the sound and move up the ladder, saying nothing. i blast him away and Id his corpse. sure enough, traitor. however i'm in trouble because i deduced the situation based on mostly sound.

this rule is absurd and ruins many of the deduction parts of the game and boil it down to just merely being in the room. it infests so many TTT servers across the various games that host servers for it and its ****ing killing me. this rule is just a safe haven for those who cant handle getting caught with their pants down and refuse to take the L. i dont give a **** if you dont like how im presenting this, but you sure as **** know what im saying. please reconsider this. it genuinely ruins any fun of the game mode and turns it into "how quickly can i get banned for reading these terrible actors/habits people have?". its a social deduction game. let people use their ****ing brains, for the love of god.

 

[Kapi]

that specifically is what is great about social deduction games. first off let me say in this example (which isnt really an example as it happened and is wonderful at illustrating my point) i was correct 100%. the guy with the scout popping rounds off was a traitor, the guy he was shooting was innocent. but to get to what's great about these games is that it can breed those scenarios. so it sharpens others intuition with basic, yet solid evidence. if what you describe was in fact the case i would happily take a slay or two. i shouldnt have to risk being banned because i used the magic meat in my skull.

thats the entire underlying reason im upset and im only bringing it up here because i've seen shit like this far, far too often. it kills these games. it turns it far more into a cryfest bitching to admins about RDM than darkRP in gmod.

i guess i should add that i mean specifically the sound part of the rule. sound is so critical in videogames and disallowing me to use it just doesnt feel good at all. if there were say, other people right next to his position i wouldnt have engaged like i did. but the dude was completely alone, crouched, popping 3+ rounds off at some dude visibly just running to live. it was the most obvious shit in the world and i get punished for it.

 

[DDZ ZioNeX]

that specifically is what is great about social deduction games. first off let me say in this example (which isnt really an example as it happened and is wonderful at illustrating my point) i was correct 100%. the guy with the scout popping rounds off was a traitor, the guy he was shooting was innocent. but to get to what's great about these games is that it can breed those scenarios. so it sharpens others intuition with basic, yet solid evidence. if what you describe was in fact the case i would happily take a slay or two. i shouldnt have to risk being banned because i used the magic meat in my skull.

thats the entire underlying reason im upset and im only bringing it up here because i've seen shit like this far, far too often. it kills these games. it turns it far more into a cryfest bitching to admins about RDM than darkRP in gmod.

See there is the flaw in this logic, you think it's ok to kill him based off sound and if it's an inno then all you have to do is slay to make it even. We should let this go and let you continue to rdm off sound as long as you slay regardless of you continuously ruining another players round.

 

[Kapi]

See there is the flaw in this logic, you think it's ok to kill him based off sound and if it's an inno then all you have to do is slay to make it even. We should let this go and let you continue to rdm off sound as long as you slay regardless of you continuously ruining another players round.

the sound is the catalyst but not the entire picture. im not looking to turn a social deduction game into a deathmatch. admins are there to prevent that and im taking that into account. im here to have fun in a social game, using my brain to deduce whats around me. like god ****ing intended.

 

[Tyron]

There is a 'flaw' in the rule but at the same time like countless others have stated in a 'perfect word' we could do a case by case, but the rule easily prevents mass rdms that happen on several other servers without rules like this as stated by others.

However in your scenario

"someone is sitting in an adjacent building in desperados using a scout to fire in another persons direction. he fires multiple times. i see the innocent react it to by moving around, no words. i move to the ladder in his direction based on the sound and move up the ladder, saying nothing. i blast him away and Id his corpse. sure enough, traitor. however i'm in trouble because i deduced the situation based on mostly sound."

Someone reacting doesn't make them inno(yes he was in your case but you didn't know that which you clearly stated till you ID the T of who you killed) So why let as you put it let someone

"use their brain to deduce whats around me. like god ****ing intended."

But you didn't really deduce anything just like most players don't. You heard gun shots go to the area see someone shooting and you instantly assume omg traitor and kill him. If that player isn't a traitor you RDM'd then get slayed causing you to waste one players round/turn(which can cause players not wanting to play, especially if they are new on our server) and yours several times(based off your slays given) because you "deduced" he was a traitor.

this rule is absurd and ruins many of the deduction parts of the game and boil it down to just merely being in the room. it infests so many TTT servers across the various games that host servers for it and its ****ing killing me. this rule is just a safe haven for those who cant handle getting caught with their pants down and refuse to take the L. Please reconsider this. it genuinely ruins any fun of the game mode and turns it into "how quickly can i get banned for reading these terrible actors/habits people have?". its a social deduction game. let people use their ****ing brains, for the love of god.

The rules doesn't ruin fun for anyone, well maybe you as you kindly put it. But this rule help keep players in the server and alive from RDM because someone thinks they are Sherlock Holmes and really just got lucky when following a sound. The best scenario for this situation would have been to wait till he got the kill see if he attempts to id the body or not and kill them based off that.(Not identifying, hiding, destroying bodies or hanging them to surfaces.) As others stated that player or countless others in game could have saw the person kill an inno then maybe not id the body or id it and its an inno so then they couldn't kill him right away but caught the name etc. There are way to many variables and this rule easily helps prevents a lot of RDMing.

-1 more negative repercussions then positive in my opinion.

Sidenote: lets keep this civil... if you can't discus this rule or respect the input of others than stop... If someone says something that doesn't add to the discussion just ignore it and move on. We understand your frustrated/annoyed with the rule and situation at hand the swearing and everything doesn't help with this.

 

[RedDragonKnight]

I never cared much for TTT, but as I said before I think the rule is too restrictive in how it completely stifles all forms of evidence except for what you visually see. This is something that personally happened to me and I haven't played since then.

I dont know the map, but it's not that relevant as it can really happen anywhere. Sound is a key part to counterstike as a whole.

Anyways, myself and another innocent were chilling in a room. We had just checked the surrounding rooms and nobody was on them. A lot of people had already been IDd so there wasnt a whole lot going on anymore. He goes around a corner into another room, and I hear the footsteps of a third person running towards my pal. Within a few seconds of contact, boom, sound of a sawed off shotgun and my pal is immediately identified by the third person, a fatal mistake. This immediately told me who entered the room, and exactly how deep into the room they had gone. It was impossible for someone to shift walk that distance quick enough, and the lack of any other gunshots told me that nobody else was in the room, and if they were, they either didnt see what happened or were in on it. So when the third person comes around the corner, name matched as the one who IDd my boi, and so I shot him. Traitor. But I got in trouble for killing based off sound even though I had enough evidence to reasonably know said person is a traitor.

To disregard evidence such as this defeats the purpose of deductive reasoning, and just turns it into running around until someone shoots you so you can shoot back.

 

[DDZ ZioNeX]

I never cared much for TTT, but as I said before I think the rule is too restrictive in how it completely stifles all forms of evidence except for what you visually see. This is something that personally happened to me and I haven't played since then.

I dont know the map, but it's not that relevant as it can really happen anywhere. Sound is a key part to counterstike as a whole.

Anyways, myself and another innocent were chilling in a room. We had just checked the surrounding rooms and nobody was on them. A lot of people had already been IDd so there wasnt a whole lot going on anymore. He goes around a corner into another room, and I hear the footsteps of a third person running towards my pal. Within a few seconds of contact, boom, sound of a sawed off shotgun and my pal is immediately identified by the third person, a fatal mistake. This immediately told me who entered the room, and exactly how deep into the room they had gone. It was impossible for someone to shift walk that distance quick enough, and the lack of any other gunshots told me that nobody else was in the room, and if they were, they either didnt see what happened or were in on it. So when the third person comes around the corner, name matched as the one who IDd my boi, and so I shot him. Traitor. But I got in trouble for killing based off sound even though I had enough evidence to reasonably know said person is a traitor.

To disregard evidence such as this defeats the purpose of deductive reasoning, and just turns it into running around until someone shoots you so you can shoot back.

This theory wont work anymore with the addition of the teleport T's have. Let's say by chance you did check all the rooms and after u did an inno did indeed shift walk into a room and hide in a corner for a moment, if the T who killed ur friend didn't see him and teleported away then the person who saw your ally get killed would obviously have to ID the body and from your aspect you wouldn't know that.

 

[Tyron]

-snip-

See this is one of those case by case incidents. This personally would have been acceptable if it wasn’t for the rule. But without the rule you get all this he/she heard this etc and it leads to to much RDM or players getting lucky with the kills. Even by OPS own emission he didn’t have any sort of proof of any kind just some sounds and someone being shot which easily could have been an RDM but he got lucky. You were there to hear and find him ID the body within seconds so either he’s a T or a RDM’r if it wasn’t for the teleport feature

 

[Tyron]

This theory wont work anymore with the addition of the teleport T's have. Let's say by chance you did check all the rooms and after u did an inno did indeed shift walk into a room and hide in a corner for a moment, if the T who killed ur friend didn't see him and teleported away then the person who saw your ally get killed would obviously have to ID the body and from your aspect you wouldn't know that.

Exactly^^^ which is why we have the rule. Again in a perfect world scenario they could but it’s to much “guess work”

 

[RedDragonKnight]

This theory wont work anymore with the addition of the teleport T's have. Let's say by chance you did check all the rooms and after u did an inno did indeed shift walk into a room and hide in a corner for a moment, if the T who killed ur friend didn't see him and teleported away then the person who saw your ally get killed would obviously have to ID the body and from your aspect you wouldn't know that.

In the scenario I listed, the one who identified the body had to be right next to them when the killing shot was fired. A traitor would have to shoot only one of them, and the other (instead of a normal response of firing back) immediately ids the body not even a half second later. Running also never stopped, was 1 fluid motion.

The rule simply punishes those with better game sense.

 

[Tyron]

In the scenario I listed, the one who identified the body had to be right next to them when the killing shot was fired. A traitor would have to shoot only one of them, and the other (instead of a normal response of firing back) immediately ids the body not even a half second later. Running also never stopped, was 1 fluid motion.

The rule simply punishes those with better game sense.

But there is one of the issues. A lot of players silvers+ think they have good game sense etc and it leads to too much RDMs. Sure you have the one exception moments where it’s 100% but without an admin to be 100% focused on every player to verify it’s cause for so many issues

 

[mom]

While I personally would like to see a change in these rules, I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone kill off of sound/gun/logic and end up killing the wrong person. If there wasn't a specific rule to prevent people from doing so, then there'd be a big strain on enjoyment for players and admins.

 

[Hydra]

This will not be changed