Discussions on role of snipers

It's not fun to get shot with a sniper and then wait to go to the hospital or prison.

I have been shot with snipers by both police and criminals and honestly, it feels like I have been robbed of any sort of ability to play out the scenario especially when I don't even know there is a sniper around. It's just not fun at all for anyone but the person using it and I don't see (other than the money issues) why anyone would want to keep them. It's borderline power gaming by putting someone into a situation they cannot counter.
 
Alex said:
A: Shoot at AIR-1, causing absolute chaos and probably pissing the cops off IC enough to now open fire on everyone involved.
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To have the purchasing power to buy a sniper means you're a wealthy and/or seasoned crim. If I have a sniper rifle and my boys are making a run for it, you're damn right I'm going to take potshots at a helicopter.

If the police are that upset that the crims are trying everything to stop them, maybe they are in the wrong profession.

Alex said:
B: Run with the sniper trying to understandably avoid losing $500,000. This usually results in a shootout anyway, just more toxicity coming from the losing side.
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Toxicity is always going to happen regardless of whether a shootout happens or not. I get detained for blowing through a red light, I'm going to be mad and not cooperate.

OOC toxicity: who cares? I certainly don't. It's good RP.
 
OmgWtfNamesTaken said:
It's not fun to get shot with a sniper and then wait to go to the hospital or prison.

I have been shot with snipers by both police and criminals and honestly, it feels like I have been robbed of any sort of ability to play out the scenario especially when I don't even know there is a sniper around. It's just not fun at all for anyone but the person using it and I don't see (other than the money issues) why anyone would want to keep them. It's borderline power gaming by putting someone into a situation they cannot counter.
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I would say it's not fun to wait 9 minutes in a cell just to be thrown off to prison to wait 20 more minutes, but hey, it is what it is.
 
kuantum said:
To have the purchasing power to buy a sniper means you're a wealthy and/or seasoned crim. If I have a sniper rifle and my boys are making a run for it, you're damn right I'm going to take potshots at a helicopter.

If the police are that upset that the crims are trying everything to stop them, maybe they are in the wrong profession.


Toxicity is always going to happen regardless of whether a shootout happens or not. I get detained for blowing through a red light, I'm going to be mad and not cooperate.

OOC toxicity: who cares? I certainly don't. It's good RP.
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"To have the purchasing power to buy a sniper means you're a wealthy and/or seasoned crim." It takes an hour. That's not enough to be a "seasoned" criminal.

"OOC toxicity: who cares? I certainly don't. It's good RP." That's actually great. Unfortunately a lot of crims don't play for fun, more to win. Say, 60%. (not saying every cop plays for fun, some don't, but obviously I see it more with crims than cops because of my kind of playstyle.)
 
Alex said:
It takes an hour. That's not enough to be a "seasoned" criminal.
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An hour? That's really lucky drug farming or a very successful bank robbery.

Alex said:
Unfortunately a lot of crims don't play for fun, more to win. Say, 60%. (not saying every cop plays for fun, some don't, but obviously I see it more with crims than cops because of my kind of playstyle.)
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When you have a system that's high risk, high reward and losing means 30 minutes to an hour of RP out of your control, of course it's a matter of winning. I don't know what else you would expect.
 
Honestly, I think a better idea than just removing them completely or not doing anything is to make them not normally accessible. By this I mean it would not be able to be purchased by Crims, Cops wouldn't have it either. But, if someone has a good plan for an RP scene they can go to GTA Leadership and request one for the RP. That way, if GTA LE decides it's not a good idea for that scene they can say no, but snipers are still able to get used. Snipers, while they are easy to abuse, can provide some great roleplay. At a Bank Robbery, they say they have a sniper, the Sniper takes a shot and 'misses'. Alerting the cops, causing chaos but the cops also have a fair chance. If they still stand open at that point, then yeah, blast them. But people should have the possibility to use them for good RP.
 
I'm down for removing snipers but could we look to increase any other weapon to be able to midrange headshot, be that a pistol or an AR.
 
kuantum said:
I would say it's not fun to wait 9 minutes in a cell just to be thrown off to prison to wait 20 more minutes, but hey, it is what it is.
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The difference here is the crim willingly did something to warrant being arrested and has the ability to get away versus a person who gets taken out by a sniper and doesn't even know it's coming. It's about player agency more than anything.

I do think if they were nerfed to like 10/20 damage it would at least give the player the possibility of hiding/getting away.
 
3dsam1 said:
Honestly, I think a better idea than just removing them completely or not doing anything is to make them not normally accessible. By this I mean it would not be able to be purchased by Crims, Cops wouldn't have it either. But, if someone has a good plan for an RP scene they can go to GTA Leadership and request one for the RP. That way, if GTA LE decides it's not a good idea for that scene they can say no, but snipers are still able to get used. Snipers, while they are easy to abuse, can provide some great roleplay. At a Bank Robbery, they say they have a sniper, the Sniper takes a shot and 'misses'. Alerting the cops, causing chaos but the cops also have a fair chance. If they still stand open at that point, then yeah, blast them. But people should have the possibility to use them for good RP.
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An argument could be made that you can trigger the shots fired script with anything and do the same RP. Why contact LE when it isnt necessary, I did sniper RP like this back in the day with a pistol
 
I'm with kuantum on this one here's why,

Nerfing damage because it was being abused, by specific players should be a player punishment, not server punishment. Why would you limit everyone else's roleplay or even chance to roleplay because past scenes were bad?

When talking to @aidan about this he brings up the point that he's never seen a good roleplay scene involving snipers. I'm not gonna argue that I personally have however I've seen very low effort or non-roleplayed scenes with our fast-moving vehicles (Aggera/H2's). Why arent these being removed if this is the logic we're going to use.

This also continues to limit the already limited crim roleplay. When at the bi-weekly, I heard someone say they had used it for cleaning money. This would be a great example of now how someones RP is limited. They cannot trade their weapon, or use it to clean money. The economic aspect in my opinion is also ruined.

3dsam1 said:
But, if someone has a good plan for an RP scene they can go to GTA Leadership and request one for the RP.
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What about new players, who have a scene in mind, they have to ask "leadership" which they've never heard of to continue with their roleplay scene.


Alex said:
"To have the purchasing power to buy a sniper means you're a wealthy and/or seasoned crim." It takes an hour. That's not enough to be a "seasoned" criminal.
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I would be very surprised if someone can figure out where the gun store is properly, get 500+k dirty, within an hour.

Also how realistic or "serious" is it now that you are shot with a .50 cal and continue to run around because you didn't even notice it hit you.


I personally would have loved GTA LE, to ask the players what they think before they just go in with something. Just my opinion though.
 
They are going to be removed regardless of discussion, going forward we a moving towards avenues of other weapons and away from snipers.
 
great discussion people, see yall next time when supercars get a speed nerf
 
Ped said:
The rule we had/have on snipers is that the party being sniped must be aware of the sniper before the sniper shoots at its target. With this it means that the target is instantly going to move, instantly going to move for cover, instantly going to try and find the sniper to eliminate the threat. This makes sniper RP hard.

But, sniper RP SHOULD be hard as its a one shot one kill weapon, in a sense you have instantly taken that person out of the RP as they are now dead on the floor waiting for medics, or their friends to come and get them. (I get this is still RP but what do you enjoy more? being dead on the floor or in a shootout? Or helping someone up as a cop?)

I have only used a sniper once and it was to snipe a cop outside of a bank robbery (@DocRage i'm sorry lmao) during the scene the robbers in the bank had told me that the cops where made aware that there was a sniper, so I took the shot. Later after the scene I was told that the cop was not informed of a sniper at all.

In my time on the server (spending at least 8 months on crim and 8 separate months on cop) I have hardly ever seen a sniper benefit RP, the only time I have seen it benefit me is in my time as a cop, when I have seen others use a sniper to eliminate a target, but that brings another argument up about cops having easy access to weapons like snipers whereas criminals do not. (although the cops do have to be trained to use the sniper).

In conclusion I honestly don't know where I stand on the whole sniper RP thing. It could work but I've never seen it work and have both parties be happy after the scene. (I'm sure there is at least 1 scenario where this has happened).


Coulda told me this before I made a marksman training for the PD /e shrug
(this is a joke dont ban me)
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With the implementation of changing some unused guns to semi auto marksman training is still going to be needed.
 
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OmgWtfNamesTaken said:
It's not fun to get shot with a sniper and then wait to go to the hospital or prison.

I have been shot with snipers by both police and criminals and honestly, it feels like I have been robbed of any sort of ability to play out the scenario especially when I don't even know there is a sniper around. It's just not fun at all for anyone but the person using it and I don't see (other than the money issues) why anyone would want to keep them. It's borderline power gaming by putting someone into a situation they cannot counter.
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You rock. Well said.
 
Sniper rifles are anti-roleplay at their core.

This isn't about cops vs criminals, and steering it in that direction misses the point.
 
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Instead, let's talk about how we can replace snipers in the roleplay that dictated their use.
binocularscriptwhen
 
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