Paramedics and Other Issues

[PapaGinger]

I just noticed that ruling was changed for Paramedics, to prevent them from selling to people as it is seen as "corruption." Like I have said with cop and crim rulings, there are far too many rules stacked up to prevent roleplay. I can understand limiting police corruption to prevent mass corruption that would likely ruin people's fun, but there were other rules that I talked about and others talked about (Like the discussion had in Jeremy Duck's post) where many people agreed that rules needed to change, however, nothing appears to have come from those conversations. In a matter of minutes, this new Paramedic rule gets plastered to the rule page, stacking up the rules in the server that prevent roleplay. It becomes more and more difficult for LE to say that lines aren't drawn and sides aren't chosen, this is not the first time that rules and metas have been changed to "nerf" civs/crim and bolster the police. I would like some feedback on this one as some of my previous posts have seemingly been ignored.

 

[Chicken Noodle Soup]

The issue with allowing corruption in ES comes down to the resources you have access to as an emergency services. For example, police have access to an armory with Virtually unlimited guns, an evidence locker with every confiscated good ever taken from a criminal. I would guess that paramedics are the same way in terms of having an unlimited amount of medical supplies. if corruption was allowed, what would stop people from just making unlimited money by selling medical supplies, or police weapons. We'd have mass corruption and the economy would be inflated. In a perfect world corruption would be combatted in character, but there's no in character way to track who takes out supplies, or weapons. In the real world, all these items would be logged and documented, and if command noticed them going missing they could look into it, but there's no way of doing that in an in character fashion. I get where you're coming from, however, I disagree with the fact that corruption should be allowed from both police and medics as it would lead to more issues, and simply wouldn't be worth it for the small amount of rp it creates.

 

[PapaGinger]

The issue with allowing corruption in ES comes down to the resources you have access to as an emergency services. For example, police have access to an armory with Virtually unlimited guns, an evidence locker with every confiscated good ever taken from a criminal. I would guess that paramedics are the same way in terms of having an unlimited amount of medical supplies. if corruption was allowed, what would stop people from just making unlimited money by selling medical supplies, or police weapons. We'd have mass corruption and the economy would be inflated. In a perfect world corruption would be combatted in character, but there's no in character way to track who takes out supplies, or weapons. In the real world, all these items would be logged and documented, and if command noticed them going missing they could look into it, but there's no way of doing that in an in character fashion. I get where you're coming from, however, I disagree with the fact that corruption should be allowed from both police and medics as it would lead to more issues, and simply wouldn't be worth it for the small amount of rp it creates.

I don't see how handing out medical supplies to civilians is even relatively corrupt. Especially when cops have requested and continue to request medical supplies from paramedics and it doesn't appear to be an issue. It just seems that LE doesn't want civs to be able to purchase medical supplies. In this specific instance, it would be bandages and arm braces, something that could be usable in the lull of combat, especially with the crazy arm damage. I have seen cops use these items in general and also in shootouts, how is it not corruption for PD to get these items but suddenly corruption for civs to have them.

 

[PapaGinger]

I would guess that paramedics are the same way in terms of having an unlimited amount of medical supplies. if corruption was allowed, what would stop people from just making unlimited money by selling medical supplies, or police weapons. We'd have mass corruption and the economy would be inflated.

I always hear this stuff about preserving the economy, but so what if paramedics can make decent money selling medical supplies? The economy we have right now is a grind fest for old players and incredibly boring and not very intuitive for new players. If paramedics have money, guess where that goes? To houses, cars, food, player-owned businesses, etc. we have a server where people have millions of dollars and nothing worthwhile to spend it on. There is also this crazy idea of raising the prices to buy the med items, maybe increasing the price of nancy to make being a medic more viable? There are options besides shutting shit down and preventing anything from happening. Would selling med supplies be crazy good RP, not always, but it's just another thing medics can't do, another income avenue or roleplay avenue cut off. This may not be the most controversial of takes but I don't think the economy in the server is even close to perfect, and the "inflation" you were talking about has already been happening, houses increase in price, cars, and weapons are priced all over the place, and the handful of jobs available don't necessarily make the economy very satisfying. So if someone can make good money while RPing how they want to RP then why on Earth would that be shut down, what sacred balance must be kept that already hasn't been broken?

 

[iLLusion99]

The issue with allowing corruption in ES comes down to the resources you have access to as an emergency services. For example, police have access to an armory with Virtually unlimited guns, an evidence locker with every confiscated good ever taken from a criminal. I would guess that paramedics are the same way in terms of having an unlimited amount of medical supplies. if corruption was allowed, what would stop people from just making unlimited money by selling medical supplies, or police weapons. We'd have mass corruption and the economy would be inflated. In a perfect world corruption would be combatted in character, but there's no in character way to track who takes out supplies, or weapons. In the real world, all these items would be logged and documented, and if command noticed them going missing they could look into it, but there's no way of doing that in an in character fashion. I get where you're coming from, however, I disagree with the fact that corruption should be allowed from both police and medics as it would lead to more issues, and simply wouldn't be worth it for the small amount of rp it creates.

Couldn't have said it better myself, however, I have a few things to add. If we allow EMS to be "corrupt" and sell endless supplies for personal gain, we basically remove the only job that EMS staff have. If every time someone was injured they just opened their trunk and grabbed the medical supplies they need (keep in mind that in RP 90% of our characters have 0 medical experience) there would be no need or person calling EMS. This has nothing to do with a "Crim v Cop" standpoint and everything to do with a RP for EMS standpoint.

Also, just to touch on the "Crim v Cop" thing and how "LE is Cop sided" , myself and around 6-7 other members of LE are "crim mains", if what you think is true then tell me why would we make such a huge bias against our own characters? Our decisions are made to benefit the server as a whole and to give purpose to the jobs we offer, we DONT pick sides.

 

[Rekty]

Couldn't have said it better myself, however, I have a few things to add. If we allow EMS to be "corrupt" and sell endless supplies for personal gain, we basically remove the only job that EMS staff have. If every time someone was injured they just opened their trunk and grabbed the medical supplies they need (keep in mind that in RP 90% of our characters have 0 medical experience) there would be no need or person calling EMS. This has nothing to do with a "Crim v Cop" standpoint and everything to do with a RP for EMS standpoint.

Also, just to touch on the "Crim v Cop" thing and how "LE is Cop sided" , myself and around 6-7 other members of LE are "crim mains", if what you think is true then tell me why would we make such a huge bias against our own characters? Our decisions are made to benefit the server as a whole and to give purpose to the jobs we offer, we DONT pick sides.

just make arm braces publically available then if youre worried about people not going to the hospital.
ez fix medics still get rp but crims dont have to feel like theyre playing tarkov when they get hit in the arm once

 

[Chicken Noodle Soup]

Realistically, if you put an arm brace on, you wouldn’t be able to use that arm at all, getting various debuffs from being injured is partially meant to prolong firefights. Stay behind cover so that you don’t get shot, think before getting in firefights and play for tactical advantage or go for the high ground, if you don’t get hit in the arm, your aim doesn’t get messed up, so play out gunfights smart so you don’t get hit. The only medical items I can ever being sold by medics would be bandages (which only bring up your overall health) and tourniquets, if they were added which would stop bleeding. Basic medical supplies that wouldn’t take away from having to see a medic, but you guys also have meth, which does the same thing as bandages. Coming from an era where the server and LE team was undoubtedly very strongly cop sided, I disagree with the claim that the server or LE team as it stands now are cop biased. As Illusion said, the majority of LE are Crim/civ mains. I do agree that cops have a slight advantage over civilians given the rule of 8 vs the rule of 4 but realistically, the cops are Always going to have a slight advantage, part of that being realism, and part of that being to increase thoughtful criminal rp. Instead of running and gunning down cops, you have to think out your crime and have a plan going into it. I find it be fairly balanced. Both civs and cops can have body armor, civs can have fully auto weapons, cops can’t, civs also have access to cocaine, which makes you run faster, cops don’t. The way the server is laid out right now is a very good balance between cops and civs

 

[Rekty]

Realistically, if you put an arm brace on, you wouldn’t be able to use that arm at all, getting various debuffs from being injured is partially meant to prolong firefights. Stay behind cover so that you don’t get shot, think before getting in firefights and play for tactical advantage or go for the high ground, if you don’t get hit in the arm, your aim doesn’t get messed up, so play out gunfights smart so you don’t get hit. The only medical items I can ever being sold by medics would be bandages (which only bring up your overall health) and tourniquets, if they were added which would stop bleeding. Basic medical supplies that wouldn’t take away from having to see a medic, but you guys also have meth, which does the same thing as bandages. Coming from an era where the server and LE team was undoubtedly very strongly cop sided, I disagree with the claim that the server or LE team as it stands now are cop biased. As Illusion said, the majority of LE are Crim/civ mains. I do agree that cops have a slight advantage over civilians given the rule of 8 vs the rule of 4 but realistically, the cops are Always going to have a slight advantage, part of that being realism, and part of that being to increase thoughtful criminal rp. Instead of running and gunning down cops, you have to think out your crime and have a plan going into it. I find it be fairly balanced. Both civs and cops can have body armor, civs can have fully auto weapons, cops can’t, civs also have access to cocaine, which makes you run faster, cops don’t. The way the server is laid out right now is a very good balance between cops and civs

at one of our recent shootouts the police hard arm braces and there might (not 100% sure of this) have been a pocket medic on scene, doesnt seem balanced.
this isnt tarkov gunfights dont need to be that aids

Bandages also dont give you an aids effect for 15 seconds or make you animation locked like meth does.
the full auto weapons are worse than the semi auto ar anyway.

 

[RipplyTiger151]

Why is there always a want to have corrupted public safety? While I have a disconnect right now and can't speak on much, there was always a shortage of good paramedics and sometimes cops. Instead of wanting to be corrupt and putting all your time and effort into making posts like these, why not put all that effort into creating a strong and professional agency?

I also see that there is a continuance of claims of LEO bias from the leadership team. From the time I was Community Manager and was part of the initial decision making to create these types of policies against corruption, I can say CNS hit the nail on the head. Cops and medics have a scary amount of supplies and stuff they have access to. If there is someone who uses that to their advantage, it could break the economy hard.

 

[Ped]

I don't see how handing out medical supplies to civilians is even relatively corrupt. Especially when cops have requested and continue to request medical supplies from paramedics and it doesn't appear to be an issue. It just seems that LE doesn't want civs to be able to purchase medical supplies. In this specific instance, it would be bandages and arm braces, something that could be usable in the lull of combat, especially with the crazy arm damage. I have seen cops use these items in general and also in shootouts, how is it not corruption for PD to get these items but suddenly corruption for civs to have them.

if paramedics were to sell medical supplies to civilians paramedics would become useless - instead of being paramedic they would become a pharmacy - nobody is going to call for paramedics if they can just heal themselves and restock their house inventory once a month

I don't play very often nowadays so please take what I say with a grain of salt <3

 

[PapaGinger]

if paramedics were to sell medical supplies to civilians paramedics would become useless - instead of being paramedic they would become a pharmacy - nobody is going to call for paramedics if they can just heal themselves and restock their house inventory once a month

I don't play very often nowadays so please take what I say with a grain of salt <3

For some reason, people can't think about the fact that the Chief can still decide what gets sold who is allowed to sell. If you want there to be rules then let the head of the paramedics decide, don't make it a "banable offense" lmao

 

[PapaGinger]

Why is there always a want to have corrupted public safety? While I have a disconnect right now and can't speak on much, there was always a shortage of good paramedics and sometimes cops. Instead of wanting to be corrupt and putting all your time and effort into making posts like these, why not put all that effort into creating a strong and professional agency?

I also see that there is a continuance of claims of LEO bias from the leadership team. From the time I was Community Manager and was part of the initial decision making to create these types of policies against corruption, I can say CNS hit the nail on the head. Cops and medics have a scary amount of supplies and stuff they have access to. If there is someone who uses that to their advantage, it could break the economy hard.

It's not corruption to sell supplies, selling arm braces to help balance out the broken arm damage system isn't corruption... cops literally request supplies and get them, but crims can't? It's literally ass, and I will continuously stand by what I said about sides being chosen, whether willingly or without meaning to be. And like I just said, why is the economy so sacred, what balance is there that must be kept, a car sells for 500k over import, a house the size of a castle selling for 2 million... come on... LE at this point is just not listening and just sticking to some nonsensical story of crims selling the supplies they get. I would get into how obviously self-serving many of the members of the LE team are but it would serve no purpose, they simply won't let it happen because it might benefit people they don't like.

 

[PapaGinger]

Realistically, if you put an arm brace on, you wouldn’t be able to use that arm at all, getting various debuffs from being injured is partially meant to prolong firefights. Stay behind cover so that you don’t get shot, think before getting in firefights and play for tactical advantage or go for the high ground, if you don’t get hit in the arm, your aim doesn’t get messed up, so play out gunfights smart so you don’t get hit. The only medical items I can ever being sold by medics would be bandages (which only bring up your overall health) and tourniquets, if they were added which would stop bleeding. Basic medical supplies that wouldn’t take away from having to see a medic, but you guys also have meth, which does the same thing as bandages. Coming from an era where the server and LE team was undoubtedly very strongly cop sided, I disagree with the claim that the server or LE team as it stands now are cop biased. As Illusion said, the majority of LE are Crim/civ mains. I do agree that cops have a slight advantage over civilians given the rule of 8 vs the rule of 4 but realistically, the cops are Always going to have a slight advantage, part of that being realism, and part of that being to increase thoughtful criminal rp. Instead of running and gunning down cops, you have to think out your crime and have a plan going into it. I find it be fairly balanced. Both civs and cops can have body armor, civs can have fully auto weapons, cops can’t, civs also have access to cocaine, which makes you run faster, cops don’t. The way the server is laid out right now is a very good balance between cops and civs

The cops have 8 people, crims have coke that takes 15 seconds to do, cops have the best gun in the game, crims have the AK which can't be used at any sort of range full auto... what balance is there? What are you referring to? Have you ever used any of the weapons available to crims... if you did I feel that you would have a different opinion.

 

[Legend]

I thought this discussion was about medical roleplay?

 

[Rekty]

I thought this discussion was about medical roleplay?

Paramedics and Other Issues​

 

[Chicken Noodle Soup]

I feel like you’re misunderstanding the corruption rule, it’s not specifically making selling medical supplies a bannable offense, the chief still has the ability to make that call, it just makes going against that call against the rules. Police have access to request medical supplies so they can render first aid to people, and even so, I believe the only supplies police has access to are bandages and medkits. Economy balance is very important, if everyone has too much money, everybody gets bored and stops playing. If the server’s too grindy, everybody gets burnt out and stops playing. Before the reset, everyone was multi-millionaire’s and it led to the server partially dying out, and right after the reset there weren’t many jobs available and the server was super grindy, which led to a reduction in players. It may not seem like it, but having a balanced economy is one of the most important parts of having an economy based server, it can make or break a server. Yeah coke takes 15 seconds to do, but it boosts your stamina and speed, while the police don’t have anything to boost stamina or speed, yes, the police have the best weapon in the game, however, they are severely limited in when, how, and why they can use it. And yes, I have used the guns available to crims, I play both Crim and cop, more so on the Crim side recently and I haven't noticed any of the issues you’re talking about. Moreover, shooting isn’t the answer to everything, shooting at police without a plan is more often than not going to get you killed, in a lot of the crimes I’ve committed, I didn’t even have a gun, but still made it out without getting caught. Like I said, cops do have a slight advantage, and they most likely always will, but I disagree with the fact that it’s completely unbalanced in favor of the police. There have been many times where I’ve gotten laid out as a cop by a well organized group of criminals, there’s been many times where I’ve gotten away as a Crim, and there’s been times where I’ve gotten laid out by the cops on Crim. I feel as though the issue isn’t “cop vs Crim” rather, the way you rp and the scenarios you get into. Shooting your way out of a situation with the cops shouldn’t be a whim of the moment thing, you should go into it with a plan, solid weapons, and armor. If you’re running and gunning without a solid plan, be prepared to get shot back. Look at bodycam footage of actual police shootings, a vast majority end up with the subject on the ground because they decided to pull a gun and start shooting with no real plan.

 

[IsThisDaniel]

Hello- I am late to this conversation- But it is I! The one whom suggested, and applied to the SOP's that it was not welcome to sell these items.

But yes- everyone above, very much confirmed what my thought process very much was. I understand why you believe it may be stopping roleplay because of the fact that medics cant sell these things to anyone.

But you really need to look on the other end of the spectrum. GOOD, medical roleplay is something the city has been missing for arguably a very long time, and the items that are not to be sold are a key stepping stone to creating these medical scenes. And if we was to sell all these items to the civilians, we would be in the same exact position.
Medics would come in > Sell these items > Noone would need medics except to buy these items. > There is no real, good medical roleplay because everyone is using the items > Medics quit. And you stop seeing medics again.

This Was put into place, because the intent is to only bring people on who actually want to do the medical roleplay, and have fun doing so, the people who will take the medical department, and there job within the SAFR a little more seriously. And if we openly sold the key items that let us do our job, then what is the point of having the job at all- might as well just have a store everyone can access.

Another thing i read was about officers being able to have free access to these medical supplies.
This is FALSE When it comes to providing these medical supplies , we do not sell or provide them to cops either. The only way a cop Should be treated, especially within a scene is by a medic, and if no medic's are present, the use of a medkit- and a long trip to nancy. Downed cops treated by medics do not re enter that scene, just because they have been treated, its not like god touched them and they wasn't just sprayed down with bullets 10 minutes ago. because we are both government units, we work together.

The choice was made primarily based on what i believed would keep EMS want to be involved, active and want to come on duty from a roleplay standpoint. And limiting the small amount of roleplay of selling these supplies, opens up a door for hours of fun, medical themed roleplay of different kinds for both parties involved.

As well as how hugely allowing something like that effects the economy.
I wont name name's but Sammy has been offered crazy numbers like 50k+ for arm braces, and has firmly turned them down.


---Note this was written at 4am so im sorry if you struggled to read this---

 

[Sahaquiel]

"I always hear this stuff about preserving the economy, but so what if paramedics can make decent money selling medical supplies?"

They can make money by selling the supplies: in the form of medical treatment when someone comes to the hospital in need of treatment the proper medical supplies are used on a person and they can make an invoice.

"There is also this crazy idea of raising the prices to buy the med items, maybe increasing the price of Nancy to make being a medic more viable?"

Can you please suggest an incentive to get people to roleplay with a medic over coming in and getting a patch up from the nurse?

"there might (not 100% sure of this) have been a pocket medic on scene"

If this ever happens please notify Sammy or I. This is not okay. Ever. There should never be medics on an active shootout scene and there should never be "pocket medics". We have terminated employment on our old team for this in the past. Medics should be neutral and should not be favoring any establishment to be giving "pocket heals".

Pillbox Medical Center and subsequent other medical centers are not medical supply stores. The medical supplies are implemented specifically for the skelly system so EMS can have an active role in the city. Skelly system has always had five items to provide first aid and fill HP. Those ARE the medical service items. Why should they have to sell items that would be removing roleplay from the medical folks? Do you really not want us to be around to render aid to those in need so you can do it for yourself? Because that's all I'm hearing. You're only giving reasons so you do not have to come into the medical center.

Medical RP is not a role that is done for personal gain. The role is more geared towards people who want to play the role to help others and facilitate others' roleplay. We don't get a lot of roleplay in return at times and what I'm hearing from you is you want to take more of what little we have available to us.

If you want to play a criminal, play a criminal. Your criminal does not have to be a part of every single job establishment in the city. If you want make a med character and sell the stuff illegally, go for it. But you're also going to have consequences to face since the rules have been laid down.

And if you feel like stealing medical supplies to resell is good RP, please for the love of everything don't come near me in game, that type of roleplay is brain-meltingly dull.

Edit: Also, value your character's lives a little more and you wouldn't need the medical supplies as often. Stop crashing the cars, stop shooting people and getting shot for your ego and actually think out what you're doing instead of simple bang bang you're dead stuff. We are all only capable of hindering our own roleplay.

 

[Rekty]

Edit: Also, value your character's lives a little more and you wouldn't need the medical supplies as often. Stop crashing the cars, stop shooting people and getting shot for your ego and actually think out what you're doing instead of simple bang bang you're dead stuff. We are all only capable of hindering our own roleplay.

This doesnt really apply when you can get skeleton damage from literally everything, like jumping which makes u fall sometimes and can **** up half your skeleton

 

[Chicken Noodle Soup]

This doesnt really apply when you can get skeleton damage from literally everything, like jumping which makes u fall sometimes and can **** up half your skeleton

So instead of medics being able to sell supplies, why not make a suggestion for the damage system to be tweaked slightly so you don’t get as injured for minor things like falling on your face.