Counter-Strike Delivered Counter strike source early round suggestion.

[11b-ret firstblood]

Hello,

When the css server is in it's early period where it's sub 12 players there's an extreme off-balance in the favor of terrorists.

There are 5 avenues between both planting sites: Long A, short A, tunnels to B, mid to B, and mid to A.

For CT with both planting sites in play, they need a minimum of 4 players to cover the basic needs of defense. But should they only have one person at each avenue, it only requires one T to escort the bomb for a nearly guaranteed round win. Having a double attackers to defenders ratio in early games is akin to a coordinated rush when servers are full and very hard to coordinate a defensive rotate since the other CTs are completely blocked off from each other.

Normally this isn't an issue as most people will do the honorable thing and refrain from planting at B until server numbers are higher. Recently, the last few times I've played around noon EST there has been one player who doesn't care about playing and whether or not anyone else is having any fun; he simply wants to win the round no matter what he has to take advantage of. In the 20 minutes I played, at least 8 CT players joined for a few minutes, realized they couldn't defend, complained about it for a few rounds and left. When I asked them not to plant at B until 4 more players were on I received pushback from this player and they planted at B every round, or tested B's defenses before going to short since they knew we couldn't successfully defend more than 1 site.

What I'm suggesting is that we make this server fair and balanced so that numbers can build up rather than staying empty until the evening rush kicks in.

A w/k/b for a b plant before 12 players are active would do wonders for early players.

 

[sopheyy]

this whole post just sounds like a skill issue tbh. unless the Ts have more people (4v2, 5v3, etc) then it shouldn't favor the Ts unless you can't hit your shots - in which case, you should go DM.

 

[GamingByTheMinute]

this whole post just sounds like a skill issue tbh. unless the Ts have more people (4v2, 5v3, etc) then it shouldn't favor the Ts unless you can't hit your shots - in which case, you should go DM.

I haven't seen you in a hot minute Sopheyy. How are you and Rich doing?

 

[11b-ret firstblood]

this whole post just sounds like a skill issue tbh. unless the Ts have more people (4v2, 5v3, etc) then it shouldn't favor the Ts unless you can't hit your shots - in which case, you should go DM.

The TS always have more players in early round because they're not having to defend 5 avenues with 3 people and it's always easier to plant and hold.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen you during early rounds. Especially not on CT. I could be mistaken.

Oh and btw having 20 noobs playing jumpstarts the server filling more quickly. I wasn't aware that edge only wanted highly skilled players. I thought this was a welcoming community. Dunno why there'd be weird opinionated pushback on attempting to benefit the server's health.

 

[sopheyy]

The TS always have more players in early round because they're not having to defend 5 avenues with 3 people and it's always easier to plant and hold.

isn't it just a question of balancing the teams then? making sure the teams are always as even as possible, and if there is an uneven number, then possibly having a T automatically switched to CT?

a normal game on dust2 is 5v5 and you can hold every "avenue" just fine. if you are to lose a player or two in the early round - sure, it becomes more difficult to defend the sites, but definitely not impossible. additionally, if they take a few kills with them to the grave it should be no issue.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen you during early rounds. Especially not on CT. I could be mistaken.

i dont play source anymore. so no, you havent seen me. i think ever.

Oh and btw having 20 noobs playing jumpstarts the server filling more quickly. I wasn't aware that edge only wanted highly skilled players. I thought this was a welcoming community.

not saying it doesn't jumpstart the server. im just saying instead of making the game easier, why not learn to actually play it?

 

[Architect of Life]

This feels arbitrary and unnecessary.
It seems to me that someone is tryharding and you want a way to adjust their playstyle.
Why not adapt and beat their strategy, make them change by superior play?

People can plan around B site. They can stack it. They can modify their defense.
If it feels unfair you and others should adjust your approach, not pursue another rule to protect a certain playstyle.
There is no evidence that you couldn't crush their strategy by adjusting yours.

 

[Lucas15]

I don't really think it's necessary. It puts more strain on admins when in reality it's not causing much of an issue. Also, as you said yourself, the server fills up past this threshold fairly quickly once a few people start playing.

 

[11b-ret firstblood]

There is no evidence that you couldn't crush their strategy by adjusting yours.

Is this from personal experience on the CSS server? CTs objective is to defend bomb sites. Not trying to adjust anyone's play style, just trying to even up early rounds so that we can get to a point where the server has enough players for substantive rounds.

I don't really think it's necessary. It puts more strain on admins when in reality it's not causing much of an issue. Also, as you said yourself, the server fills up past this threshold fairly quickly once a few people start playing.

Admins aren't required to enforce rules as you're well aware. Play the game first, admin second. The server does absolutely not fill up quickly when players leave after 3 rounds because they absolutely can't defend 5 avenues with 3 players. Today I had players on T willing to have some honor and leave B alone until the 12/5v5 suggestion was met. It quickly gained 15, 20 players.. MUCH earlier than if CT was nullified by having to stretch too thin to do anything other than alert team mates about where their current loss was coming from.

The reason I suggested this rule was the game I had played we hadn't reached 10 players by the time I left at 1400 EST. Today we had 20 by 1230. The noobs stayed since there was a chance to win and it seeded the server. When I get on I see my friends list playing other servers because there's higher numbers and it's more fun. 4 of 4 friends on my list had joined our server after it reached about 15 players yet the other day there were 3 online that didn't give us a second thought because of the continuous low player count.

Having a rule to cite would allow players and admin to ensure a fair early round in order to keep players on CT, and to keep players in the server to seed substantive rounds.

 

[MS]

On Jailbreak we usually have maps that are one sided if the server has relatively low population. The CT(s) have it tough with a lot of potential rebellers. But we don’t tell the prisoners not to rebel, it’s part of the game. It may not be fair or fun for the CTs, but they can try to adapt, try to learn the map, try to get good, or give up and join the Ts.

“Hey stop winning it’s unfair” just seems like a whiny complaint when the teams are equal. Wouldn’t this also create a similar issue but for the Ts? CTs don’t usually know what bombsite the Ts will go to (cause it’s part of the game/balance). If we limit it to 1 site, they can always stack the single site. Wouldnt it be funny if we told CTs they can only go long since it’s unfair for the Ts because we told them they can only go A.

This should come down to skill. If it doesn’t, then yes you have a problem. But I think you’re just bad

 

[MS]

Looks like this was implemented. Marking as delivered.