jb_divinity feedback

[Blutzer]

Here to discuss our new amazing map jb_divinity. First off, the games on this map are incredible. The extreme climb, bhop, random climb, and surf are all top tier games from some of our brightest mapmakers (love you guys Zacc and mouse). The problem I'm seeing is the main cell area is extremely T sided allowing too many ways for Ts to escape. Consider this screenshot for the following analysis:

The main cell area requires CTs to keep extremely close attention on these 6 locations. Lets go through them one by one:

1: This vending machine teleporter goes to the UMP secret by surf. Seems fair enough because the Ts have to gamble by jumping onto the ledge and running to it.... although this isnt exactly true. Observe: https://streamable.com/18uadq I'm not even good at air-strafing and this is too easy. We can compare this to the vending tp on jb_vipinthemix where the Ts actually have to risk 2-3 bhops to tp.

2 and 3: Getting up here allows access to a CZ75 and eventually an AWP. If the CTs dont spot Ts making this jump, or if the CT cant kill them in immediately, the T can hide and wait for CTs to pursue by jumping along the beams behind me. This is most comparable to the scout secret tp on jb_america.

4: This hallway be smoked off and easily accessed by the right-most cells. Warden needs to assign a guard to be down this hallway at the start of every round.

5 and 6: This wall breaks relatively easily and leads directly to armory. Ts take the main door (6), take a random tp anywhere on the map, or sit in CT spawn and wait for guards to pursue behind them through 5. On top of this, if Ts win cell games, they can also be tp'd to armory. There is a 2nd wall that CTs can hear breaking, but guards cant pursue through 6 because the doors only open from the inside. Because of this, CTs must watch 5 and 6 both at all times.

Other noteworthy mentions:

• Some (or most) CTs are stuck with SMGs / Galil / Scout since the longjumps in armory is a bit too hard for average players
• Winning cell game can randomly teleport Ts anywhere on the map where various guns are scattered, most commonly the scout outside extreme climb

I love the challenge that these new maps bring, but this map seems particularly difficult without at LEAST 8+ guards that have incredible aim. We played this earlier today and I believe we went 0-10 without playing a single map game. Over the next few months, I'll be interested to see how the CTs learn to contain all of this.

 

[max]

that streamable link made me cry

 

[Shower]

As shown in my points below we have different perspectives on jb_divinity but before this I would like to make it clear I do see this as a T sided map but that does not make it overpowered or unplayable.

to engage with some easy points,

• [area 3] Doesn't count because it's just [area 2].
• [area 4] It is just a hallway somewhat close to cells but still easily watchable from many safe angles for Ct's. Plenty of new maps have a learning curve for Ct's to learn about how/where to watch and this is a very easy solve.
• [area 5] No players can spawn in that cell and it takes a similar amount as vip while being much more open. (I could see this vent getting a hp buff of around one or two hits more)

The rest are likely to have some disagreements but I would say,

• [area 1] This requires a good deal of luck and execution to pull off, firstly its a 1/14 chance of spawning in that cell then you have to hit a perf for the best chance of survival. I would say this is somewhat comparable to clouds ump. If compared to vip I would argue that this maps jump is easier to defend against because on vip with ~2 perfs and a good nade teammate, you can do the vip tp before guards are out of armory to defend. (this point about vip is mostly moot since I still feel clouds ump is a more apt comparison)
• [area 2] While defending from the cz takes some skill at duck hunt, there is no way a T will get the awp if the Ct's clear cells/ count the T's. This is compounded by the fact that Ct's are already incentivized to tp above giving them a clear view of T's attempting to jump across because of the amazing point of view they get from being up there. Similar to being on top of high dive on other maps
• [area 6] pursuing via armory door is just not fun, if allowed it makes it way to easy to just ruin rebel's round and should be prevented before the T's get into armory via vents not just after you get to run through a door with zero skill checks and spray everyone inside.

"Some (or most) CTs are stuck with SMGs / Galil / Scout since the long jumps in armory is a bit too hard for average players"

The guns given to Ct's who cant even hit a 226 can still easily kill any T since they don't get armor, it wont make a difference weather they are using a AK or Galil (there doesn't seem to be a single sight line on this map you would not be able to one shot headshot an unarmored T). Keep in mind this 226 is under the requirement of what a warden needs to demonstrate for a long jump to be considered a map game. So I think it should be reasonable that the Ct's enforcing that game should have to hit it​

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"Winning cell game can randomly teleport Ts anywhere on the map where various guns are scattered, most commonly the scout outside extreme climb"

Obviously many maps have a form of vents/tp's I don't think this is much different from any other map​

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"we went 0-10 without playing a single map"

This can be true on many maps in the rotation I think this is only exacerbated by the fact it's a new map. Dust was a much crazier when multiple T's were online who could hit the bomb cells secret. and obviously fan favorites like vip and quake and be like this as well.​

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I think before reforming the design of the map, Ct's should be allowed to create and evolve the meta around how to control the T's and the routes that give the least amount of opportunities to rebel. While the T's try to pick up on patterns of mistakes and opportunities given to them by less than perfect Ct gameplay.

TL;DR: Don't change the map until players have learned it and how to counter each other.

 

[Nekkk]

Would be a good map if it was french

 

[2020Vision]

Bumping up. This map is unplayable. please do the things blutzer is saying cause this map gonna be good but cant be good if unplayable! #mousebestmapmaker

 

[Blutzer]

Update: We just successfully played 1 game after giving out 6 STs! W MAP!

 

[Sh1ro]

My thoughts
1. Vending machine is all good! It is all about aim, dont go ct if you cant aim

2. Should be patched with a jump that is more difficult to make.

4/5. These ones are basically the same spot, there is a hallway that is just a hallway.
And we have the breakable wall, just watch it.

6. We dont need to do anything here because CT`s are always standing close to that door.

If i remember correctly there is 3 TP`s in cellgames? Maybe patch it down to two TP`s.

Yes there has to be atleast 8+ CT`s if we are talking 20+ T`s.

Some small fixes that would take 20 min time and the map would be balanced.

All around a W map with great games, especially the new fishing game!

Sh1ro W snus

 

[wolken]

I say just put a wall that faces cells near vending machine so you cant strafe outta cells to the TP. That would keep it as a secret, but add risk to jumping up to it. Shooting someone mid-air as they are falling in CS isn't easy since you have to compensate for recoil.

 

[wolken]

Or even add a small wall near the vending machine so you are forced to strafe more efficiently to make it farther.

Edit: But also big W map for making cell TPs 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to complete the mini-game rather than randomly

 

[Nekkk]

Unfortunately, the cell area is way too much T-sided...
The rest of the map looks clean but it's hard to even make a first game. (I would recommend to add names in front of the games and even a map on the walls to indicate where the games are.

Perhaps, with time, CT's would be able to better understand the map and it would be easier to handle a round.

For the moment, it's almost unplayable and not fun at all even if it can be a good map to play on!

 

[Blutzer]

As a warden, the most diminishing thing is having a new map with a bunch of fun games but the round is jover within 30 seconds of the cells opening. This happens all the time with SCP, but SCP is actually playable with a good warden who can maneuver their guards properly. Divinity just isnt playable unless the 4-8 people that escape at the start of the round take ST.

 

[ScoutsGoneWild]

This is too easy, needs a wall like wolken said

 

[Blutzer]

^ This was from the middle cell too, not even the top like I showed in my clip https://streamable.com/18uadq

 

[p90godx]

the tower of hell mini game is pretty sick

 

[vvs]

Other noteworthy mentions:

• Some (or most) CTs are stuck with SMGs / Galil / Scout since the longjumps in armory is a bit too hard for average players

As most people don’t know what binding is and most jailbreak players probably don’t have a lj bind, You can no bind no strafe the 224 to get an ak without perfect edge. The easiest way is all you need to do is 1 strafe and you can get an AK.

It is the same exact jump as hard jump on quake, only difference is quake has elevation. You can also no bind no strafe quake hard jump.

As for the 232 for the awp You can no bind wall strafe it with pretty bad edge.

Only bad part about the map is the vending machine being 2 close to cells other wise I like the map!