Offical Discussion about Turbine

[GardenGroveVW]

Please give us feedback about Turbine.

All other posts will be deleted.


(Post something other then CHANGE IT BACK)

 

[Tattis]

Thank you for doing this GardenGroveVW. I really think it'll reflect well on our community if there's someplace people can be directed to to give feedback. Even if it doesn't guarantee change, I think allowing people to express their opinions will probably allow cooler heads to prevail in the long run as it'll allow them to have a better understanding of why changes occur.

And, to the people who are going to post in this thread, please, please remain civil, otherwise we might not see threads like this in the future.

 

[Stauf1186]

Well, as I've said in a previous thread, it messes with class and game dynamics with instant respawn.

Soldiers (like myself) become spam happy and suicidal. Same goes to Demomen (the suicidal part).

Snipers become nearly worthless against a rush. One kill, another replaces him and the wave is now closer.

Spies gain power since people aren't going to be as worried about backstabs since there's no real penalty for death.

Engineers become less valuable since spamming enemies make it difficult to have a proper defense set up.

Scouts become more frequent since the spawn timer is not there to limit them (the rate at which they die and the rate at which they can get right back into things become much, much closer).

Turbine doesn't seem very suited to instant spawning. I don't know quite how to explain it, but the map just feels different when I pop right back two seconds later.

Instant spawning in general removes one aspect from the game: the ability to learn by watching others. Yeah, it doesn't sound like much, but I've learned a number of useful tactics while I was not even playing, but rather watching my teammates as a spectator for a few seconds.

I'm sure a number of people will disagree with me, but Instant Respawn on the Turbine server today has decreased the player count (averaging around 18-24 players of a max of 32) and it has been seen and said to be rather unpopular. Take, for example, the 8-12 people I saw earlier whose names reflected their position on the matter.

I'm sure what I've said will have no impact on the outcome of the issue, but I've said it and I'm glad I'm able to voice my opinion this time without worrying about a locked thread.

 

[Jinsei Zetsumei]

I just got done playing, and to be honost it feels about the same as it dose now as it did then. I think its a good idea becasue well to be honost I hate the map. So the quicker action makes it more ineteresting IMO, and it seems that so far the game actuly moves with winners a bit faster or atleast it did, with out one side completly dominateing the middle.

So I vote that this was a good move but only time will tell as garden and other people continued to stress to us. But I think it will keep the traffic going, hopefully anyways.

 

[I-Die-Often]

Instant respawn doesn't seem like a bad idea on Turbine... IMHO insta-spawn can make weaker maps more fun (like Orange_X3). With a sniper happy map like Orange or a tight map like Turbine, people tend to get killed a lot... and waiting 20 seconds for respawn sucks when... well... when you suck at a map.

I have not played Turbine since the change, but I will say that shortened respawn times on the new Black Mesa map makes it a whole heck of a lot of fun... maybe not insta-spawn, but waiting 5 seconds instead of 20 keeps my attention more. Could a similar comprimise be reached in Turbine? A shorter 5-7 second respawn instead of insta-spawn? That seems like it would be a decent comprimise.

 

[Caval1er]

Place holder.

 

[DNice77]

Unfortunately, my opinion is weighted today because my team did really well last night.

I played engineer the entire night and did quite well I played no other classes so I can't really say much about them

PRO:
it's painful to be on the team that has long respawn times as a result of getting pinned in on the map. Its an easy map to get frustrated on if you have 3 or 4 engineers camping the middle with high level sentries. Insta-respawn helps break that, in a sense, since players play less defensively.

But so does the shorter map times (resulting in team scramble)

CON:
players on insta-respawn maps tend to be a lot more aggressive and suicidal, which changes the game dynamics, being a medic for a suicidal demo or soldier or heavy isn't much fun.

Also, in direct contrast to my comment about the engineer above, insta-respawn also creates more havoc because a wrecked sentry will be rebuilt quickly, there's not much "window of opportunity" for a pinned-in team to break out with insta respawn


Overall, I think I prefer regular respawns, but insta-spawn was pretty fun last night as a change of pace

EDIT: is there a way to "reverse" the regular spawn weighting? That is, decrease respawn for a losing team rather than extending it? Although this might lead to more stalemates on Turbine, it'd lead to less rolls... which tend to be quite common in this map

 

[.[BORN]2kill]

I originally posted this last night. Here it is again:

I have been a regular on the eGO Turbine server for a loooong time. Yesterday when I logged on at lunch to get a few frags in I noticed the server is now an "Instant Respawn" server. Frankly, I think it stinks. I am not trying to offend andbody... just being straight to the point. I am not the only person on the server who has this opinion. Most, if not all the regulars I have seen comment about it or talked to do not like it either. Many of the players in the server changed their name to "CHANGE IT BACK" or something similar (Stauf1186 has a screenshot of this above). Actually for the first time in my recent memory many people dumped from the server leaving it only 2/3rds full.

The main reason why I, and others do not like this change is that it has totally ruined the flow of the map. See, the beautiful thing about Turbine is the teamwork it takes to secure the middle. Controlling the middle room is what it is all about. It takes the right balance of interaction and character selection to make this possible. Engineers will build, players will wait in ambush, medics will work with a fellow player to gain control - and keep it for as long as possible. If one team is dominated and pushed back into their base they will have to rally and work together to regain control of the middle and push the other team back. I have played some awesome games where we were dominated and turtled and worked together with medics, etc to bust out and take the middle back.

Well now all the teamwork factor is gone. The map has digressed into an instant respawn spam fest.. there is little or no time for an engineer to effectively setup. Its almost an "every man for him/herself" type run and gun attitude. It stinks. I would love it if it could be switched back to regular spawn.

--born

p.s. Thank you Garden for giving us the opportunity to have our voice heard. I personally think it is a little harsh to force people to change with no communication. These servers can be a home away from home for us (we spend so much time there) and it is only fair to at least give us a warning of some kind when a major change like this takes place.

 

[Davincivirus]

agreed

Well, as I've said in a previous thread, it messes with class and game dynamics with instant respawn.

Soldiers (like myself) become spam happy and suicidal. Same goes to Demomen (the suicidal part).

Snipers become nearly worthless against a rush. One kill, another replaces him and the wave is now closer.

Spies gain power since people aren't going to be as worried about backstabs since there's no real penalty for death.

Engineers become less valuable since spamming enemies make it difficult to have a proper defense set up.

Scouts become more frequent since the spawn timer is not there to limit them (the rate at which they die and the rate at which they can get right back into things become much, much closer).

Turbine doesn't seem very suited to instant spawning. I don't know quite how to explain it, but the map just feels different when I pop right back two seconds later.

Instant spawning in general removes one aspect from the game: the ability to learn by watching others. Yeah, it doesn't sound like much, but I've learned a number of useful tactics while I was not even playing, but rather watching my teammates as a spectator for a few seconds.

I'm sure a number of people will disagree with me, but Instant Respawn on the Turbine server today has decreased the player count (averaging around 18-24 players of a max of 32) and it has been seen and said to be rather unpopular. Take, for example, the 8-12 people I saw earlier whose names reflected their position on the matter.

I'm sure what I've said will have no impact on the outcome of the issue, but I've said it and I'm glad I'm able to voice my opinion this time without worrying about a locked thread.

I def second this! Turbine should be a normal map once again to perserve player and deter spawn camping

 

[BlindCow]

I don't play on Turbine often, but once in a while it is a nice change of pace.

I did not like the flow of the game myself with instant respawn up. I do echo the sentiments of some of the others that maybe a 10 second respawn timer might be a better compromise.

I realize that instant spawn 2Fort is a very popular map, but unlike 2Fort we have options for the two types of server here. Turbine is not popular enough (IMO) to have two different maps dedicated to it. I didn't enjoy my time (albeit limited) in Turbine yesterday. It went from a fun diversion to something I didn't want to log into.

 

[DEMODER]

I don't play on instant respawn servers. I think in all the time we've had instant spawn 2fort, I logged into it, once, for just a few minutes until a spot on another server opened up. Instant spawn servers are not fun, as your basically not playing TF2. You might as well remove all objectives from the map and have it be a straight deathmatch map. If I felt like playing that, I'd load up Quake 3. On instant spawn servers, teamwork doesn't matter, kills don't matter, strategy doesn't matter. It's not a condusive enviroment to a game that's supposed to be about working together as a team. It's just everyone running around only caring about themselves and how many kills they can get to pad their hlx stats.

The moment I saw turbine was now instant respawn, one of the servers I played on frequently became a server I'll never log onto again. I'm sorry if this is not a popular take on the issue, but I want to enjoy playing TEAM Fortress 2, not ME Fortress 2.

 

[KecK]

I personally am not the biggest fan of Instant Respawn. I wont be playing on turbine much more if it stays instant respawn. It takes away the ability to have coordinated pushes into the base actually mean anything. Lets say a medic ubers me and we kill 5 people on our way to the intel. Usually those 5 people would be dead and wait the 10-20 seconds to respawn, giving me a chance to grab the intel. On an instant respawn server by the time I get to the intel those same people are back defending it. Instant respawn changes the goal of the game from capturing the intel to scoring the most points and changes the balance giving the defenders even more of an advantage. /whine /whine /whine

 

[GardenGroveVW]

I played it for about an 1hr and half, I really enjoyed it. Seams like there were less steam rolls, no one complaining about steam rolls, which is a plus in my opinion.

It was a lot of fun having that death match feel to it. I understand most of your guys arguments. We all talked last night err some of us that were on. We are going to try this for a week. If it doesn't work out the way we planned we will switch it back.


PS. From now on we will post when we are making changes to the server IE adding instant respawn.

On a side note, when you go to the grocery and you want to buy your favorite kind of chips, and they stop selling them, do they give you a warning?



One last thing, this isn't a flame thread. If there is anyone starting to flame each others opinion's, this thread will be locked. Just say your reason why you like it or dislike it in a civil manner.

 

[Nero]

On a side note, when you go to the grocery and you want to buy your favorite kind of chips, and they stop selling them, do they give you a warning?

Oddly enough, yes.

------
Anyway, I like the insta respawn. I always seemed to lose really quick on Turbine before.

 

[Shutter]

I'm really not keen on instaspawn either. I think it ends up encouraging much more reckless, spammy play that normal as there's a much smaller penalty for dying. And, as a result, biases a server much more towards the big assault classes, and towards turtled play. The light offensive classes (primarily scouts, but also spies) and non-standard playstyles like offensive engies, really have a hard time contributing in that kind of an environment.

Also, in some ways, Turbine is a lot worse for instaspawn than 2Fort (though at least it doesn't have sniper decks 5 seconds away from spawn, which is something I guess). As it's a small map, and the routes are more constricted that 2fort, the long bottlenecks present in the map (like the upstairs vent, or the long hallway right by spawn) are almost always going to have opposing players in them with the higher player density of instaspawn. You won't be able to get through without killing at least 1-2 people, and I expect it will cut off a lot of opportunities to get behind the frontline and bring intel out to the midfield. So most caps are going to be multiple medic/X combos assaulting down the left hallway.

I'm sure Garden's right that you'll never get the steamrolled effect that you do on regular Turbine, but I expect you're also going to stalemate way more often. And I guess I'm willing to deal with occasional steamroller periods (which don't last forever with the new map reloads/team scrambles) than log in for perpetual mid-room deathmatch.

 

[.[BORN]2kill]

On a side note, when you go to the grocery and you want to buy your favorite kind of chips, and they stop selling them, do they give you a warning?

Well, if I dedicated half my free time to ruffles and joined a chip clan then I would prolly be pretty upset about it! lol

On a more serious note i have gone to customer service before when a usual food has disappeared. Call me strange.

--born

 

[Jubei]

I actually like the pure chaos that instant respawn servers create. I like running into walls of enemies (even if it is the same 4 people 3 different times).

I was on the same time Garden and Drunken Sailor were last night and we did have a blast. It was hard as hell keeping the middle locked down and even harder keeping the intel safe when it made it out of our base.

 

[I-Die-Often]

I played it for about an 1hr and half, I really enjoyed it. Seams like there were less steam rolls, no one complaining about steam rolls, which is a plus in my opinion.

Ahh yes... the steam roll.... that is why I seldom play Turbine. The teams get stacked and one team dominates the other time and time again. Although I have seen some one say that they key is taking control of the center section, that is usually when the steam rolling starts... nothing like three or four SG3s spread out in the center room to shut down a fun game...

Looks like I will give insta-spawn a shot today...

 

[Kestrel]

Urgh. I can't stand instant respawn. The game was balanced with a bit of downtime in mind (that beautiful, sweet balance is what makes TF2 a fantastic game to begin with), and instaspawn just curbstomps it. It's not as bad for a symmetrical map, I admit. What makes it especially tough is the SIZE of turbine: a tiny little map with instantpops? It's like watching two treadmills grind away at each other.

Additionally, I'd strongly recommend turning the slot number down to something more fitting a map of that size. 24? 20 is really optimal.

 

[GardenGroveVW]

Ahh yes... the steam roll.... that is why I seldom play Turbine. The teams get stacked and one team dominates the other time and time again. Although I have seen some one say that they key is taking control of the center section, that is usually when the steam rolling starts... nothing like three or four SG3s spread out in the center room to shut down a fun game...

Looks like I will give insta-spawn a shot today...

And this is exactly why we wanted to try instant respawn. It doesn't have that steam roll affect anymore. Which is very nice and the less complaining we have the better. We've fixed dustbowl putting a 90 min rotation on it. Stays full ALL night long now, i wish i would of known that sooner.

Don't knock it until you play it for more then 10 mins. You wont get the full effect if you only play it for 2 mins.


This goes for everyone:
I'd say at least play it for an hour and then come back here and tell us how much you hate it :/ Just my opinion.