Building a new computer, need input!

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s3rv0

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So, as the title suggests, I've been tooling around with building a new computer. My gaming desktop, circa 2003, has called it quits, and I've finally decided to buy a new system. I've created a list of specs based on preliminary research, I just put it together at a pre-fab computer site (www.cyberpowerpc.com), because honestly I lack the expertise I once had to build a computer from scratch. My knowledge has atrophied with new technologies, and I'm just too damned busy with school and work to bother. Plus, with past troubles, I'd welcome a warranty. So, if you read the specs at the bottom of this post, keep in mind I want a kick-ass gaming rig (though definitely not "best of the best," as that is far too expensive for a college kid like myself), but I don't mind if I have to cut a corner or two to keep the price down.

Annnnnnnyway, after reading some reviews (www.tomshardware.com), I pieced this baby together for a bit over $1500. It's not absolutely positively top notch, but my goal was less than $1600. From cyberpowerpc, I customized their "Gamer Infinity 8900 Deluxe" quad core machine. I do have a few questions, though.

Major questions: I noticed comparable performance on ATI vs nVidia cards. I've always had nVidia cards, but for the same performance, I will have to choose the cheaper option (ATI). Do you think ATI represents a better card for the buck? Also, with the 4850 card, do you think the 512 cards (I would be running a dual-SLI setup) would be alright, or would 2x 1gb cards instead offer a significantly better show? My current card is 512 and handles HL2 games and such pretty well, so the ram is doubled on top of that already. The difference from 2x 512 cards to 2x 1 gig cards is $100. Worth it? Reviews here seem to be inconclusive.

Also: Processors. Holy crap have I fallen out of touch with them. When I was building my first computer the big graphics revolution was going on, and so much more emphasis was placed on your graphics card than processor. Now I'm really sort of dumbstruck by choosing a processor, how many, what clock speed, etc. I went with a high-end intel quad-core setup here. I haven't looked at reviews (yet, though I intend to) on these, 'cause I'm too tired of reading that crap. Anyway, input here would be great. I especially am curious if it would be worth the $86 to upgrade from 2.4 ghz processors to 3.33, which also bumps the FSB to 1333 from 1066.

Sound cards: I never knew much about them because I was always one of the guys who would listen to crappy onboard audio, then listen to a high-end audio card's output, and not really notice a difference. I selected the onboard audio with this motherboard, but should I consider a card?

Any other general questions or comments are welcome.

Without further delay, here are the specs I've chosen. I left in all the details, in case anyone wanted to go to the website and tool around with the specs to see what they can create. If anyone wants to improve upon what I have here, offer advice and their own specs they'd use (or a different business they'd go with to construct the PC, or any input at all) please do. If you have suggestions that take it a bit over $1600, I won't mind. It's all about value, so if I can increase performance significantly for a minor increase in price, I'll do it. So, here we go:


CASE: Sigma Gaming Windstorm Mid-Tower 420W Case (Blue Color with Side-Window)
Neon Light Upgrade: NONE
Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Default case fans
POWER SUPPLY Upgrade: 680 Watts Power Supplies (Hush Power Supply SLI/CrossFire Ready)
CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel? Core™ 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz 1066FSB 8MB L2 Cache 64-bit
COOLING FAN : XtremeGear Ultra Heatpipe Cool Copper Heatsink CPU Cooling Fan (Extreme Silent at 20dBA & Overclock Proof)
MOTHERBOARD: GigaByte GA-EP45T-DS3R Intel P45 Express CrossFireX Chipset LGA775 FSB1600 DDR3/1600 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394a, & 7.1Audio
MEMORY: 8GB (2GBx4) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory Module (Corsair or Major Brand)
FREEBIES: None
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCI-E 16X 1GB Video Card (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
VIDEO CARD 2: ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCI-E 16X 1GB Video Card (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
2nd Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (1TB (500GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
USB PORTABLE DRIVE: USB 2.0 Portable Flash Drive (8GB)
Optical Drive: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD?R/?RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLUE COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: 16X DVD ROM (BLUE COLOR)
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
SPEAKERS: Logitech (BLACK) X-540 70Watts 5.1 Configuration Speaker System
NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
MODEM: NONE
KEYBOARD: NONE
MOUSE: NONE
Extra Thermal Display : THERMAL TEMPERATURE LCD DISPLAY WITH 3X FAN CONTROLLER (BLUE COLOR)
 
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The computer looks good, but based on what I can put together from newegg.com, you realize that they're making roughly $200 off of you? A similarly specd system will only cost around $1300 in parts from newegg. Unfortunately, you have to put it together yourself, but if you don't want to do that, I guess that's a decent system. You should definitely keep the quad core CPU though. Hopefully, CyberpowerPC warrants overclocking your CPU. If it doesn't, that's a rip off.

One suggestion though: trade out both 4850's for a single 4870 1GB card if that's possible. You'd get more stability and game compatibility that way.
 
It's been my experience (as an nVidia SLI user and biased stockholder) that it's probably better to spend the $300 or so that you would have spent on two cards on one single card. GPU's are outdated constantly, and SLI/Crossfire doesn't scale 2:1 like you would think. You can also cut down on power consumption a bit.

I have that same CPU, and it's an easy OC to 3Ghz (sometimes w/o any voltage bumps at all). When I got mine you wanted the g0 stepping, not the b3 for ocing. I use a Noctua NH-U12P hsf, and have been very happy with it. I have not heard of Xtreme Gear, and couldn't find that model online.

Very important: SLI does NOT add the video ram of the two cards. That is two say if you run 2x 512MB cards, you only have 512MB video ram. I don't know about crossfire (admitted nvidia fanboy -- they have linux drivers :) ), but I would imagine it would be the same thing. Having 512MB video ram hasn't been an issue for me (I run 2x 512MB 8800GT's in SLI) in most games, but it did keep me from running GTA4 at the settings I would have liked to.

If you do go with SLI/Crossfire, I would probably opt for a better PSU, I like the Corsair 750W. You cannot skimp on the power supply, especially if you are running two GPU's.
 
I would love to help, but I only know good recommendations for people that are tight on a budget, like spending no more than $500-$600 on a gaming computer.

I could put one together that's decent, can run CS:S or BF2 on full effects, but looks like you're going for a higher end PC.
 
I would recommend building it yourself.
If you are looking for strictly gaming performance get a higher clocked dual core. There aren't many games out that take advantage of two cores never mind all 4 on a quad core.
As for the difference between ATi and Nvidia, ATi has been traditionally cheaper for the same performance as long as Antialiasing isn't taken into account. With antialiasing at 4x or higher than the Nvidia card will out perform the ATi card by pretty large margin. So it depends on what matters to you more clean lines or cheap(er) performance otherwise.
If you're using a non core i7 processor then i don't see why you want the DDR3. I would suggest saving some money that can go towards some other component by going with ddr2. 4gb should be enough ddr2, unless you run some crazy servers or do a lot of video and picture editing.
A single 4870 would be worth it over the two 4850s. Especially if you pick up a card with 1gb of memory per core. Unfortunately crossfire and SLI only use the memory on the first card for anything important. So even if you have 2 512 cards it would be like having 512mb worth of gpu memory.
As for Hard drives, if you really want performance, get a smaller faster drive with a larger cache for your system dive then another hard drive to install your games on. Western Digital's 640gb drives are really fast for the price.
If you need the storage space pick up a 1TB drive as an additional data drive.
A sound card takes the audio processing off your cpu. Onboard uses the cpu to do the processing while a dedicated sound card would offload the computations.
If you do decide to build it yourself, I would get a better heatsink. A Zalman 9500, 9700 or a Thermaltake ultra something or another wouuld be great choices. Admittedly I don't know a lot anymore about air cooling since I went liquid a year ago.

But that's just my 2 cents, well there's enough text to maybe constitute me giving 3 cents.
PM me if you have any questions I can help you with.
 
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just a few questions Do you have an updated Os so you can use that much Ram and have you looked around at other sites? Like Uberclok?
 
Moved from Division Discussion to Tech Help.

Back on-topic...is there any reason why you're buying two 4850s? A single 4870 1GB will be more than enough. No need to worry about Crossfire profiles and all the other hassles that come with two cards.
 
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For $1468 you can have a computer that would future proof your self and is way better and the CPU can be oc'ed to 4GHz on air and be stable with the cooler i tossed on i would say Go for this but its up to you and people please tell me if what i did is 10x better or not

also you gunna want vista 64 bit for this one



CASE: Thermaltake ElementS Mid-Tower 420W Case

Neon Light Upgrade: NONE

Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Default case fans

POWER SUPPLY Upgrade: 650 Watts Power Supplies (Corsair CMPSU-650TX - Quad SLI Ready)

CPU: Intel? Core? i7-920 2.66 GHz 8M L3 Cache LGA1366

COOLING FAN : ($10 off Mail-in Rebate) Thermaltake V1 Gaming CPU Cooling Fan (Excellent Overclocking + Silent Proof + Smart CPU & System Thermal Monitor)

MOTHERBOARD: MSI X58 Platinum Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA RAID w/ eSATA, Dual GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394a, & 7.1Audio

MEMORY: 6GB (2GBx3) PC1333 DDR3 PC3 10666 Triple Channel Memory (Corsair Dominator)

FREEBIES: None

VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon HD 4870 PCI-E 16X 1GB DDR5 Video Card (Major
Brand Powered by ATI)
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
2nd Monitor: NONE

HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (750GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
USB PORTABLE DRIVE: NONE

Optical Drive: Sony 20X Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

SPEAKERS: NONE
NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
MODEM: NONE
KEYBOARD: Logitech Deluxe 250 USB Keyboard (Black Color)
MOUSE: XtremeGear Optical USB 3 Buttons Gaming Mouse
Extra Thermal Display : NONE
Wireless 802.11B/G Network Card: NONE
Flash Media Reader/Writer: None

Cable Wiring: Professional Wiring for All WIRINGs Inside The System Chasis with High Performance Thermal Compound on CPU

Rounded Cable: None
VIDEO CAMERA: NONE
PRINTER: None
PRINTER CABLE: None
IEEE CARD: NONE
USB PORT: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
FLOPPY: NONE

OS: Microsoft? Windows Vista? Home Premium w/ Service Pack 1 (64-bit Edition)

FREEBIES: None
Media Center Remote Control & TV Tuner: None
SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
RUSH SERVICE: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
 
Unless you do audio production, any soundcard that's NOT software driven will do fine. Don't use the onboard sound. The only real difference is that onboard audio will use your CPU to process sound, a hardware audio card has a built in sound processor which leaves your CPU free from the extra, albeit small, overhead.

Go with nVidia because I believe they support the community better, and anyways whens the last time you saw a game 'made for ATI'. I know its just marketing but... I'm a linux user, and as stated above, they support the people who use their product better then ATI.

You get more bang for you buck going with AMD over Intel. Most games and applications don't take advantage of dual cores yet alone quad cores. While multitasking will fly by though.

Depending on your OS 8 GB of RAM could be overkill. I've never used Vista and wouldn't wish it on my enemies but I do use a XP system for games from time to time. XP (32bit) I think will only recognize about 3GB of memory.

Harddrives are the most prone part for failure, besides fans they're the only moving part. Unless you're backing up your data you're doubling your chances of having a hardware failure and losing everything on your drives. I'm assuming the two 500GB where a Raid array? If anything go with a Raid 1 array, it'll still load all your applications twice as fast butgive you the security of never having to 'start over'

If you've built a computer in the past there isn't much that has changed. There are different looking cables that plug into different looking ports but generally its been the same for 15 years now. As long as you know what you're getting is compatible it's just an issue of being patient and following the right steps to put it together. You can save a lot of money that way just on the case! That is if you don't care what it looks like, and I never understood why you would... It's all about performance in my eyes.

$.02
 
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No way am I ever doing water cooling again. That's in my current system and it has been a nightmare. Never ever again. Ever. Never.

So, having read some more reviews and taken advice and done research on what I've heard here, I've got some revised specs that hopefully will perform just as well, but actually saved me quite a bit.

Here we go:

Case: Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window (BLACK COLOR)
CPU: (Sckt775)Intel? Core™ 2 Duo E8600 CPU @ 3.33GHz 1333FSB 6MB L2 Cache 64-bit
Mainboard: MSI P7N SLI-FI 750i SLI Chipset LGA775 Supports LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, &7.1Audio
Memory: 4GB (2GBx2) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Kingston HyperX)
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 4870 PCI-E 16X 1GB DDR5 Video Card
Video Card 2: NONE
VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (64 GB Ritek RiDATA 2.5 inch SATA Gaming MLC Solid State Disk (Nearly Instant Data Access Technology))
Data Hard Drive: 1TB (500GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
Optical Drive: (Special Price)LG 20X DVD?R/?RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: 16X DVD ROM (BLACK COLOR)
Sound: Creative Labs SB Audigy SE

This one was from buyxg.com, which seems to offer a decent bargain. I know, sacrilege that a nerd won't piece together his own box, but really, I would much rather take a warranty and the assurance that I won't mess it up (it's happened before, a few times, heh. Never major but enough to make me worry).
 
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Swap out the MSI P7N for the Asus P5Q Pro instead. Also, replace the Standard Case PSU with a CMPSU-650TX. It'll cost an extra $108, but the option will then be open for you to grab a second 4870 in the future to CrossFire.

I'd also recommend the Centurion RC-590 over the Xion III...but its your case, personal preference etc.
 
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Why not build an amd rig? The new phenom II's are from what ive seen a lot better than amd used to be. Also, I dont know what case you were looking at but why not get a little cheaper of one. It wouldnt hurt the pinch the pennies there and spend it on something better?
 
smoochee said:
Why not build an amd rig? The new phenom II's are from what ive seen a lot better than amd used to be. Also, I dont know what case you were looking at but why not get a little cheaper of one. It wouldnt hurt the pinch the pennies there and spend it on something better?
Click to expand...

AMD's are hotter, they don't overclock as well as Intel chips do.

A few things. If your getting a 750i board, go for EVGA. I have one, its great... lifetime warranty, great overclocker, dual x16. Also, if your getting a 750i, why get an Ati card? No Crossfire on the 750i's. If you WANT to do crossfire in the future, get a P7N, or a P5Q if you are a single card kinda guy.
 
deimos said:
AMD's are hotter, they don't overclock as well as Intel chips do.

A few things. If your getting a 750i board, go for EVGA. I have one, its great... lifetime warranty, great overclocker, dual x16. Also, if your getting a 750i, why get an Ati card? No Crossfire on the 750i's. If you WANT to do crossfire in the future, get a P7N, or a P5Q if you are a single card kinda guy.
Click to expand...



Did you not see the thread about the new phenom II hitting 6.5ghz on l2h.
I know its not real world but the new quads can overclock to 3.8-4.0 on air if you know what your doing.


If you go amd dont buy anything other than the p2. If you want dual core go for intel. Get an e8400 and a good cpu cooler and overclock it. Itll save you a lot of money compared to getting the e8600.
 
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