Farewell, Heavy
- Thread starter Goretex
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I don't understand why a baseball can stun an ?ber while it can't stun a scout who's under the effect of the energy drink. Makes no sense to me.
Anyway, I think the ?ber-stun duration should be a bit shorter and that the stun duration overall should not only be affected by range but also by the health percentage of the target. So, for example, a pyro at 100% health would be stunned longer than a pyro at 45% health. A 100% health scout would be stunned as long as a 100% heavy at the same range.
Just my oppinion.
-Calle
Anyway, I think the ?ber-stun duration should be a bit shorter and that the stun duration overall should not only be affected by range but also by the health percentage of the target. So, for example, a pyro at 100% health would be stunned longer than a pyro at 45% health. A 100% health scout would be stunned as long as a 100% heavy at the same range.
Just my oppinion.
-Calle
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Alright I will preface this by saying I believe this Sandman deal will fade away. BUT...
A lot of you are missing the key point about this. When a pyro goes in to airblast he opens himself up to be an EASY kill. There is a drawback to standing there and airblasting someone into the air. They scout has no such trade off. Sure he can't double jump which makes him less maneuverable BUT that's not a trade off when you can just stun someone and run away. Also it doesn't require to scout to put himself into a dangerous place. The way this thing will evolve and has been evolving if you are paying any attention is a scout no longer will charge into battle, UNLESS they stun someone. They will stun, run up, kill, run away. If they miss, they run away for like 10 sec and wait to get their ball back for a free kill. That is not balance and this needs to be fixed ASAP.
A lot of you are missing the key point about this. When a pyro goes in to airblast he opens himself up to be an EASY kill. There is a drawback to standing there and airblasting someone into the air. They scout has no such trade off. Sure he can't double jump which makes him less maneuverable BUT that's not a trade off when you can just stun someone and run away. Also it doesn't require to scout to put himself into a dangerous place. The way this thing will evolve and has been evolving if you are paying any attention is a scout no longer will charge into battle, UNLESS they stun someone. They will stun, run up, kill, run away. If they miss, they run away for like 10 sec and wait to get their ball back for a free kill. That is not balance and this needs to be fixed ASAP.
Totally agree Cicatriz. There is little to no risk for scouts. The way they eliminate ubers is not good at all. A pyro can disrupt an uber but the pyro can be killed to salvage part of the uber. A scout will not be killed and completely eliminates the uber and gets the stunned player killed.
Another thing I have noticed is hot a scout stuns you and then a sniper will clean you off. Other classes do this as well but the big animated "bonk" is like a huge flashing sign that says "shoot me" and most snipers do.
This stuff about sandman only affecting choke points or close quarters is wrong too. Warpath is very difficult to play right now, even on the bridge where it is very wide open.
I predict a nerf to the sandman. If not, then this has been the biggest change to the game to me.
Another thing I have noticed is hot a scout stuns you and then a sniper will clean you off. Other classes do this as well but the big animated "bonk" is like a huge flashing sign that says "shoot me" and most snipers do.
This stuff about sandman only affecting choke points or close quarters is wrong too. Warpath is very difficult to play right now, even on the bridge where it is very wide open.
I predict a nerf to the sandman. If not, then this has been the biggest change to the game to me.
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Honestly, after playing some this morning. I think we, eGO (if allowed by council), need to make a strong petition to Valve about fixing this. We are the largest gaming community out there and they have already recognized that.
This thing is simply out of hand.
This thing is simply out of hand.
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I think the time it can stun ubers should be 1/2 or 1/4 the time that it would normally stun someone from that distance.
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Oh happy day! 
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I think the Sandman does need tweaks but it does introduce a new kind of team work that is interesting. Me personally when I see a team mate get bonked I try my best to get to him and keep the Scout at bay until he recovers or one or the both of us die.
After a while with tweaks that will come (Every update has had tweaks post-release I think) and the number of Scouts reduce and people get a "SAVE THE BONKED!" mentality things will be good and fun. (Now saving your buddies isn't reserved to Medics only.) Heck you should get a bonus point for killing a Scout that has bonked a team mate.
After a while with tweaks that will come (Every update has had tweaks post-release I think) and the number of Scouts reduce and people get a "SAVE THE BONKED!" mentality things will be good and fun. (Now saving your buddies isn't reserved to Medics only.) Heck you should get a bonus point for killing a Scout that has bonked a team mate.
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The Sandman is just too over powered. As Cicatriz said, scouts can just try to stun from a distance and if they miss run away. I have no doubt it will be changed but what could/should they do to make it more balanced? I think I'd rather see the Sandman push someone back with out the stun effect like a long range compression blast or maybe make it give a certain amount of damage instead of the stun effect.
*caugh* spy *caugh*
ANYway the sandman i think is bringing the scout really into TF2...baseballs are ANNOYING fine i'll grant that but, its already been said that other classes can do about the same thing with weapons they already have...the whole POINT of this weapons is that the scout makes it so an enemy cannot fight back for a few seconds, take that away and theres no point to the weapon anymore.
okay before you tell me that its unbalanced think about this: the scout BEFORE this update could'nt even kill a single enemy if that enemy had a decent accuracy, now the scout instead of being killed in a gunfight can either: 1: baseball the person and run away or 2: baseball the person and unload 2 FaN shells into his chest.
before the scout was called "weak" and "needed an upgrade" and also "needs to be balanced" now we HAVE that upgrade, balance, strenghtening whatever and people say he's OVERpowered now.
people thought the flare gun was overpowered if you remember, back when that came out...and i remember hearing people complain about the KGB/sandvich...oh yeah and the ubersaw too lets not forget that...this is just like the last 3 mainstream updates
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"IF" they allow these scout changes and they continue to interfere with an uber then i feel a medic should take 1/2 time to charge up then.. nothing like wasting a minute to uber up just to have your heavy stunned.
As for tactics the best way to over come large scout teams is to spawn camp with pyros. Mesa will be less spawn camp friendly on next up date but i was about to cut the extra exits after watching what the scouts were doing.
The bottom line is that scouts are the fastest class. They should not be able to kill other heavy units out in the open with impunity. They are meant to go for the flag, capture points faster, harass the enemy from behind and in the old days find enemy spys. I see them doing none of that now. Purhaps these changes they have made should have been reserved for a new class? Because honestly thats what they feel like.
As for "Team" tactics what i see now is an entire team playing towards killing scouts. Not spies, not medics and not even sniper/sniper wars. Just all out zero in and contain the scouts so they can be slaughtered all at one time.
Next game you will be hearing me say "Scout check!" as i torch up. (I even nail a few spies by accident)
~D
As for tactics the best way to over come large scout teams is to spawn camp with pyros. Mesa will be less spawn camp friendly on next up date but i was about to cut the extra exits after watching what the scouts were doing.
The bottom line is that scouts are the fastest class. They should not be able to kill other heavy units out in the open with impunity. They are meant to go for the flag, capture points faster, harass the enemy from behind and in the old days find enemy spys. I see them doing none of that now. Purhaps these changes they have made should have been reserved for a new class? Because honestly thats what they feel like.
As for "Team" tactics what i see now is an entire team playing towards killing scouts. Not spies, not medics and not even sniper/sniper wars. Just all out zero in and contain the scouts so they can be slaughtered all at one time.
Next game you will be hearing me say "Scout check!" as i torch up. (I even nail a few spies by accident)
~D
do it
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What you fail to realize Doomcat is that Scouts needed an upgrade, they didn't need to made a near invulnerable class.
Valve was spot on with BONK!, it created a situation where scouts could get passed sentries/enemy fire in Dustbowl/Goldrush/etc. But this stun is absolutely ridiculous. Every class should have a roll to play, scouts have taken everybody's roll.
They are the fastest class
They cap the fastest
They are a high powered class- they can take out anyone one on one.
They stop ubers
They can get behind lines
Medic- Got survivability, faster way to get up ubers (at a high risk)
Heavy- Got a slow and a way to be some what able to be on his own
Pyro- Pushback
Scout- Pushback, Invunerability for 5 sec and a stun.
Valve was spot on with BONK!, it created a situation where scouts could get passed sentries/enemy fire in Dustbowl/Goldrush/etc. But this stun is absolutely ridiculous. Every class should have a roll to play, scouts have taken everybody's roll.
They are the fastest class
They cap the fastest
They are a high powered class- they can take out anyone one on one.
They stop ubers
They can get behind lines
Medic- Got survivability, faster way to get up ubers (at a high risk)
Heavy- Got a slow and a way to be some what able to be on his own
Pyro- Pushback
Scout- Pushback, Invunerability for 5 sec and a stun.
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I couldn't disagree more with what you guys are saying about the Scout being overpowered. Maybe the bat needs tweaking, but I'd rather keep it the way it is.
Like Blackmesa said, if I see a teammate get bonked, I rush to their aid, as a Scout or whatever. If you happen to get caught alone with a Scout and can't dodge the ball he hits at you (the wooden baseball bat is a very obvious indication he might lob one at you), then you'd better make sure you stick with the team. Don't get mad because you are suddenly getting killed by a 125 HP class when your 200 HP should "pwnzrz him" completely. The new Scount updates emphasize team work and not just Ramboing it out there.
I really don't think we as a community should be dictating to Valve how everyone else out there should play the game. Who are we to tell other people how the Scout class should really play? There was a huge uproar when the Pyro blasts started pushing ubers back and I can still remember the immense amount of complaining. You'll get used to it, the achievement spamming will die down, and just work with your team more.
Remember its called Team Fortress 2. Roll with the punches guys.
Like Blackmesa said, if I see a teammate get bonked, I rush to their aid, as a Scout or whatever. If you happen to get caught alone with a Scout and can't dodge the ball he hits at you (the wooden baseball bat is a very obvious indication he might lob one at you), then you'd better make sure you stick with the team. Don't get mad because you are suddenly getting killed by a 125 HP class when your 200 HP should "pwnzrz him" completely. The new Scount updates emphasize team work and not just Ramboing it out there.
I really don't think we as a community should be dictating to Valve how everyone else out there should play the game. Who are we to tell other people how the Scout class should really play? There was a huge uproar when the Pyro blasts started pushing ubers back and I can still remember the immense amount of complaining. You'll get used to it, the achievement spamming will die down, and just work with your team more.
Remember its called Team Fortress 2. Roll with the punches guys.
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The BONK is practically useless except maybe Dustbowl. The Sandman is overpowered, and needs some fixing. The FaN is amazingly perfect.
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I just want to add.....the scout IS overpowered. Although it's my favorite class, the scout can basically take on any class on and not having to lose their health, and all it takes is a baseball. I've seen numerous people just throw their baseball, run up to someone and kill without losing any health. "BUT YOU GOTZ THE TEAMS ON YOUR BACKSZZZ, ZEY CAN KILL TINY BABY".....well lets not forget...the enemy scout probably has the heavy behind his back, the medic, the pyro, the demoman.......oh and let's not forget the sniper who is mostly likely going to pick off the person who's standing still >.>.
You don't understand people, valve has chosen in the past to exclude weapons that will disable players from moving for a reason, balancing problems. I don't know what changed Valve's mind but I hope they can fix this. Imho...I was happy when Sandman was announced because I read about the idea on steamforums like months ago, the idea was that the baseball would spin/stun sentries around. BUT that just destroys "the bonk" which most people don't even like to use. Valve should have never listened to the community's idea for class upgrades, I hope they learned their lesson.
You know what? I think the sandman, should actually blur someone's vision. Like make his screen go all weird *as if he was dizzy* with stars blocking his vision, like you see in a cartoon. So it actually allows the person to fight back but it stills puts them in a situation where it's still gives the scout the ability to maneuver!!
You don't understand people, valve has chosen in the past to exclude weapons that will disable players from moving for a reason, balancing problems. I don't know what changed Valve's mind but I hope they can fix this. Imho...I was happy when Sandman was announced because I read about the idea on steamforums like months ago, the idea was that the baseball would spin/stun sentries around. BUT that just destroys "the bonk" which most people don't even like to use. Valve should have never listened to the community's idea for class upgrades, I hope they learned their lesson.
You know what? I think the sandman, should actually blur someone's vision. Like make his screen go all weird *as if he was dizzy* with stars blocking his vision, like you see in a cartoon. So it actually allows the person to fight back but it stills puts them in a situation where it's still gives the scout the ability to maneuver
!!
