The Ideal BlackMesa (Suggestions here please)

[TheZaw]

Hey people. First, be nice, civil, think out your arguments, agree to disagree, think of how each class is affected and each suggestion would contribute to the goals of a map (fun, ease of mastery, low confusion level, not a turtle fest, etc). Post your suggestions/comments of the new blackmesa that you think DragonHill should implement in his already awesome map.

For instance: Take out the barrels at A. A is sniper and scout territory, as the rest of mesa is very closed quaters. The cover makes it harder to snipe and harder to scout. Soldier get a HUGE advantage by shooting splash damage on the barrels. They also make transportation a huge pain in the behind. OR make the barrels explosive so that barrels will be destroyed at the beginning in the map, just like windows/grates/vent caps.


I'll put a list up after each post and hopefully this will be the best way for DH to gather all the changes the community wants him to make. I'll put a pros and cons section after each suggestion so people can add what could be great or bad about each suggestion.

Post on!


Suggestions:

Lack of choke points.


The blast doors should stay the way they were when you could only open them from one side. The switch removes its purpose. Since they almost always get left open it removes a lot of dynamic from the map. The crab rooms with the small vent door to get to the final cap points has become totally useless.

The spawn door to A should only go to A and not to the vent system above the respawn area. As is, it makes attacking the final point even crazier.

 

[Yankee [inactive]]

A few observations...

Lack of choke points.

Vents are fine. People need to go spec and look at them from above. The adjustment is really simple and a good move.

The blast doors should stay the way they were when you could only open them from one side. The switch removes its purpose. Since they almost always get left open it removes a lot of dynamic from the map. The crab rooms with the small vent door to get to the final cap points has become totally useless.

The spawn door to A should only go to A and not to the vent system above the respawn area. As is, it makes attacking the final point even crazier.

I'm not commenting about A since I never played that area much on the previous version.

Overall, I like the changes a lot. The areas above the final points is great and by no means makes it impossible. Its a great dynamic. Multiple spawn exits is good too.

The map overall is much more versatile. The key is to NOT think of it as the blackmesa we have been playing. The dynamics are too different and the old strategies no longer apply. This isn't bad either. We just need to get the hang of what the new strategies are. I don't know how many times I have asked friends to come play on blackmesa only to have them spend 30min at the map and say they didn't like it and leave. They never gave it time to get used to things. I plan on giving the new map LOTS of time =)

 

[DrNecroNancy]

Good fresh start Zaw
I hope Dragonhill doesn't mind this thread- it'd be nicer for him to look at though I think, the other ones got a lil flustery
----
I have a hard time w/ctrl jumping, I know it sounds silly but I think that's the only thing that's makin me feel handicap at the map haha- like this one part you come out to this lil balcony that is in the corner over the intel desk by the last point. I love its details that were added though!
Also, is the converyor belt supposed to make you crouch? I suppose my only beef w/the map is the "handicap-ness"... if that even makes sense, but I guess I just gotta get used to it anyway
Oh another thing, the portal causes motion sickness apparently! :O

 

[Use_My_Teleporter]

Mentioned in another thread:

A safer place for teleporter ENTRANCES. They die too fast, since enemies are everywhere. Almost can't camp with teles at all.

Edit: I also tried building at all the other spawn exits, same problem.

 

[Quaffer]

I was on last night for the first time.

Many people were complaining about the background hum. I'm not sure if they wanted it quieter or just gone.

I fear I don't have enough time on the game to offer other suggestions.

I had fun there.

 

[Synn]

The background music/sound/ambience/whatever, just makes me crazy. It's really annoying when trying to focus on the game.

 

[Masterpiece]

I didn't want to make another thread about the new blackmesa so I'll post my mini-review here

Let's start this.

This is how the map looks from above :

First of all, the spawn rooms.

They are absolutely awesome. I love the way how we spawn, and all the choices we have to leave it, without being camped. But, this may lead to something bad, as everybody go everywhere, instead of just taking the objectives.

One of the way lead to the A point:

IMO, this is a really good improvement. You can actually CHARGE on the ennemy team trying to capture point A. All it needs is a no-build zone.

This is another place where we can leave spawn.

Adding a door into this room is a really great idea. No more sticky spamming or whatever camping you had in the old version. There's one thing that could be improved though. The vent that we see on the picture leads to 2 exit really close to eachothers. It is not something that is really needed IMO, if you think about it, bringing back the old vent exit would practically do the same, without confusing players.

Another exit

This exit is pretty cool too, now this door leads to something, unlike in the old version. Nothing more to say about it, it's great.

This is the same exit as above, leading to the final point.

Another great idea, even more defense/attack power. This portal is nice too, making the effect a little bit different would be great thought. As some might have seen, this leads to a lot of stalemates. I can't think of any good ideas on how it could be improved right now, but I'm sure there's a way.

The door

I don't know what to say other than this button is cool, but isn't really at it's place. Automatic-doors was just perfect.

Staircase

Now this is AWESOME. I really love the new staircase, you can even jump down in the acid just for fun! But seriously, this is just perfect. Multiple ways to flee from the enemy.

Point A

At first I really wasn't sure, but I'm starting to think that it's a really good idea. It's really more friendly for close-combat class. The acid now doing less damage is a nice little touch, as you can escape in it and that fishy is epic The barrels should be lowered so you can actually climb on them and fight on them too.

Vents to points L and C

Once more a nice idea. I does not only lead you to one way, which is great, or you'd get airblasted by your fellow pyros into the fan You feel also safer by jumping into these vents because there is less chances that a sentry is waiting for you.

Points C and L

From this point of view, they look similar to the old ones in the first version of the map. *More people to airblast into the fan, YAY! * But yeah, you can no longer build a sentry on it to defend, this may be a bad thing, but you can build sentries in those vents.

Room where the platform leading to A is

I like how there's a new *floor* higher, making camping even more harder. You can now destroy sentries from under with rockets and stickies, now that the small paths are thin metal. *correct me if i'm wrong, you could do that with catwalks on point A*

Now, for the vents

If you look carefully at the vents in the first picture, you will notice that they are all connected. IMO, this is not a good thing. We experienced it, people complain that they are getting lost etc, etc. There is also the fact that you can move from points to point really easily and/or you can get lost, making teamwork really hard. The old vents were good I think, that connection between both teams vents was not a good idea.



Well, here ends my mini-review of the new Blackmesa. I hope dragonhill will read this, and consider few options. I fully understand that this is only a test map, but I wanted to state my opinion in a organized way, with picture so everybody understand what I'm talking about. You might be in disagree with few things that I stated, but this is my opinion of the new map. I think people complain much because this is such a HUGE step forward, almost everything is new, people need to try new things instead of just doing their usual killing on the old map. I mapped few times myself, I got few results, but they were far far away from being as good as dragonhill's work and it was for garry mod, not for team fortress where you need to take care of the balance for both team, classes, etc. You did a great job here dragonhill and with cooperation of everybody, this map will be the best!

 

[Jack Burton]

awesome map, amazing developer

 

[Dragonhill]

Thanx masterpiece,

that was a great visual review of the map.

And now for my thoughts..

I played last nite and it felt strange/weird/lonely. As many of the critics have pointed out it's not the mesa we all know and love/hate.

I'm going to be addressing the serious building issues and correct the portal effects. Along with that i want to focus on the real enemy/beast of the map. Capping the last control point. I know many of you want me to slap nobuilds in those rooms but i really hate it as an engi when you can only build in 50% of a map,,it sucks. I also hate pooping out of portal just to get face planted into the wall.

b/K may be getting some new loving. I'm going to keep this to myself until after i try out the changes. The Fishy inspired me in a dream.

btw,,some one named the fishy....i forgot the name..anyone know what it was?

~D

 

[Masterpiece]

Thanx masterpiece,

that was a great visual review of the map.

And now for my thoughts..

I played last nite and it felt strange/weird/lonely. As many of the critics have pointed out it's not the mesa we all know and love/hate.

I'm going to be addressing the serious building issues and correct the portal effects. Along with that i want to focus on the real enemy/beast of the map. Capping the last control point. I know many of you want me to slap nobuilds in those rooms but i really hate it as an engi when you can only build in 50% of a map,,it sucks. I also hate pooping out of portal just to get face planted into the wall.

b/K may be getting some new loving. I'm going to keep this to myself until after i try out the changes. The Fishy inspired me in a dream.

btw,,some one named the fishy....i forgot the name..anyone know what it was?

~D

No problem dragonhill, all I want is the map to be the best It can be and for this, everybody need to cooperate and help you. If you need help for beta testing or anything, just pm me.

Oh and the name of that fish is Itchyosaur

 

[zombie allah]

i thought an extra exit from the spawn was what was going to be added.


i was wrong.

 

[Dragonhill]

masterpiece,

hehe, ment a formal name (like joe)..not what it is...

silly masterpiece

~D

 

[sittingduck]

On the way to form spawn to point a, needs a "Do not feed the fish"and "No tranclizer crossbows" sign
the second one is a joke I made after goign thou half life 1 the part you meet the fish for the first time...
Mind my spelling.

 

[Masterpiece]

masterpiece,

hehe, ment a formal name (like joe)..not what it is...

silly masterpiece

~D

well, maybe itchy then?

 

[Lance]

The fish's name is Steve, I was there to experience that moment in history

"Hey Dragon"
"Yep?"
"Can we name the fish Steve?"
"Sure."

Not sure who it was that actually came up with the name though.

 

[xosniper]

I played last night for awhile. I really like the map. Heavies can still dominate, pyros can still.....pyroinate? and everyone else can still complain about heavies and pyros.

I think It's a nice change and once everyone gets used to it, it will still be alot of peoples favorite.

 

[Motorcycle Sidecar]

I think masterpiece summed up quite nicely what i felt too when i tried out the map. Granted, i only played for 20 mins or so, and that is likely not enough time to get a good feel since i was used to the old map.

 

[Dragonhill]

The fish's name is Steve, I was there to experience that moment in history

"Hey Dragon"
"Yep?"
"Can we name the fish Steve?"
"Sure."

Not sure who it was that actually came up with the name though.

Then Steve it is!

now i need to get a framed picture of him in the map

maybe replace the kitty?

~D

 

[TheZaw]

NONONON! It is SEnor Chomp Chomp. We must accept that "Steve" will now be called Senor Chomp Chomp. If you can make it so the fish gets a kill, call it senor chomp chomp .

 

[Masterpiece]

NONONON! It is SEnor Chomp Chomp. We must accept that "Steve" will now be called Senor Chomp Chomp. If you can make it so the fish gets a kill, call it senor chomp chomp .

haha yeah, just like the train and it need to make noises too!