team stacking observations and a challenge.

[Candlejack]

Right, any autofill feature would make it so people can't play with their friends unless the teams are equal would make people leave.
And scrambling should always be random or else you would have a system where the top players could never be on the same team and I would not want to always be separated from the people I like to play with.

 

[spoolinEvolution]

Very nice post. As admins we should be joining losing teams and trying to promote the eGO community by showing our desire to give all people in our servers the best experience possible.

I've always wondered, though, if it'd be possible to run a plugin on the server that would auto-shuffle under certain conditions. When team X wins 10 or 15 or 20 games in a row, auto-shuffle, or something like that. If the plugin announced that shuffle would happen in X rounds, people on the losing side would be more likely to tough it out for a few more rounds and wait for the autoshuffle. On the other hand, they'd also probably put no effort into winning knowing they'd risk losing the autoshuffle. And the winning team, if they were say, on offense in dustbowl, might toss the match to keep their awesome team. So, maybe if it didn't announce it it'd be better...but you see what I'm getting at. I don't think it'd be THE SOLUTION we're looking for, there probably isn't one; I think it'd be neat, though.

Yes, admins should be helping the losing team. At least they shouldn't quit the losing team THE SECOND a slot opens up on the winning team. I've seen a few unnamed admins and higher ups do this several occasions and left us guys just hanging. I couldn't believe my eyes.

 

[xosniper]

has auto ever made a post that was under 4 sentences?


<runs>

 

[=[Ga]= AutoDMC]

And scrambling should always be random or else you would have a system where the top players could never be on the same team and I would not want to always be separated from the people I like to play with.

But you see, that's the problem. What we had WAS a random scramble. And when the scramble actually SUCCEEDED, it still wasn't good enough. The of the four good players ended up on the same team ANYWAY.

Here's the key:

- You can have fairness -or-
- You can have freedom of choice.

If you want a "fair" server, where the games are always balanced, you MUST have automatic team assignments, and you MUST have biased scrambles, and you MUST make it so people have a choice: live with the server's decision or leave. No team changes, no going to spec.

But in order to have this fairness you have to give up any freedom of choice you have. Heck, to be really fair, you'd need to restrict class choices based on score.

That's the choice: freedom is blind. If you let me pick my team, you have to accept that I just might decide I WANT TO ROLL THE OTHER TEAM.

Here's the reason why I like my team scramble algorithm. It's the nuclear option, for those cases where the game is 0-20 and the other team refuses to balance. It forces a full and fair scramble on the game.

But we should never scramble for anything less. Decide to switch teams to help the losers, yes. Call in friends to join the server and help your team, yes. Warn and Kick people to avoid the autobalancer by going to spec, indeed? Force everyone to scramble because one side can't get rid of their deadweight?

Even a "random" scramble might move you away from your friends. At least my algorithm is "fair"... if that's what you really want.

I think we should focus on teambuilding and leadership, not the crutch of punishing the successful team for working together.

 

[s3rv0]

has auto ever made a post that was under 4 sentences?


<runs>

Short answer: No.

<3 Auto, you're actually bringing up good points. A lot of people go about the issue with a certain point of view, trying to solve what may be the wrong problem. If you can motivate, guide, and instruct a team and get them to do better, you're only helping accelerate the natural balance* that will occur. If you're on a team with your friends, play against them for a while. My best friend and I often play together, heavy/medic or spy/spy or something fun like that where we can work together. But, if we're on opposing teams, we have a lot of fun messing with each other. Then you'll usually see us being sniper/sniper or spy/pyro or something where we're constantly butting heads.

If you're on the losing team, just be patient, it'll turn around. If you're on the winning team, and you're an admin, consider switching to set a good example for the community. You don't have to, of course. But, again, you don't have to be responsible or caring towards the game and the community, but you have chosen to do so when you put on the eGO tag (by that I mean all e's, eG's, and eGO's). You should really consider representing our community in the best way that you can, and if that's switching teams to help balance, then do it.

In other words: Make the best of bad situations. They'll pass quickly and people will appreciate you for it.



* By this I mean that, if one side is stacked, dead weight will eventually fall off of the losing team because they're sick of losing and have no real commitment to the game or the community (like we admins do, or should as DMC pointed out), and people are switched and/or new people join, and eventually it all balances out.

 

[Lance]

Heheh, I would do something about this, except I'm usually on the losing team, and I'm usually part of the reason I do usually switch to one of my best classes when this happens; if this hasn't been mentioned, it's a good thing to do (unless everyone has the same best class).

And if nothing else, as we all know, not many things are more satisfying than beating a team where most of the people are better than you perseverence is important!

 

[=[Ga]= AutoDMC]

You know what XOSNIPER?!?

TWO SENTENCES!






<runs away>

Dang, that makes three.

FOUR!

ARGH.

 

[Cut Chem!st]

I usually attempt to join the losing team, not much fun when your just winning game after game.

 

[Blender]

We were talking about this thread in the meeting in vent just a few hours ago. I suggested what this thread says, simply move to the winning team, be an eGO set a good example.

I heard other awesome suggestions too, such as making a "team" to join a server that is stacked and help the losing side. And another idea that we should simply rework the votescramble function.

With that said, I really want to make a point to you guys, as a... friendly reminder?

Server stacking is a problem. Everything has problems. I am not saying not to fix it, but you all gotta remember how hard our admins work to fix these problems and you need to think how you, be an (e), (eG), or anything else (even a community member!) can do to help. Also, for anyone who has pup-searched as much as I have, I know and you know that eGO as is stands has the best public servers in TF2, so don't be spoiled!

-Dr. Penguin

 

[micki]

More resets will lead to the indentification of the better players, so they will stack together faster, it was tried already.



Actually the problem is that black_hand is also attracted to certain players, he knows the good players as well as we all do. So sometimes it is not that we do not dare to face him, he just joins us

I ain't afraid of Black_Hand:

 

[Hydrogen Peroxide]

Haven't been able to read all 5 pages, but shade, you bring up a good point, and I myself have been in all of these situations.

I usually give the winning team a 7-streak win, THEN call in the need for a scramble, whether I am on the winning team or not.