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Medic, Pyro, Heavy, Scout, Spy/Sniper. In that order
Next TF2 Class Update?
- Thread starter Wal-Mart Security
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Medic, Pyro, Heavy, Scout, Spy/Sniper. In that order
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I'm rooting for Demo-Soldier, or Demo, Soldier, Engineer. In all cases, I want Engineer to be last.
There's a reason, because as you know, I'm a career Engineer (Scent Tree Down!) so why would I request last class rights?
Simple: When they update Engineer, I want them thinking of ALL THE OTHER UPDATES, and giving me something to work with.
Say it was Demo-Engineer. Then the Soldier pack gives him something that can be used to destroy Sentries faster? I've just had my update nullified by the Soldier update.
And remember, the playerbase is awesome at finding ways to use updated stuff in ways unimagined by the programmers. So I want the playerbase to have time playing with all the new updates before Valve starts thinking "OK, time to help the Texan."
ALSO, I find the Engineer quite excellent, especially as they've been handing out mini updates over time. I can now shoot stickies and make them disappear instead of just scooting them. My dispensers can now give me 60 metal a click. My teleporters can now actually be useful in the 60 seconds that they are not destroyed by being level 3. I'm actually quite happy with the Engie as he stands. The update for Engie would just be cream gravy...
...unless they do it too soon and give my two arch nemesis, Demo and Soldier, toys which make my job harder. I can handle spies, but an updated Soldier or Demo could be pain on a stick.
Finally: any changes to Engineer buildables will require quite a lot of code rewriting, as Sentries, Dispensers, and Teleporters have more in common with intelligent Combine soldiers than updated models and numerical tweaks to damage amounts. So I can't envision the Engineer being part of a multi-class update. I'm willing to bet on "Super Explosion Brothers" followed by "Engineering".
As for what I want on the updates:
SOLDIER:
Heat Seaking Rockets. Clip holds six. Damage is 2/3 regular rocket. No crits. If you hold your crosshairs over an enemy, you get a tone. If you fire with a tone, the rocket will attempt to track. If you fire without a tone, it's just a dumb rocket.
Thompson Submachine Gun. I heard it on this thread, and I like it. It's a nice side-grade for the shotty, and fits his personality. Especially if you make it a cartoony gangster hand-me-down Tommy. Damage and rate similar to Sniper's SMG... except I'd want an accuracy fall off. It's more accurate when you START firing, and loses accuracy the longer you hold the trigger, encouraging small bursts.
Granades. He has em on his bandolier. He should be able to throw those granades with a three second timer that can be cooked. I think Soldier is the only class I'd trust with granades, and only because he'd have to give up his shotty/tommy to have 'em.
Combat Boots. A replacement for the shovel. -25% damage from rocketjumping and falls. -25% damage -10% fire rate when used as a weapon (Think Duke Nukem Boot)... you can kick, but slower and with less damage, but really useful for rocketjumpers.
DEMO UPGRADES:
I'd like to see the "Cheers Mate!" taunt replenish health, say after stickyjumping to a roof.
Pipebomb Replacement: Explosive Shotgun. I saw it on the millitary channel once; a shotgun cartridge that held a small bomb and black powder; it fires in a straight line and explodes on contact. A poor man's Missile Launcher, with a high fire rate and a slight arc (same arc as the bow and arrow).
Stickybomb replacement: Detpack.
Bottle replacement: Claidheamh mor (Claymore). Scottish sword. Similar to the Machete, but with a bit longer range. For the demo who just can't seem to get far away from the battle after laying his traps. Of course, he loses his "Cheers mate" taunt and health replinish.
Engineer Replacement:
Shotty replacement: Winchester .30-.30. All the power of the shotgun pellets put into one hyper-accurate shell, the .30-30 is like a double powered Spy's Revolver. It has no crits (It doesn't need them), but packs a wollop. For those frontline Engineers who need long range accurate firepower to protect sentries from enemies they can't see. Holds 6 shells. Can carry 24 cartridges.
Wrench Replacement: Hammer. The hammer cannot accelerate build times like the wrench, but it CAN build armor on buildings. Like a medic's "Overheal," armor uses 100 metal to add an additional 50% to building HP. Armor can only be repaired by hammers, so don't spam a wrench against a sentry that's lost some of it's armor.
Pistol Replacement: Beer. Beer, like Jarate, can be thrown at somebody to squelch their flames, and can be thrown at cloaked spies to detect their location (they drip wet). An Engineer can hand beers to teammates by tossing it at them. A teammate will accept the beer, which will give them 50% health, up to maximum health (will not overheal). Disguised spies, however, refuse to drink that swill and the beers smash into them. Engineers may carry 2 beers, which recharge like Jarate and Baseballs.
Builder/Demolisher Replacement: Utilizing the recent advances in transistors, the new Builder/Demolisher has room for one extra blueprint and two alternative blueprints:
Extra Blueprint: The Barricade. A wooden barricade with a blinking light; only scouts can leap over it, all other classes have to jump on top to get over. Cannot be sapped, must be destroyed; lucky for the other team, it's 100 HP isn't that hard to overcome. Designed to give that extra bit of area control without wasting valuable equipment.
Sentry Alternate Blueprint: Double Level 1. With the Double Level 1 blueprint, you can build two level 1 sentries that cannot be upgraded. Useful for controlling more square footage, or providing fields of fire. Most useful for frontline Engineers.
Sentry Alternate Blueprint: Tri-Barrel Minigun Sentry. A replacement for Level 3, this sentry sports a third minigun barrel, +50% ammo capacity, and +25% aiming speed. Rockets are nice, but sometimes bullets are better.
There's a reason, because as you know, I'm a career Engineer (Scent Tree Down!) so why would I request last class rights?
Simple: When they update Engineer, I want them thinking of ALL THE OTHER UPDATES, and giving me something to work with.
Say it was Demo-Engineer. Then the Soldier pack gives him something that can be used to destroy Sentries faster? I've just had my update nullified by the Soldier update.
And remember, the playerbase is awesome at finding ways to use updated stuff in ways unimagined by the programmers. So I want the playerbase to have time playing with all the new updates before Valve starts thinking "OK, time to help the Texan."
ALSO, I find the Engineer quite excellent, especially as they've been handing out mini updates over time. I can now shoot stickies and make them disappear instead of just scooting them. My dispensers can now give me 60 metal a click. My teleporters can now actually be useful in the 60 seconds that they are not destroyed by being level 3. I'm actually quite happy with the Engie as he stands. The update for Engie would just be cream gravy...
...unless they do it too soon and give my two arch nemesis, Demo and Soldier, toys which make my job harder. I can handle spies, but an updated Soldier or Demo could be pain on a stick.
Finally: any changes to Engineer buildables will require quite a lot of code rewriting, as Sentries, Dispensers, and Teleporters have more in common with intelligent Combine soldiers than updated models and numerical tweaks to damage amounts. So I can't envision the Engineer being part of a multi-class update. I'm willing to bet on "Super Explosion Brothers" followed by "Engineering".
As for what I want on the updates:
SOLDIER:
Heat Seaking Rockets. Clip holds six. Damage is 2/3 regular rocket. No crits. If you hold your crosshairs over an enemy, you get a tone. If you fire with a tone, the rocket will attempt to track. If you fire without a tone, it's just a dumb rocket.
Thompson Submachine Gun. I heard it on this thread, and I like it. It's a nice side-grade for the shotty, and fits his personality. Especially if you make it a cartoony gangster hand-me-down Tommy. Damage and rate similar to Sniper's SMG... except I'd want an accuracy fall off. It's more accurate when you START firing, and loses accuracy the longer you hold the trigger, encouraging small bursts.
Granades. He has em on his bandolier. He should be able to throw those granades with a three second timer that can be cooked. I think Soldier is the only class I'd trust with granades, and only because he'd have to give up his shotty/tommy to have 'em.
Combat Boots. A replacement for the shovel. -25% damage from rocketjumping and falls. -25% damage -10% fire rate when used as a weapon (Think Duke Nukem Boot)... you can kick, but slower and with less damage, but really useful for rocketjumpers.
DEMO UPGRADES:
I'd like to see the "Cheers Mate!" taunt replenish health, say after stickyjumping to a roof.
Pipebomb Replacement: Explosive Shotgun. I saw it on the millitary channel once; a shotgun cartridge that held a small bomb and black powder; it fires in a straight line and explodes on contact. A poor man's Missile Launcher, with a high fire rate and a slight arc (same arc as the bow and arrow).
Stickybomb replacement: Detpack.
Bottle replacement: Claidheamh mor (Claymore). Scottish sword. Similar to the Machete, but with a bit longer range. For the demo who just can't seem to get far away from the battle after laying his traps. Of course, he loses his "Cheers mate" taunt and health replinish.
Engineer Replacement:
Shotty replacement: Winchester .30-.30. All the power of the shotgun pellets put into one hyper-accurate shell, the .30-30 is like a double powered Spy's Revolver. It has no crits (It doesn't need them), but packs a wollop. For those frontline Engineers who need long range accurate firepower to protect sentries from enemies they can't see. Holds 6 shells. Can carry 24 cartridges.
Wrench Replacement: Hammer. The hammer cannot accelerate build times like the wrench, but it CAN build armor on buildings. Like a medic's "Overheal," armor uses 100 metal to add an additional 50% to building HP. Armor can only be repaired by hammers, so don't spam a wrench against a sentry that's lost some of it's armor.
Pistol Replacement: Beer. Beer, like Jarate, can be thrown at somebody to squelch their flames, and can be thrown at cloaked spies to detect their location (they drip wet). An Engineer can hand beers to teammates by tossing it at them. A teammate will accept the beer, which will give them 50% health, up to maximum health (will not overheal). Disguised spies, however, refuse to drink that swill and the beers smash into them. Engineers may carry 2 beers, which recharge like Jarate and Baseballs.
Builder/Demolisher Replacement: Utilizing the recent advances in transistors, the new Builder/Demolisher has room for one extra blueprint and two alternative blueprints:
Extra Blueprint: The Barricade. A wooden barricade with a blinking light; only scouts can leap over it, all other classes have to jump on top to get over. Cannot be sapped, must be destroyed; lucky for the other team, it's 100 HP isn't that hard to overcome. Designed to give that extra bit of area control without wasting valuable equipment.
Sentry Alternate Blueprint: Double Level 1. With the Double Level 1 blueprint, you can build two level 1 sentries that cannot be upgraded. Useful for controlling more square footage, or providing fields of fire. Most useful for frontline Engineers.
Sentry Alternate Blueprint: Tri-Barrel Minigun Sentry. A replacement for Level 3, this sentry sports a third minigun barrel, +50% ammo capacity, and +25% aiming speed. Rockets are nice, but sometimes bullets are better.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2009
- Messages
- 169
Which one is likely to get the update? Soldier
Which class needs an update? Engineer
Well right now the engi is pretty much one of the weaker classes in the game, considering that his primary weapon, the sentry, hasn't changed at all, which puts a cap on his combat effectiveness.
As people learn to deal with guns, anybody can take one out, and now even their value as a strong deterrent is likely to be eroded as well.
Which class needs an update? Engineer
Well right now the engi is pretty much one of the weaker classes in the game, considering that his primary weapon, the sentry, hasn't changed at all, which puts a cap on his combat effectiveness.
As people learn to deal with guns, anybody can take one out, and now even their value as a strong deterrent is likely to be eroded as well.
Plus people have brought up good points: Demo and Engi would make a great paired pack, like spy/sniper did. They are constantly butting heads with each other, as spy and sniper also are, so it would be sensible that -- if they're going to get tools to counter the other, especially -- the updates be done at the same time for more balance. Soldier is kind of a loner as far as what's left is concerned.
So, perhaps demo/engi next, but engi is one of the most played classes. If I remember right, Valve's sort of been going from least to most played (not exactly, but sort of).
So, perhaps demo/engi next, but engi is one of the most played classes. If I remember right, Valve's sort of been going from least to most played (not exactly, but sort of).
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2009
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- 8
maybe a sentry with flamethrower? or a dispenser that revael spys
PS: engi had already a lil update: upgrade dispenser and tele
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I somewhat disagree!
I think that the other classes are starting to match the Engineer in effectiveness, not the other way around.
Remember, the Engineer has a Heavy Weapons Guy/Soldier combo robot built with a never-miss aimbot, a dispenser that keeps health and ammo and metal at hand, and a teleporter system that can move his most dangerous people right to your front door.
And then Valve allowed me to destroy stickies with my shotty instead of just pushing them away. Insane!
If it wasn't for Ubercharges, Engineers not asleep at their post would be neigh invincible.
Only the Bonk! beverage has had a significant impact against Engineers, as the sentry is dumb enough to track the first thing it sees... including Scouts dancing in front of them Bonked to the gills, and not that soldier over there spamming rockets at it.
And then Valve let me upgrade dispensers and teleporters to make them faster and better. Even more unfair! Heck, if it wasn't for the goodies given to the spy in those ninja updates as well, I'd hate to play ANY class other than Engineer.
Even the new watches: Dead Ringer and Cloak and Dagger... they're only useful against watchful Engineers in the hands of Expert Spies. I have headphones, and I listen for cloak sounds. I have a pistol, and I spam it at anything that moves. I have a shotty, and I pump a few rounds into anyone who walks toward me.
I'm just NOW starting to feel balanced against the other classes. But when Soldier and Demo get their new toys, I'm sure to start feeling the hurt and wanting new toys as well. For the first time since updates began.
And I don't want new toys that make the Spy's job harder. Dispensers that shock spies and sentries with flamethrowers... I've never liked those ideas. First off, one of the few tactics that actually work against attentive Engineers are spys camped on dispensers, and if you are really paranoid about that possibility, spam some bullets around your dispenser and look for flashes.
And if anything, Sentries need MOAR RANGE, not less. You want a flamethrower sentry? Get a Pyro to stand inside a dispenser. I wouldn't want to trade long range bullets and missiles for a little gout of flame
And if the idea is to replace pyro spy checking with a rotating beacon of flame, I'm even more opposed.If there's any class in TF2 that brings home the "Team" aspect, it's Engineer. A lone wolf Engineer trying to defend an area building his own sentry and dispenser, who has pissed all the other Engineers off so much that they won't help him, finds the task neigh impossible. I need a minute and a half to finish all my building alone. In that time, I need my team to keep the enemy at bay. Or I need an Engineer buddy to assist me. And when there's a spy about, I'd really love some pyro spam. In all cases, I don't want that team dependence to be dropped. Engineer is so useful BECAUSE he is a credit to team; but a Lone Engineer is a hard class to play.
ONE LAST THING: I want an achievement for turtles. Call it "Slow And Steady." You get it for standing next to your dispenser for five minutes. Even though I hate turtling, it must be done.
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Im thinking double Soldier/engi.
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demo/engi update. I'm almost certain of it after the hints from the spy/sniper.
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- Jan 18, 2009
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I heard it will be Soldier. The rocket will do more damage, but you can't rocket jump with it. Instead you just hurt yourself.
It's all rumor though...
It's all rumor though...
I think that a soldier update is just gonna be boring, cause they're probably just gonna make small modifications to the current rocket launcher, then a new melee weapon and maybe a funny 2nd weapon.
A demo update however could be interesting, i think the demo is gonna be more changed, with some cool new weapons.
But the engie...and engie update would KICK ASS!. As earlier stated i would like the new melee weapon to be a guitar (as seen on the "Meet the Engineer" video. Some funny new additions to the sentry would also be enjoyable, perhaps something against spies.
A demo update however could be interesting, i think the demo is gonna be more changed, with some cool new weapons.
But the engie...and engie update would KICK ASS!. As earlier stated i would like the new melee weapon to be a guitar (as seen on the "Meet the Engineer" video. Some funny new additions to the sentry would also be enjoyable, perhaps something against spies.
