The e's job

[dan.walker]

I popped in for the ending of the "e orientation", and managed to hear this question: (text shamelessly stolen from GinjaNinja's wonderful notes)

What do I do when I'm on a team with no admins?
You should use admin chat to talk to contact an admin (yes "e"s can use admin chat: push "u" (team talk) then type "@<text>" and any admin on the server can see it).

Does this mean I've been doing it all wrong? I've always tried to keep the peace on any team I was on (assuming there was no admin on the team) without a second thought. Most of the time people just have a slip-of-the-tongue, or simply didn't read the rules and just automatically accepted them. In most of these cases, a polite warning is more than enough to solve the problem, and it didn't seem necessary to bring an admin into the situation. On those times when people, rather than realizing they accidentally broke the rules, decide that either the rules, or yours truly, are stupid beyond comprehension, it's rarely a problem to find an available admin and get him to remedy the situation with a swift kick to the behind.

Should I just be doing nothing at all (beyond admin chat/vent) if there is an admin anywhere in the server? I know I've seen several times (especially in the dust server) where there have just been too many punks spread out over both teams for one admin to deal with it in a timely manner. I've rarely hesitated to step in and try to get at least a few of them under control, because it seemed to me that it was my job to be helping out the G's and O's as much as possible when I could.

I've always thought that I had kept a reasonable line for when to do pseudo-admin in the server. I've done my level best to let the admins do their thing and not get in their way when punks started to rear their ugly heads, while still trying keeping the foul play to a minimum. I tend to be very conservative about warning when there is an admin on, because it doesn't look very professional when we have three guys all trying to warn on person about their language at the same time. In my opinion that makes us look uncoordinated and a confused.

I suppose I somewhat understand where this came from though, I know I've seen several e's (I won't name names), who had pretty clearly not read (or at least not understood) all the sticky's and weren't behaving as...politely...as they should have been. This problem may easily be worse in the TF2 and CS:S divisions (there were mostly people from those two divisions in the meeting), so from that perspective I can certainly understand where it came from. If you have new people running around yelling at pubs because they accidentally broke the rules once, that is a big problem.

I don't mean to put myself on a pedestal here. I'm not trying to say "hee hee, I'm better than all you other e's. I should be warning people while you guys just sit there and do nothing!" That's not my goal at all. I'm just trying to make sure that I haven't been unintentionally stepping out of line. eGO servers were some of the first I ever played on in Insurgency, and the fact that everybody in the clan always seemed friendly, while still maintaining order kept me coming back, and eventually drew me in. I don't want to be doing something which would harm that image.

 

[BloodyBunny]

It is understandable if a single admin is being swamped by lots of people cursing but usually the case is (At least it used to be in css) where someone said one thing and EVERY e in the server would hit their bind for someone to watch the language or just type in "language" in chat and it would get really repetitive and made some of the admins angry because of this. So in css we implemented the policy of e's not warning because of this.

 

[dan.walker]

It is understandable if a single admin is being swamped by lots of people cursing but usually the case is (At least it used to be in css) where someone said one thing and EVERY e in the server would hit their bind for someone to watch the language or just type in "language" in chat and it would get really repetitive and made some of the admins angry because of this. So in css we implemented the policy of e's not warning because of this.

Ahh. As I think I said somewhere in the original post (even I am too lazy to read it all again), I certainly understand how it is annoying to have a bunch of people warning the same pub for the exact same infraction. That's unprofessional and uncalled for - especially with one (or more) admin(s) on the team. One infraction shouldn't garner more than one warning.

As far as I can tell, there isn't any such policy in the INS division (in fact, the how to deal with punks thread even gives pointers on how to warn). Perhaps there should be either a seperate sticky, or better yet, a bit more detail in the existing sticky about when an e should be warning people.

 

[Hypno Toad]

there you go dan... i know i have been working my way through all the eGO "legal" garben as it were. i was a admin for moderate lvl clan on a game called space invaders for about 6 months because our original left but its a hard burden to bear, and as difficult as it may seem once you get the understanding of it.. it kinda just flows.. im trying to get what i can out of learning from everyone i can.. and it does help for those e's to find out by asking questions.. i mean the old saying goes "the only dumb question, is the one you never ask"

 

[gen-ig]

Heres my opinion- if you are the only EGO member on the server, then I fully believe in E's warning for language and rule breaking. If you need to warn more than once, you should get an admin.

What I don't like to see is e's commenting on rule breaking or asking people to change their name when an eG or eGO is on the server. A simple psay to an admin will suffice. Sometimes when there is one admin and many E's, the E's will send the wrong message or just confuse the player. If there are too many rule breakers (As you mention)- Don't worry the EGO will (should) first handle it either with silences, then warnings for all, and maybe some kicks. If they really need help, they will get it.


So to just basically go over when an e should warn:

Only when the E is on the server with no admins.
1. When basic rulebreaking occurs either remind the player of the server rules in all chat or a psay. If this behavior continues (As some know E's have no admin) contact an eG or eGO via ventrilo, steam, or the forum. Take a status and get the offenders steam ID in case the player disconnects immediately after admin connects, but later decides to return. Remember to finally take a condump.


Hacking
Ok the #1 issue I run into is E's with either questions about hacking or accusing someone.
-NEVER Accuse someone of hacking in allchat. Ever. I will kick you for that, and I warn or silence pubs for hackusations.
-If you are alone on the server and you suspect a hacker
1. Start a demo (console-->record filenamehere).
1.5 Take a status
1.6 Take a screenshot (Or several)
0.5 Get an Admin ASAP

-If there are admins on the server but they are not noticing. Take a demo anyways, and then get on ventrilo. The admins could be afk or not seeing your psay's. (Remember, cause you psay'd then, not allchatted them....right?)

 

[Ice hearted killer]

think gen got the point there, e's aren't their to enforce the rules as you don't the power to do so that doesn't mean that you cant help in enforcing them by telling an admin just don't do it your self.
when your doing a demo its record "suspected hackers name here (with quotes)" then when you think you have enough evidence type stop in console and it will tell you the size and frames then you just go to the request ban forum and email the demo in and make a ban request
i think that about covers it.

 

[Ratfire]

I fully believe in E's warning for language and rule breaking. If you need to warn more than once, you should get an admin.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. No one should be "admining" at an e level, but I'll certainly request e's to monitor their team if I'm the only admin on the server since it's hard to watch both sides and you can monitor all of voice chat.

You're exactly where you need to be Dan, if you can diffuse a potential situation with nothing more than a quick suggestion that's great.

 

[Ice hearted killer]

but I'll certainly request e's to monitor their team if I'm the only admin on the server since it's hard to watch both sides and you can monitor all of voice chat.

that is some thing i think we all do.

 

[Haggus McGee]

For me, the best thing es can do when an admin might not see dead or team chat is just admin chat the offence when they see it, quoting the text. it's better than doing a warning themselves and lets the admin know what the offence is immediately, and so can be dealt with apropriately.

For TF2 only: don't be afraid to just ask an admin to pchat you for a private chat by saying in teamchat:
@ please pchat me

and we shall get to you right away, so that everything said in allchat is private between you and the pchating admin.

 

[Ice hearted killer]

For TF2 only: don't be afraid to just ask an admin to pchat you for a private chat by saying in teamchat:
@ please pchat me

and we shall get to you right away, so that everything said in allchat is private between you and the pchating admin.

p chat is a really useful tool, and all admins have it except us... but we have steam chat to do that

 

[Viktum]

good job dan on posting this for e's to see. The ones who missed the meeting i recommend them reading this.

 

[Plunkett]

wow, dan just threw down haha

 

[NiMiK]

Good stuff dan! I'm glad someone brought this up. Thanks for the clarification guys!

 

[The Yeti]

Heres my opinion- if you are the only EGO member on the server, then I fully believe in E's warning for language and rule breaking. If you need to warn more than once, you should get an admin.

What I don't like to see is e's commenting on rule breaking or asking people to change their name when an eG or eGO is on the server. A simple psay to an admin will suffice. Sometimes when there is one admin and many E's, the E's will send the wrong message or just confuse the player. If there are too many rule breakers (As you mention)- Don't worry the EGO will (should) first handle it either with silences, then warnings for all, and maybe some kicks. If they really need help, they will get it.


So to just basically go over when an e should warn:

Only when the E is on the server with no admins.
1. When basic rulebreaking occurs either remind the player of the server rules in all chat or a psay. If this behavior continues (As some know E's have no admin) contact an eG or eGO via ventrilo, steam, or the forum. Take a status and get the offenders steam ID in case the player disconnects immediately after admin connects, but later decides to return. Remember to finally take a condump.


Hacking
Ok the #1 issue I run into is E's with either questions about hacking or accusing someone.
-NEVER Accuse someone of hacking in allchat. Ever. I will kick you for that, and I warn or silence pubs for hackusations.
-If you are alone on the server and you suspect a hacker
1. Start a demo (console-->record filenamehere).
1.5 Take a status
1.6 Take a screenshot (Or several)
0.5 Get an Admin ASAP

-If there are admins on the server but they are not noticing. Take a demo anyways, and then get on ventrilo. The admins could be afk or not seeing your psay's. (Remember, cause you psay'd then, not allchatted them....right?)

Gen-ig said it. I agree completely. Although I have not had an e interfere with my admin decisions I imagine it would be annoying.

There have been times when something has come up and I've had to leave the server or go afk for an extended period. (Like 30 minutes or so.) If I'm the only admin in the server, I hate to do this. I'll usually ask another admin to come in for a bit and watch the server, but if no one is available (which has been the case twice, if my memory serves me well) I wil ask one of the e's to steam message me if anything comes up. I've had e's alert me of numerous situations that were all dealt with. Ranging from mic spamming to abuisive language. This is very helpful. I really appreciate when an e will tell me that there is either a problem in the server, or that the server is currently unadimed.

"hackusations" <- This is great, I'll try to use that sometime Gen-ig. thanks lol.

 

[gen-ig]

wow, dan just threw down haha

Yeah that was elbows out man. Really good thing to bring up, maybe we should put something in the stickies for E's regarding this.

"hackusations" <- This is great, I'll try to use that sometime Gen-ig. thanks lol.

Yeah probably one of my favorite words. I definitely did not invent that one though.
I would like to restate the importance of that rule though- I don't need pubs and E's complaining about a hacker- its hard enough to calm down pubs, but when a member of EGO is in on it I usually have to kick someone...

I'm awesome

Well he didnt actually say this, but let's just say that he pretty much did. I mean look at this guy, he get's spirit of EGO and then proceeds to school us all.

 

[Hypno Toad]

Well he didnt actually say this, but let's just say that he pretty much did. I mean look at this guy, he get's spirit of EGO and then proceeds to school us all.

lol hes our master...lol..j/k

 

[Leader Bean]

I second Hagus. It really helps in INS, at least, if an e can message the admins if something is said or in text because the text messages fly by really quickly in the heat of the game (literally, some messages fly by in less than 2 sec). Now, we've gotten pretty good at making split second checks in our text box during the game, but it helps nonetheless. However, I usually encourage e's to say something if nothing happens within a few rounds because admins are usually busy trying not to die in game and if we miss something it will take a sec to issue a w/k/b. As well, due to some bugs, the console can get spammed with error messages and admins can't always scroll back easily and read the offence themselves. In that case, we at least know who to keep an eye out for during the rest of the game and try to catch them again. Good stuff!