CoH vs Sc2

which it is better at gameplay and tactical

  • Total voters
    70
Cut Chem!st said:
Again... Starcraft II unit control is HUGE. You need to get flanks, have better positioning, and unit control to win battles. It's a huge part of the game, I'm really tired of all these people saying the units don't require control..

The small little things you have to do with your units takes a ton of skill and tactical decision making, being able to do stutter step micro, tank placement, high ground advantage, blink micro, splitting army, muta micro etc.

People are generalizing the game from seeing a few low level games, or just trying for themselves, massing one unit and 1aing across the map. Sc2 has way more intricate unit control than any game I've seen.
Click to expand...
This.

A kitten dies everytime someone claims that Starcraft is all about massing an army and 1a-moving across the map. Granted, this is true in low level games but as you move higher up the ladder and start watching people like HuK, Kiwikaki, Idra and Cool play it's not about the unit count. It's about compositions and how well you can control them.

Just watch a few of Cools' games from the GSL #1 against.. well anyone but the finals against HopeTorture deserve a special mention for being awesome and you'll see what Starcraft really is about.
 
Cut Chem!st said:
Again... Starcraft II unit control is HUGE. You need to get flanks, have better positioning, and unit control to win battles. It's a huge part of the game, I'm really tired of all these people saying the units don't require control..

The small little things you have to do with your units takes a ton of skill and tactical decision making, being able to do stutter step micro, tank placement, high ground advantage, blink micro, splitting army, muta micro etc.

People are generalizing the game from seeing a few low level games, or just trying for themselves, massing one unit and 1aing across the map. Sc2 has way more intricate unit control than any game I've seen.
Click to expand...

But the actual environment and cover provide as big a factor as they do in CoH. In CoH, you simply will NOT win, ever, if you do not use cover and the terrain.




I have never played a game that came close to the actual tactical use required in CoH. I find SCII and CoH to be of different types of RTS basically as a result of this, as I stated in my first post. CoH is about pure tactics, nothing else. You can beat your opponent with a single unit and good tactics, such as using cover and retreating when advantageous. When you play SCII, do you have to weigh in putting a unit into a ditch where hes covered by small arms fire better but more exposed to indirect fire?


ALL strategy games require unit movement, control, and flanks, and since its a common factor, I do not include it.
 
blackhawksniper said:
But the actual environment and cover provide as big a factor as they do in CoH. In CoH, you simply will NOT win, ever, if you do not use cover and the terrain.




I have never played a game that came close to the actual tactical use required in CoH. I find SCII and CoH to be of different types of RTS basically as a result of this, as I stated in my first post. CoH is about pure tactics, nothing else. You can beat your opponent with a single unit and good tactics, such as using cover and retreating when advantageous. When you play SCII, do you have to weigh in putting a unit into a ditch where hes covered by small arms fire better but more exposed to indirect fire?


ALL strategy games require unit movement, control, and flanks, and since its a common factor, I do not include it.
Click to expand...
There is high ground advantage, using fog of war, xel naga towers to gain some map control. Tactical things like controlling the map. Also you seem to be oversimplifing the unit micro in sc2, it is insanely difficult to a unit to it's full advantage(which you never will be able to do, just get close). Pulling off a three pronged flank in sc2 is way harder with all the dynamics in the game, all the different abilities and units. You need to get a good ling surround by boxing a little group and moving it while getting your banelings into the center of the marines, all at super fast speeds. There are whole classe that teach the strategy of starcraft, day9 is able to talk for an hour each day about something new and exciting in the game because of how dynamic it is (over 200 shows already). Broodwar has been played for 12 years and still isn't figured out. Its just the dynamics of how each race is built and how the game is built that makes it like this. In high level broodwar play the only thing that effects balance is maps, maybe not ditches but things like cliffs in different places, size of the map, ramps, just anything that can be put in a map, so pros train stupid amount of hours on new maps and have to play completely different map to map.
 
to my pov,

SC2 is all mirco and rts sometime plan to attack, you can make ground & air units at anytimes with gas and minieral and give alot provide air support to your teammate.

CoH is tactical,plan and use covers/fire mission,you can make all ground and armored units similiar to starcraft *minieral and gas* *Firepower and fuel gas* to make a armored units.

SC2 Feature:you can able to do zoom in and out and see how the units look like which COH already did before anything. but Blizzard already have zoom in and out for Warcraft 3 which some of you know about it.
Base: you can make at least 2 to more bases in sc2 which it is nice to have though.
Fire Mission: you have to build your own fire supports
Battle Length: short to median
max units you can have is 200*Might be change i dont know* i know sc1 have 200
Balance of Unit:sometime mosty units are rigged or unfair etcs
KIA of the units:like line up formation battle pretty much
*i may or may not mention everything*

CoH:
Covers:your squad units can use the covers like downed trees,sandbag to provide high covers and highest chance to not get KIA*Killed in Action*
the units are balanced it depend what units you going to bring in
Fire mission: you can use Mortars,Rocket,arty strikes on your enemys(mortars and Artilley are buildable for german,UK and american)
Battle Length:can last in hours*my longest game/battle was 2 hours with 4 expert with extra large map*
KIA of units:your unit go prone or courch and shooting at your enemy from long range and it will take a while to kill them
max unit:depend how many points you capture and hold
 
Sailor Chibimoon said:
to my pov,

SC2 is all mirco and rts sometime plan to attack, you can make ground & air units at anytimes with gas and minieral and give alot provide air support to your teammate.

CoH is tactical,plan and use covers/fire mission,you can make all ground and armored units similiar to starcraft *minieral and gas* *Firepower and fuel gas* to make a armored units.

SC2 Feature:you can able to do zoom in and out and see how the units look like which COH already did before anything. but Blizzard already have zoom in and out for Warcraft 3 which some of you know about it.
Base: you can make at least 2 to more bases in sc2 which it is nice to have though.
Fire Mission: you have to build your own fire supports
Battle Length: short to median
max units you can have is 200*Might be change i dont know* i know sc1 have 200
Balance of Unit:sometime mosty units are rigged or unfair etcs
KIA of the units:like line up formation battle pretty much
*i may or may not mention everything*

CoH:
Covers:your squad units can use the covers like downed trees,sandbag to provide high covers and highest chance to not get KIA*Killed in Action*
the units are balanced it depend what units you going to bring in
Fire mission: you can use Mortars,Rocket,arty strikes on your enemys(mortars and Artilley are buildable for german,UK and american)
Battle Length:can last in hours*my longest game/battle was 2 hours with 4 expert with extra large map*
KIA of units:your unit go prone or courch and shooting at your enemy from long range and it will take a while to kill them
max unit:depend how many points you capture and hold
Click to expand...

I've never played CoH so im not going to comment about it.
Sc2 is not all micro. If you have poor macro your opponent will out produce you and over run you. Sure good micro can help when you are close to even army sizes but if its to unbalanced your just gonna get rofl stomped. The camera feature doesnt seem like a valid point imo. Brood war didnt have because it was made 12 years ago so yeah. In Sc2 cover is seen differently its all based on the best positioning and map control. If i can see you coming I'm able to move and react to where your coming from, also if ive got the high ground ill be able to put shots on you with out you being able to attack without vision. Max units isnt a factor to determine anything about a game. O Balance the ever so hard to find balance of units. I'm sure CoH has some units that are considered "rigged or unfair" every RTS has units like that and it takes time to balance it. Sc2 has been out for two months and no its not perfectly balanced yet but its getting there. I wasnt really in the BW scene but im pretty sure it took a while to get balanced. As for the battles like i mentioned earlier Sc2 is more focused on what are you doing to help your forces win. Are you using the right abilities on the right units? Are you focusing down the proper things? Are you microing your army in the right way? Are you continuing to produce while the battle is going on? Were you caught off guard and have units out of position, is your opponent hitting you from multiple angles? As mentioned before this is like comparing Oranges to Apples.

/endwalloftext.
 
Don't remember answering the poll, but it says I said, "Hmm don't know."
Cut Chem!st said:
Wall of Text About Unit Control
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure they say units don't require control because they know that SC spawned the term "zerg rush."

Anyway, I haven't played SCII, only SC, but I'll compare that.
Keep in mind I like both of these games, and I really want SCII.
Company of Heroes
  • I'm still playing it
  • It has automatically executed features such as cover
  • Has an interesting way of resource gathering
  • Does not have a large variety of units
  • It's COMPANY OF HEROES!
Starcraft
  • I'm not currently playing it, but I have it installed.
  • No automatically executed features, figure out things for yourself.
  • Has the "Blizzard" way of resource gathering
  • Has quite a variety of units, with 3 races
  • It's STARCRAFT!
If it was which one I enjoy more, CoH is the winner.
If it was which one has more in-depth strategy, Starcraft wins.

As a side note, I'm absolutely terrible at both :(. But I like the genre so much!
 
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How can u compare a funny little cartoony fictional war in space with the harsh reality of CoH? Tell me or i'll take your head off... :D
 
Rofl @ all the people who say
"well i havent really played starcraft 2 but CoH is better."
???
 
Sailor is asking which is more tactical, to which the answer is CoH by far. SC2 is just spamspamspamspam whereas CoH requires certain things to counter other things and so on and so forth.
 
BloodyBunny said:
Sailor is asking which is more tactical, to which the answer is CoH by far. SC2 is just spamspamspamspam whereas CoH requires certain things to counter other things and so on and so forth.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Thats not even close bloody.... Its the same news in SC2 if you just spamspamspamspam in SC2 then you loseloseloselose in it ;)
SC2 Is all about getting the right counters exanding when you have a chance and pushing out when the time is right and managing micro/macro (I think macro is more important)
CoH Is all about getting the right counters managing your squads (Cover,grenades, adding members to it) trying to control the resource nodes And knowing what to do at what time in the game (Im probably wrong on alot of the CoH ones because Im still kinda new to CoH)

P.S. I have a play both regularly (every other day or so)
 
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Thats other games apm on sc2 apm is not that needed if u know what to do in the right way , koreans got over 200 apm but they still loose to eu ppl going around 150 apm or lower , they do it fast becouse they know what there dooing and also some spamm but since were not talking on the pro lvl why did you bring it up its not like there are tournaments on CoH , sc2 for atleast for the eu there is a novice cup every sunday for ppl from gold and lower leages i take part in it every week and have fun i also have friends in higher leages dosent meant i can cheese them or study/practise with them. I lost track what was i talking about >D
 
JoshSpeed said:
Thats other games apm on sc2 apm is not that needed if u know what to do in the right way , koreans got over 200 apm but they still loose to eu ppl going around 150 apm or lower , they do it fast becouse they know what there dooing and also some spamm but since were not talking on the pro lvl why did you bring it up its not like there are tournaments on CoH , sc2 for atleast for the eu there is a novice cup every sunday for ppl from gold and lower leages i take part in it every week and have fun i also have friends in higher leages dosent meant i can cheese them or study/practise with them. I lost track what was i talking about >D
Click to expand...

Hmm, that was hard to digest. Anyway... the point I'm making is that you can't make living earning 6 figures playing COH. SC is so competitive that it's a national sport. You can study and major in Starcraft in the University of Florida (UF) I'm not even kidding.
 
Played both, own both, and I have to say, CoH is better imo. CoH seems to be sophisticated than sc2. I've realized that sc2 has boiled down to: I can beat this unit with that unit. Over and over and over again. CoH requires a bit more than that. Sure a tank can take out infantry units head on, but if the infantry flank the tank and nade it from behind, they could do much more damage and cripple or destroy the tank. Or I build sandbags to fortify my position, and send fewer units around to flank. CoH requires much more situational awareness than sc2.
BTW, I'm terran :P Generic units ftw!!!!! Marines + Marauders + helions = insta win vs Zerg early on in a game, try it.
 
IDigitalDeadI said:
BTW, I'm terran :P Generic units ftw!!!!! Marines + Marauders + helions = insta win vs Zerg early on in a game, try it.
Click to expand...

If you ever play anyone who is even remotely invested in understanding ZvT and is not a bronze player fresh out of placements you will get roflrolled over so fast you cant even begin to weep those sweet tears of rage which I feast on.

When you say that CoH is far more tactical than Starcraft (I have never played CoH, don't hate on me, just stating my view) I would like to disagree.

Especially in TvT (GSL Code A RO 32, Jinro vs. oGsEnsnare) it becomes critical to have a good placement for your units and in any matchup when approaching the late game to be able to split your army in multiple parts because you need to be able to defend your bases.


But unit placement is the most important thing in the game (in battles), try engaging a Protoss army who is at the bottom of your ramp in a nice spread out arc like so ( and every unit is capable of shooting your army while you are funneling your units down your ramp, being able to shoot with about 1% of the actual units you have and it becomes a slaughterfest.
 
Stormrider^ said:
If you ever play anyone who is even remotely invested in understanding ZvT and is not a bronze player fresh out of placements you will get roflrolled over so fast you cant even begin to weep those sweet tears of rage which I feast on.

When you say that CoH is far more tactical than Starcraft (I have never played CoH, don't hate on me, just stating my view) I would like to disagree.

Especially in TvT (GSL Code A RO 32, Jinro vs. oGsEnsnare) it becomes critical to have a good placement for your units and in any matchup when approaching the late game to be able to split your army in multiple parts because you need to be able to defend your bases.


But unit placement is the most important thing in the game (in battles), try engaging a Protoss army who is at the bottom of your ramp in a nice spread out arc like so ( and every unit is capable of shooting your army while you are funneling your units down your ramp, being able to shoot with about 1% of the actual units you have and it becomes a slaughterfest.
Click to expand...

First off, I don't play bronze players that often. Second, I don't rage :). Third, if my units were on top of a ramp, I would attempt to funnel them down the ramp. I'd move back, baiting the army in, funneling them :)
 
I've changed my position on this.

Company of Heroes is still a fun and challenging game, and Starcraft II (which I have played now) still requires more strategy.
These were my points before:


Ranthus said:
Company of Heroes
  • I'm still playing it
  • It has automatically executed features such as cover
  • Has an interesting way of resource gathering
  • Does not have a large variety of units
  • It's COMPANY OF HEROES!
Starcraft
  • I'm not currently playing it, but I have it installed.
  • No automatically executed features, figure out things for yourself.
  • Has the "Blizzard" way of resource gathering
  • Has quite a variety of units, with 3 races
  • It's STARCRAFT!
Click to expand...
These are my points now.

Company of Heroes
  • I'm not currently playing it, but I have it installed.
  • It has automatically executed features such as cover (less tactical, more action)
  • Has the "Relic" way of resource gathering (provides for faster action)
  • Has a decent number of units, which provides for a little bit of variety. (requires you to think more about what you will do with them)
  • It's COMPANY OF HEROES!
Starcraft II
  • I am currently playing it.
  • No automatically executed features, figure out things for yourself. (more tactical, more action)
  • Has the "Blizzard" way of resource gathering (provides for...awesomeness)
  • Has a really large variety of units, with 3 races (more units is more strategies is better)
  • It's STARCRAFT!

So right now, I like SCII better.
 
They are both wonderful games that have sucked away countless hours of my life, but I don't think that its fair to compare the two because they are both very different in their styles of play. Coh is more about capturing points and keeping a strong hold on those points and controlling squads, while sc2 is more about speed and microing individual units. Both are great games
 
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