For This "Pursue Vents Through Armory"

[byechill]

so i rebel alot and ive see on maps like undertale if you are playing this game and you break the wood on the door you can get to vents. so when ct's see it they are allowed to pursue this through armory...but to me thats giving a chance to t's and they have no other way to get out other than go disco which should be the way ct's should pursue. or through Strafe Jump. to me the point of jb is to rebel or play games and when they have the chance to rebel and the only entrance through that game is armory and its being blocked by ct's pursuing you is hard to beat. i think there should be a rules where ct's cant pursue through armory.



sorry for my bad typing! this was fresh from my brain lol.


thanks from bye!

 

[byechill]

This used to happen on old pg and undertale, when ct’s couldnt go into armory, T would get go in there, lineup a shit ton of guns and just shoot them out of armory into the stack, that was placed dead center in main cells. What happened was, ct’s would always get ****ed because T’s would get guns. Making armory an off-limits are for CT’s is foolish and illogical. Its an ARMORY. If you want to rebel, do the p2k secret, dual berettas secret, mac 10 secret... there so many options, you’re just looking for an easy way to rebel, and to do it every round.
One person shouldnt be able to rebel EVERY round, maybe 5-6 times in a single map, but not every round...

lining guns up, thats unique. that is why we made jb the way it was. those moments are the fun moments. and ct's can hear t's making noises in armory btw so they could pursue it but they dont....but its about the enjoyment right? so if t's arent having fun then they wont play, if the ct's dont get action with rebellers then its not that fun....
i see that you are disliking my stuff which is fair but you are telling me stuff people are already saying bud. thank you guys for your opinions <3

 

[RedDragonKnight]

Never mind the maps, it's the rules that are designed to make it easy to rebel. That's why newer maps have evolved to be more open to give CTs at least a chance to win a round or two every 60 minutes. Despite this evolution of maps Ts still win a good 60-70% of rounds, often before a single game can be played.

Nowadays maps are designed to make rebelling more fun and dynamic instead of simply being designed to make rebelling possible. This means that old strategies of rebelling such as slipping around a corner when a CT isn't watching is more difficult, but it also means that when you do manage to get away you have a lot more options open to you than before.

I don't see how the rules somehow make rebelling easier. The rules are there to improve quality of life of the Ts to ensure they don't sit in cell block playing cell games all day. The rules adopted from pg were not all that different than the ones used by eGO before, outside of the ratio, but the maps are extremely different. I've always been of the opinion that secrets being the only way to rebel is bad design, as it just deletes any chance of newer players being able to rebel until they learn the secret. Then when more and more people know the secret, it just stops becoming a secret, so there's really no reason to even hide it.

No, the defining difference isn't the maps or the rules; it is and will always be the playerbase. The Ts never seem to have the intention of organizing a rebellion, which would almost always work considering the inability for most of the guards to use catwalks or stay more than 15 feet away from the Ts at any given time.

 

[thorgot]

I don't see how the rules somehow make rebelling easier. The rules are there to improve quality of life of the Ts to ensure they don't sit in cell block playing cell games all day. The rules adopted from pg were not all that different than the ones used by eGO before, outside of the ratio, but the maps are extremely different. I've always been of the opinion that secrets being the only way to rebel is bad design, as it just deletes any chance of newer players being able to rebel until they learn the secret. Then when more and more people know the secret, it just stops becoming a secret, so there's really no reason to even hide it.

No, the defining difference isn't the maps or the rules; it is and will always be the playerbase. The Ts never seem to have the intention of organizing a rebellion, which would almost always work considering the inability for most of the guards to use catwalks or stay more than 15 feet away from the Ts at any given time.

The rules are partially to make round organization possible, but some rules like Freeday when Warden dies and requiring suspicion to pursue rebellers are solely to make rebelling easier. But despite the fact that the Ts could easily rebel every round with an organized effort, many rounds end at LR. Part of the reason for this is what you touched upon at the end of your post, which is that some Ts are not interested in rebelling. I must admit I'm often one of these Ts, because I'd rather see the rare round that gets past the first map game go all the way to LR than take the easy opportunities to get a kill and set off a round ending chain reaction. If you're blaming maps for many players preferring ST and LR to rebelling, I'm not sure what you're after. Do you want maps to somehow change what people want out of maps back into what they used to want?

As for secrets being a poor mechanic to rely upon completely, I agree. I think a mixture of obvious vents and weapons and hidden ones is best. Then newer players have a chance like you say while still giving the map depth for veterans. If there are no secrets, veteran rebellers will quickly tire of a new map before getting to know it. Also, good mapmakers these days balance their maps under the assumption that most veteran players will know the useful secrets because that is what ends up happening. When that doesn't happen you get issues caused by OP secrets like the one way glass and 200 hp secret on minecraft.

 

[WaSe]

I'll be honest with you, PG JB is not real JB (By real I mean like any other server). For started, you shouldn't have a 52 slot JB server.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

...

As for secrets being a poor mechanic to rely upon completely, I agree. I think a mixture of obvious vents and weapons and hidden ones is best. Then newer players have a chance like you say while still giving the map depth for veterans. If there are no secrets, veteran rebellers will quickly tire of a new map before getting to know it. Also, good mapmakers these days balance their maps under the assumption that most veteran players will know the useful secrets because that is what ends up happening.

...

Eh, most veteran players aren't playing Jailbreak anymore, unless you mean 2-4 year vets, then maybe. I've been playing since 2008, back when there was one then two maps on our server and it was 44 slots in CS:Source.

Its not really no secrets to learn but the player base and the map mechanics that a lot of 7+ year vets want better. If you have a player base of Ts that willing to rebel as a team or do dumb things its fun, having a CT team thats competent and also fun then its enjoyable rather than on the opposite side of having useless CTs, trying to herd 20-30 Ts plus half of your own CTs together and that becomes frustrating and drains you of energy.

In addition, new map mechanics such as objectives to complete the map over 3-5 rounds (something that I was slowly working on but then well we don't have a tech team to add maps so there was no point to continue to work plus I just got burnt of mapping) and unlocking some cool things or events or forcing the next map as a psuedo-mission completed status, simple objectives such as planting the bomb, or just one or two special rounds that gives a breather to regular rounds but still fit within the narrative of Jailbreak make it fun.

If the only reason they're willing to continue playing is new secrets, then they're not interested in the game mode its self and they have no obligation to continue to play on the server since they 100%'d it in their mind and at best they may wait a few weeks, maybe a few months before no longer playing if nothing new is added. Think of it this way if you played WoW or any MMO: Do you continue to keep playing if you've capped out all your characters and have the best gear and ActiBlizz stops giving you content but your friends still play because theyre not at that level, or do you just quit because there's no new content even though your friends haven't completed all of the content available then?. I've played the same maps and their versions for months at a time before an updated version came along and in the end, its the player base that most people are willing to stick with regardless of the maps.

There were times where I had fun with people I liked such as dunk182, FrazarMan (or just Frazar idk cuz he dont post much if at all), Blackestsoul, Captain Nighthawk, eje007, iamevilbear, Cryptex, frap, RedDragonKnight (when he was fun), @(not legend cuz hes a party pooper), and many many others (sorry if I forgot you) that even just seeing one of them on was a reason to play.

Even if it was on a map that was really not changed for 3, 6, 9, 12 months but still fit the over arching aspect of : Prisoners go rebel and take over the prison; guards dont let the prisoners take over the prison; then people will play it if they liked the flow of the map. There were also many others (@Yehhp, Nick, crc1225, Fistacles , teimyw8, FurtenFur, David (but hes bad), xblade111 , l0l, @tj, MarcoThePotato, MrBoeJangles [or w/e he changed it to], soulOfASinner, _MEGA, NMsniper, and many many others) I enjoyed playing with I came back 2 almost 3 years ago after playing other games than just CSS/CSGO. People are willing to put up with a lot and still have fun based on the social aspect but if the gamemode is nothing what they are used to expecting then that group of players feels alienated or disenfranchised with what it's become.

 

[Conor]

Hey guys

 

[xblade111]

Back in my day we just shot anything standing who needs secrets

 

[thorgot]

You summed up the human experience pretty well there. Things change, and people don't like change. I've also observed JB evolve over the past 10 years, but to me the JB community of today seems more similar to the JB community of 10 years ago than different.

To me it's clear that you don't want maps designed in the fashion that was popular 10 years ago or to create a similar play style, you want the exact same experiences that you experienced back then, complete with the people you listed out.

 

[EpicFlamingos]

I'll be honest with you, PG JB is not real JB (By real I mean like any other server). For started, you shouldn't have a 52 slot JB server.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. What is real JB? Because there are lots of CSGO servers that are very similar to ours.

No, the defining difference isn't the maps or the rules; it is and will always be the playerbase. The Ts never seem to have the intention of organizing a rebellion, which would almost always work considering the inability for most of the guards to use catwalks or stay more than 15 feet away from the Ts at any given time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMJRO5fTSSg
That was us coordinating a whole bunch of Ts to rebel. That was almost 2 years ago. Even back when I first started playing, people rebelled all the time, and it wasn’t spoonfed in the form of easy access to armoury.
God help you if you try and do that kind of rebelling nowadays.

You summed up the human experience pretty well there. Things change, and people don't like change. I've also observed JB evolve over the past 10 years, but to me the JB community of today seems more similar to the JB community of 10 years ago than different.

I disagree completely. Even comparing our jailbreak server player base from now to back when I first started (summer 2016) it’s MUCH different. I’m surprised you don’t think that too considering you were also around back then.
The only that hasn’t changed is people trying to loophole the rules, that will always be the same. But in terms of rebelling, or CTs, or just in general the toxicity and how people act, it’s MUCH different. I know a lot of people who played back then that feel the same way.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

I list those in the first half of people who helped Jail grow back then, as well as being those who I enjoyed playing with (second half were part of this group). Some of maps we had on Jail before its closure we're the 85% the same maps that RDK, Captain Nighthawk, myself, and a few others created and that people enjoyed. A few modifications here and there for the newer players and broader audience that CS grew out to (as well as Volvo breaking everything all the time), but still the maps had similar layouts and play style from back then.

Jail is nothing like it was from then. I load in there, watch for oh about 3 rounds then leave. The player base is radically different today than three years ago, six years ago, or even from 2008 when I started playing.

I want the player base from 2008-2010, that will never happen.

I want the experiences I had from playing with the group of friends I would come to back and the players I enjoyed rebelling or wardening against, but that will never happen.

I want the rules that made it fun for both sides and fun to semi-RP without having people playing TDM or filling the Contest Ban forums with appeals, but that will never happen.

In the end, the maps can remain similar enough to those even 10 years ago, but even when you give those to players they no longer care. They want things to give them an advantage and make it easy for them. They do not want to try and the few that do want a challenge and not having their hands held, wont play this.

I enjoy having CTs stay in CT areas and I enjoy Ts rebelling by sneaking through vents, sneaking off, or just hiding. Its fun to have a challenge from both sides and the maps themselves should do this, not the rules.

The rules are more like guidelines that should shape the player base into something that is in a sense, welcoming to new players, but enjoyable for those veterans.

 

[byechill]

I don't see how the rules somehow make rebelling easier. The rules are there to improve quality of life of the Ts to ensure they don't sit in cell block playing cell games all day. The rules adopted from pg were not all that different than the ones used by eGO before, outside of the ratio, but the maps are extremely different. I've always been of the opinion that secrets being the only way to rebel is bad design, as it just deletes any chance of newer players being able to rebel until they learn the secret. Then when more and more people know the secret, it just stops becoming a secret, so there's really no reason to even hide it.

No, the defining difference isn't the maps or the rules; it is and will always be the playerbase. The Ts never seem to have the intention of organizing a rebellion, which would almost always work considering the inability for most of the guards to use catwalks or stay more than 15 feet away from the Ts at any given time.

thorgot is right. im already bored of rebelling because we dont have new maps yet...it is fun to explore the map and for new players they can get a understanding on how to rebel the RIGHT way. if you learn the map more and more then when you are on ct there shouldnt be an issue. i think secrets are not an issue and make it enjoyable and unique. i find sitting in a marker and having to run up to a ct to kill them with my knife is a bit boring.

 

[byechill]

I list those in the first half of people who helped Jail grow back then, as well as being those who I enjoyed playing with (second half were part of this group). Some of maps we had on Jail before its closure we're the 85% the same maps that RDK, Captain Nighthawk, myself, and a few others created and that people enjoyed. A few modifications here and there for the newer players and broader audience that CS grew out to (as well as Volvo breaking everything all the time), but still the maps had similar layouts and play style from back then.

Jail is nothing like it was from then. I load in there, watch for oh about 3 rounds then leave. The player base is radically different today than three years ago, six years ago, or even from 2008 when I started playing.

I want the player base from 2008-2010, that will never happen.

I want the experiences I had from playing with the group of friends I would come to back and the players I enjoyed rebelling or wardening against, but that will never happen.

I want the rules that made it fun for both sides and fun to semi-RP without having people playing TDM or filling the Contest Ban forums with appeals, but that will never happen.

In the end, the maps can remain similar enough to those even 10 years ago, but even when you give those to players they no longer care. They want things to give them an advantage and make it easy for them. They do not want to try and the few that do want a challenge and not having their hands held, wont play this.

I enjoy having CTs stay in CT areas and I enjoy Ts rebelling by sneaking through vents, sneaking off, or just hiding. Its fun to have a challenge from both sides and the maps themselves should do this, not the rules.

The rules are more like guidelines that should shape the player base into something that is in a sense, welcoming to new players, but enjoyable for those veterans.

you know its not hard to download a map and then play it with your "group of friends"
the player base is fine in my opinion. its harder to use a knife with 20 people than 40. thats why secrets help the t's win, and that is why you dont have to wait 10 minutes because you couldnt hear a command. 60 minutes to play a map and find new areas. you can still have fun if you just think about how you are going to rebel. there are still funny moments where i kill a ct and kill the rest of the ct's. i dont really have anything bad to say but its not as enjoyable because we arent having suggestions and polls like we should to change the game completely. i think these suggestions we make are helping us become better and better. remember we arent trying to make this a skill based for the new players, we are trying to make it fun for everyone and secrets to me help keep the less experienced players become good.
<3

 

[Fistacles]

The culture that is jail is not what it was 10 years ago. The playerbase that it once was, where we had 100 dedicated jail players rather than 2000 "new players" with a few vets sprinkled in, is completely different. The maps are different, the focus of jail itself is different, Its just.. not jail anymore. its mini-games now, not RP. Its about killling people off by going to A B or C and killing off a group of prisoners each time and enjoyment of self, and not the enjoyment of others by goofing off, giving fun orders, and messing around with people on the server who we call friends. Its about being the last alive, not taking a chance and rebelling, and feeling awesome and satisfied when you finally do get that backstab on the warden.

Perhaps its because we are no longer 14-17 year olds with tons of freetime, but now I'm not willing to waste my time being frustrated at all the bullshit. Back then, toxicity was never a problem. Now, i cant go on without hearing someone cursing someone out, or saying something sexist, racist, or bullying others. The culture and atmosphere of present jail is not even close to what it used to be back in source.

I wish there was a way to change it, but unfortunately this new "generation" have a vastly different attitude and idea of what jail should be, and theres just no going back. I Guess we just grew out of it.

Im sure im just reiterating a lot of what has been said, but I just felt like ranting.

 

[Chaonyx]

The culture that is jail is not what it was 10 years ago. The playerbase that it once was, where we had 100 dedicated jail players rather than 2000 "new players" with a few vets sprinkled in, is completely different. The maps are different, the focus of jail itself is different, Its just.. not jail anymore. its mini-games now, not RP. Its about killling people off by going to A B or C and killing off a group of prisoners each time and enjoyment of self, and not the enjoyment of others by goofing off, giving fun orders, and messing around with people on the server who we call friends. Its about being the last alive, not taking a chance and rebelling, and feeling awesome and satisfied when you finally do get that backstab on the warden.

Perhaps its because we are no longer 14-17 year olds with tons of freetime, but now I'm not willing to waste my time being frustrated at all the bullshit. Back then, toxicity was never a problem. Now, i cant go on without hearing someone cursing someone out, or saying something sexist, racist, or bullying others. The culture and atmosphere of present jail is not even close to what it used to be back in source.

I wish there was a way to change it, but unfortunately this new "generation" have a vastly different attitude and idea of what jail should be, and theres just no going back. I Guess we just grew out of it.

Im sure im just reiterating a lot of what has been said, but I just felt like ranting.

Well you do rant the best

 

[Mayhem Death]

Well, I think this post has gone for long enough (since we have deviated a bit from the main point).

I enjoy reading everyones opinions though! Of course a server (especially Jail) cannot please every single player since everyone is different. The fact about the playerbase judging how the gamemode is played is one I extremely agree with. Also, if Guards can help it try not to break vents that are not opened already. I know it isn't a rule, but it is frowned upon. So if you can help it, don't open vents as a Guard.

Hopefully that makes sense.