Sorry for the essay of a post, and I realize it can be a bad idea to question the rules- I just want you to hear me out and allow a little bit of discussion. I will not bring any of this onto the server- when I am playing I intend to do as the admins ask and I respect that.
Again, I realize that on the strand server, debate of the rules is out the question. Still, how to enforce spawncamping/killing rules has been frequently debated on the server, so it would be helpful to address concerns outside of the threat of admin action. If nothing else, this thread can be used to clarify explicitly what can and cannot be done within the rules.
I understand on most maps, there is no reason to be attacking/camping spawn if you are going for objectives, but on strand axis has full ability to shoot and nade allies in spawn, and important routes to objectives for the allies go past axis spawns. The rule I have heard is no spawncamping single-exit spawns, so that would avoid punishing the axis, leaving only what allies can do near axis spawns.
First off: axis right spawn (the one near cow field). Running past it, axis can easily shoot you from behind the boxes, so in self-defense, it seems reasonable for allies to be able to shoot past the boxes when going by. There is a corner in there that axis can hide behind, so you can quickly get a gray area between defending yourself from one axis popping in and out, and outright spawncamping. Another issue with this spawn is that axis mg's set up in there sometimes. When axis mgs do that, I feel compelled to use a grenade, despite having to throw it into their spawn. Of course, I don't always want to check for an mg and risk being shot, so it can be hard to avoid throwing nades in there regularly if mgs have been using that spot recently.
Middle spawn (with the ladder near radio): going up the ladder is not the only exit, so camping the ladder door should not be an issue. But, it makes sense for allies to camp the stairs near steam room, which would be cutting off the other exit. In other words, you can end up with both exits being camped. Again, if axis are stepping in and out, throwing nades, etc. it can be hard to figure out how much you have to handicap yourself to avoid breaking the rules.
Left spawn (under field-side bunker): Going through the hallway here is a common route for allies going between clearing the bunker and heading to objectives. If I am going through there, I will defend myself against any axis that spawn. Recently that involved using an mg rambo-style, shooting into the spawn door that opened next to me- it was reflexive (I did apologize to the two I killed). Of course, an ally could run between the bunker and field bunker or something, repeatedly using that hallway. At what point does this become spawn camping? If I want to avoid shooting into spawn doors, I would want to camp by one of the ladders, shoot them as they come out, then go by. If I'm carrying an mg, defending myself may involve setting it up, if only briefly. Where's the boundary between trying to get through there alive and spawncamping?
I've seen allies win without spawncamping, I've seen axis win despite allies spawncamping. If I were running a strand server, due to the more complicated spawn situation, I would allow spawncamping, and encourage axis to communicate when it happens. If you know where a spawncamper is, it is not difficult for a teammate elsewhere to help, or to simply use nades to deal with him yourself. I do not advocate spawncamping, but it simplifies the rules.
Another concern is that some admins take action based on what things look like, while other admins try to take action based on intent. I have a hard time knowing what to do, as I might quickly get threatened with a ban after running through left spawn (and receive the ban if I try to explain I wasn't trying to camp), while some admins wait for clear intent before taking action. I've been admin on servers, I realize it is no fun to stop playing and play police, but measured leniency can help defuse situations and avoid kicking people who don't mean to be disruptive.
The spawncamping issue gives you three general solutions: effectively enforce that the allies cannot always defend themselves, leave things ambiguous by having admins decide what counts as spawncamping (where we seem to be right now), and avoid the issue by allowing spawncamping.
There is no way for an allied spawncamper to kill me where I don't first have the opportunity to kill him with a nade and a bullet, but I have died plenty of times as an ally in the water with zero ability to defend myself. I do not agree with allowing one-sided spawncamping simply because it can only be enforced for one team. Hopefully you can clarify the rules with elaboration that addresses my above concerns. As I have said, I do not advocate spawncamping, but I feel the rules against it cause more problems than they solve.
Again, I realize that on the strand server, debate of the rules is out the question. Still, how to enforce spawncamping/killing rules has been frequently debated on the server, so it would be helpful to address concerns outside of the threat of admin action. If nothing else, this thread can be used to clarify explicitly what can and cannot be done within the rules.
I understand on most maps, there is no reason to be attacking/camping spawn if you are going for objectives, but on strand axis has full ability to shoot and nade allies in spawn, and important routes to objectives for the allies go past axis spawns. The rule I have heard is no spawncamping single-exit spawns, so that would avoid punishing the axis, leaving only what allies can do near axis spawns.
First off: axis right spawn (the one near cow field). Running past it, axis can easily shoot you from behind the boxes, so in self-defense, it seems reasonable for allies to be able to shoot past the boxes when going by. There is a corner in there that axis can hide behind, so you can quickly get a gray area between defending yourself from one axis popping in and out, and outright spawncamping. Another issue with this spawn is that axis mg's set up in there sometimes. When axis mgs do that, I feel compelled to use a grenade, despite having to throw it into their spawn. Of course, I don't always want to check for an mg and risk being shot, so it can be hard to avoid throwing nades in there regularly if mgs have been using that spot recently.
Middle spawn (with the ladder near radio): going up the ladder is not the only exit, so camping the ladder door should not be an issue. But, it makes sense for allies to camp the stairs near steam room, which would be cutting off the other exit. In other words, you can end up with both exits being camped. Again, if axis are stepping in and out, throwing nades, etc. it can be hard to figure out how much you have to handicap yourself to avoid breaking the rules.
Left spawn (under field-side bunker): Going through the hallway here is a common route for allies going between clearing the bunker and heading to objectives. If I am going through there, I will defend myself against any axis that spawn. Recently that involved using an mg rambo-style, shooting into the spawn door that opened next to me- it was reflexive (I did apologize to the two I killed). Of course, an ally could run between the bunker and field bunker or something, repeatedly using that hallway. At what point does this become spawn camping? If I want to avoid shooting into spawn doors, I would want to camp by one of the ladders, shoot them as they come out, then go by. If I'm carrying an mg, defending myself may involve setting it up, if only briefly. Where's the boundary between trying to get through there alive and spawncamping?
I've seen allies win without spawncamping, I've seen axis win despite allies spawncamping. If I were running a strand server, due to the more complicated spawn situation, I would allow spawncamping, and encourage axis to communicate when it happens. If you know where a spawncamper is, it is not difficult for a teammate elsewhere to help, or to simply use nades to deal with him yourself. I do not advocate spawncamping, but it simplifies the rules.
Another concern is that some admins take action based on what things look like, while other admins try to take action based on intent. I have a hard time knowing what to do, as I might quickly get threatened with a ban after running through left spawn (and receive the ban if I try to explain I wasn't trying to camp), while some admins wait for clear intent before taking action. I've been admin on servers, I realize it is no fun to stop playing and play police, but measured leniency can help defuse situations and avoid kicking people who don't mean to be disruptive.
The spawncamping issue gives you three general solutions: effectively enforce that the allies cannot always defend themselves, leave things ambiguous by having admins decide what counts as spawncamping (where we seem to be right now), and avoid the issue by allowing spawncamping.
There is no way for an allied spawncamper to kill me where I don't first have the opportunity to kill him with a nade and a bullet, but I have died plenty of times as an ally in the water with zero ability to defend myself. I do not agree with allowing one-sided spawncamping simply because it can only be enforced for one team. Hopefully you can clarify the rules with elaboration that addresses my above concerns. As I have said, I do not advocate spawncamping, but I feel the rules against it cause more problems than they solve.
