why all the rap hate?

OSVG said:
First note. If you are not willing to listen to some non mainstream hip hop gangster rap or whatever, then you are giving other forms of rap a chance. It would be like me saying I hate rock because I heard a couple emo/screaming bands. Success breeds hatred.

Second, if Rap is not music, then any music with choruses repeated elements is not music.

--Anecdote time--

I used to 'hate' rap, because all I knew of it was the mainstream gangster rap. I also 'hated' it because surprisingly it is easy to follow bandwagon hate. But around 2 and a half years ago I got into nerdcore (more specifically the Adventures of Duane and BrandO).

Strong Language warning
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAdventuresOfDnB#p/u/23/QUEO9Mfmn4M

I said to myself that it is different, separate from rap a special case. I then decided perhaps I am being too cynical, not looking far enough. So I asked myself what about rap I didn't like. It typically boiled down lyrics and subject matter. Really If I couldn't stand repeated elements in a song then how could I enjoy any music. Shoot How could I like and video game music. The Overworld theme from Supermario is a most 45 sec long but I could listen to it over and over. A catchy beat is great, distinguishable base lines and drums beats are really fun to listen to. To use my best example, Back in Black by AC DC, I don't think of the solos in the song I think of the chorus parts. So I decided to give rap more of chance.

I did begin to notice the stuff that had kept me away when looking for good hip hop. I eventually stumbled upon the Flobots. Their music is rap, but it isn't the mainstream, and it has a message (whether or not you agree is not the point). I really would like for all the rap haters to listen to these couple of songs. If yous till hate all rap then it is you opinion.

The first selection is what I am using as probably the best 'I really hope to get people to at least see the light at the end of the tunnel.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ZzaXxK_L0

The second is my personal favorite and I want to make a frag video of it (but that is of no consequence).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLUX0y4EptA

--/Anecdote time--

Some forms of music aren't for everyone. I know a lot of people who hate Country music. They don't go around saying country is not music simply because the way it sounds. They understand the artistic talent required to make country. I would at least hope that you understand these "musicless" rapper do have musical talent. I mean if they are rolling the dough... they are doing something right.

tl;dr
1st you aren't contributing much by not evaluating others posts

2nd Music in general is a game of opinions. You cannot simply something isn't music because it doesn't appeal to you

3rd A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

oh wait...
Click to expand...

I find the first song very boring. And the second is only okay. Just eh.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrevUFE_yGA[/ame]

That's a great song that has more than just good guitar, one of my personal favorites.

Another from Megadeth:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hVqpjZ8qWM[/ame]

Ahh, another favorite. Love the drums in that song. And Marty Friedman kicks ass on guitar in that song.

If you don't think that's understandable, then please troll elsewhere.


E/ Nerdcore is okay. Much better than more mainstream rap. Mostly because its about video games. >.>
Still too much swearing for my liking, though.
 
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Nightmare490 said:
I hate rap

1. Most lyrics are terrible
2. beats and sounds are horrible
3. almost every rap is similar to another rappers rap
4. they walk with their pants on the ground pants on the ground lookin like fools with their pants on the ground.
Click to expand...

1. Obviously you have never listened to anyone but solja boy
2. WHO DO YOU LISTEN TO?!
3. Not true, while most main stream artists will speak on "money, cars ,clothing" ect. This is only the mainstream part of the album your hearing, if you actually did your homework and listend to say, more than one rap song, you'd realise that each artist has a lot of differnt lyrics.
4. Again main steam, also thats the culture dictating that.
 
Ranthus said:
[Edit]
The non-sidetracking version:
Rap is extremely simple music. That's why.
Click to expand...

I've made beats before, im not great. It takes a lot of talent to make a beat that sounds good and flows. Are you sure you know what goes into making a beat / song?
 
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue3M_kxb85Y[/ame]
im assuming 3/4 of everyone knows this song by heart
they either have this song in some form on there ipod/iphone or listened to it on MTV or the radio
 
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Ph?bus said:
I find the first song very boring. And the second is only okay. Just eh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrevUFE_yGA

That's a great song that has more than just good guitar, one of my personal favorites.

Another from Megadeth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hVqpjZ8qWM

Ahh, another favorite. Love the drums in that song. And Marty Friedman kicks ass on guitar in that song.

If you don't think that's understandable, then please troll elsewhere.


E/ Nerdcore is okay. Much better than more mainstream rap. Mostly because its about video games. >.>
Still too much swearing for my liking, though.
Click to expand...


To me those songs are dull, how can enjoy that? Wheres the life to the song!?
 
Noise964 said:
i listened to it, gave it some thought, just not my kind of music i guess :|
Click to expand...

But you can't deny the words were clear and easy to understand, just like every music genre, metal has many many sub-genres.
 
killerkills said:
I don't even know how rap can be considered as "music". Music needs to have musical notes, chords, and tone. Rap is just talking with a beat and usually monotone. The heart and soul of the lyrics really speaks out when there are musical notes, not just yelling to a beat. A lot of people do not like monotone thats for sure. Not to mention all of the swear words that rappers abuse. They really use them too much and isn't needed.
Click to expand...

Lmao this just tickles me, a beat is made up of musical notes, chords, and different tones, have you ever made or seen one made lol. Not to mention a Rap Producer also does many rock and even classical albums (Rick Ruben, Dr.Dre, Timberland) Obviously you have NOOOOOOOOOOO idea what you are talking about, and Swear words .... sigh, most metal is about death but I love metal and rock and rap and classical I listen to all, anything I can relate too and i just happen to relate to rap more. But I really hate how people bash it because they don't like it if you dont then fine but shhh on are threads that is all.
 
Byakuya said:
To me those songs are dull, how can enjoy that? Wheres the life to the song!?
Click to expand...

The pure skill the band has in general? Duh. Lol
But I get what you're saying. Here's another song with more emotion, but it strays from 'true' metal, and into the trash metal subgenre.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVMvART9kb8&feature=av2n[/ame]
 
Byakuya said:
I've made beats before, im not great. It takes a lot of talent to make a beat that sounds good and flows. Are you sure you know what goes into making a beat / song?
Click to expand...

Yes, actually. It's very hard. But having several measures of rhythm loop for a quarter of the song and several different looping measures for the other quarters, which is pretty much what most rap I've heard is, is still simple. Having music that shows some basic, enjoyable rhythm is effort, but not much in comparison to many other musical pieces.
Just think about it. Most music I've heard consists of rhythm, intonation, dynamics, articulation, and possibly other things I may have missed. Take out intonation, dynamics, and most of articulation, which is now limited to just accents. You have most rap that I've heard.
But in the end, it's just that I actually like having intonation and articulation (dynamics are necessary, but I won't elaborate further here) in my music. As in constantly varying notes, as opposed to a pattern.

[Edit]
Please notice the phrase "Most rap I've heard"
It's not a blanket statement on all rap, just the bad rap.
 
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Ph?bus said:
I find the first song very boring. And the second is only okay. Just eh.
Click to expand...
Yeah I was gearing that more towards people who say rap isn't music. I don't mind people saying they dislike it for what it is, and I understand other forms of music have more going on and are more appealing to other. I am editing my post now.

I don't give a rat's arsenal as to whether you like rap, I just don't like people who prejudge it based on their couple of bad experiences with it, and then say it isn't music. Which is basically what you have been arguing with some other about metal.

To all the rap haters out there, rap is music; it takes musical talent to make lyrics fit with a beat. I don't care if you don't like rap, but please stop being stubborn and admit it is music. Would you go a member of a drum core and say "you can't play music. All you do is make beats." ? I'm not fighting that your hate it; I am fighting that you give it no credit.
 
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OSVG said:
Yeah I was gearing that more towards people who say rap isn't music. I don't mind people saying they dislike it for what it is, and I understand other forms of music have more going on and are more appealing to other. I am editing my post now.

I don't give a rat's arsenal as to whether you like rap, I just don't like people who prejudge it based on their couple of bad experiences with it, and then say it isn't music. Which is basically what you have been arguing with some other about metal.

To all the rap haters out there, rap is music; it takes musical talent to make lyrics fit with a beat. I don't care if you don't like rap, but please stop being stubborn and admit it is music. Would you go a member of a drum core and say "you can't play music. All you do is make beats." ? I'm not fighting that your hate it; I am fighting that you give it no credit.
Click to expand...

At no point has anyone said metal isn't music.
And about your drum core comment, I hate drummers like that. Well, drummers that play one drum or quads. Those just sound annoying. But back to snare drummers. OOH LOOK AT ME I CAN PLAY ONE NOTE. -.-
 
<--- is a drummer (kit) just for reference. So yeah, I'm pro-drummer, and its the reason I am angst about beat making.

I agree with Phobus.
 
Ph?bus said:
I find the first song very boring. And the second is only okay. Just eh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrevUFE_yGA

That's a great song that has more than just good guitar, one of my personal favorites.

Another from Megadeth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hVqpjZ8qWM

Ahh, another favorite. Love the drums in that song. And Marty Friedman kicks ass on guitar in that song.

If you don't think that's understandable, then please troll elsewhere.


E/ Nerdcore is okay. Much better than more mainstream rap. Mostly because its about video games. >.>
Still too much swearing for my liking, though.
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Hell yeah Megadeth. Not a fan of metal but I like them and Iron Maiden.
 
im more Metal, sometimes listen eminem,tupac,snoop the 90's rap...
 
TremendousLion said:
<--- is a drummer (kit) just for reference. So yeah, I'm pro-drummer, and its the reason I am angst about beat making.

I agree with Phobus.
Click to expand...

I can play teh drums, too! :P
Actually, I can play a lot of metal beats. It's funny watching a snare drummer trying to play the whole kit when the guitar is playing faster than 130bpm. Hahaha.
But, I am a bassist. And I like all kinds of bass, too, not just metal. Blues, funk, classical, etc. I <3 bass! ^_^
 
I'd like to point out that the definition of music has been a debate for awhile now and it won't be solved in this thread. Some people like rap, some people hate it. Some people consider it music and some don't. In the end it is a matter of opinion and nobody is wrong either way.

I personally used to dislike rap and would never even consider listening to it; however, when I was about 12 I heard an Eminem song. Granted he first caught my interest because a guy I was crushing on was into him...

When I started listening to Eminem it was like a whole new world opened up to me. Not just in music but in the realities of life. He didn't just sit there bashing women, homosexuals, and making racist remarks (not saying you won't find those in his songs) but he sang/spoke about things that too many people in this world have to deal with on a daily basis.

His own life is reflected in his songs.

I personally find his rap to simply be a more direct approach to expressing what too many people are afraid to say - especially when you have the limelight.

Oh no, I might say something wrong and make someone mad...so I won't have any political views at all let alone speak about something taboo.

I will admit I do not avidly seek out any other rappers so I can only talk about Eminem's music but I think some of you whom have never heard him but still insist wrap is bad should check out some of his songs. If you want a more specific list let me know because I can name ones without too much stuff listed in them that are vulgar/drug related/blah blah...but still have a message. One of my favorites is "like toy soldiers" which I'd suggest the video on youtube rather than just the lyrics.

Now - I feel I really must point this out since someone mentioned how eGO members probably don't like songs due to them being filled with racism and such in them.

It's a song and it does not really reflect most of Eminem's views.

Heck, he's sang with Elton John for Pete's sake. xD

It's more or less part of the rap genre I suppose.

When I hear Eminem sing - even if it is a song filled with profanity and whatever...it makes me feel better and have hope for the world since even he has hope despite all he's been through.
 
Ph?bus said:
I can play teh drums, too! :P
Actually, I can play a lot of metal beats. It's funny watching a snare drummer trying to play the whole kit when the guitar is playing faster than 130bpm. Hahaha.
But, I am a bassist. And I like all kinds of bass, too, not just metal. Blues, funk, classical, etc. I <3 bass! ^_^
Click to expand...
I play mostly Jazz drums, some soft rock (The Dead/Pink Floyd), some harder rock (The Who/Zeppelin).

I respect all drummers.
 
Ranthus said:
Yes, actually. It's very hard. But having several measures of rhythm loop for a quarter of the song and several different looping measures for the other quarters, which is pretty much what most rap I've heard is, is still simple. Having music that shows some basic, enjoyable rhythm is effort, but not much in comparison to many other musical pieces.
Just think about it. Most music I've heard consists of rhythm, intonation, dynamics, articulation, and possibly other things I may have missed. Take out intonation, dynamics, and most of articulation, which is now limited to just accents. You have most rap that I've heard.
But in the end, it's just that I actually like having intonation and articulation (dynamics are necessary, but I won't elaborate further here) in my music. As in constantly varying notes, as opposed to a pattern.
Click to expand...

How is " several measures of rhythm loop for a quarter of the song and several different looping measures for the other quarters" any more or less complex then a person on drums repeating the same thing, then base then guitar? Also why do you think the more complex a song / beat the better. I've heard super complex songs that were crap and extremely simple beats that were so catchy and amazing.

Basically we all need to admit that yes we have different opinions about music and what we all like, this is a fact of life. What I think the OP was getting at was why people insist on attacking rap music all out, e.g., in their sigs.
 
Ah, edit was too late. Within two minutes! Oh well.

I generally consider the rhythm to usually be the background, (The Rhythm Section, for example, generally has percussion[as in pianos/keyboards, bass, drums])by the way. Which makes rap just half of a song I would like. Not that some parts of rhythm section can't be the main section of the song, of course, but they tend to be in the background in the songs I like.
And just because it's complex doesn't mean it's good. Just that what I consider to be good music tends to be more complex.
Ph?bus said:
The beats being repeated aren't exactly the most complex, I suppose?
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Rhythm doesn't need to be complex, IMO, it just needs to be good.

I probably should have left out the looping part, though. That most likely was not the thing to say.


[Edit]
Actually, I think we've both tried to end this "debate" twice...
 
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