Server issues: my Vent

[ricopaulson]

I have only played once in the last two weeks. It's getting retarded. Including some admins that take things too serious and too far. The game is supposed to be fun and when you compound ridiculous server issues with dictator-esq management system.... just ugh.

And BTW:
That is always the most positive and productive response.

Agreed I think over zealous admins drive players away more then anything...

 

[ST0RMY]

I can count the number of times ive seen pubs or members leave from our servers because of harsh admining from our division members on one finger. Our servers may have technical difficulties but I can guarantee that if people leave or are unhappy it is because of said technical difficulties, their unwillingness to adhere to our rules, or to switch to a different map. Instead of seeing our admins taking things too seriously I see them being too lenient in some cases. Most of our admins warn twice, kick once and normally never have to ban. Is it the standard w/k/b? No, but it works. We communicate well, cooperate often, and I honestly believe we contribute to the success of our servers. As a whole our division is the more mature, more dedicated, more responsive, and more beneficial (I am very biased).

Now its my turn to vent.

I may not be the most active player but im definitively not the least active. I make sure to talk to our pubs and members in game and in vent. Most of the admining I do involves using the mic instead of the console. Jeod and Goomba taught me that you try to dissuade rule breakers instead of punishing them after the fact. I try to make it to every event and help any member or pub with questions or concerns. I might complain a hell of a lot but I also contribute a hell of a lot. I get angry (a lot) but lately theres been lots to be angry about.

Kalt- I miss it, but I play on it most Fridays.

Lag- I hate it, but I try to refill the servers after it hits.

Leadership- I talk to them and they talk back.

Admining- I take it serious but keep it running.

My question to you is; what are you doing to help the situation?

 

[gavin gillies]

Now its my turn to vent.

I may not be the most active player but im definitively not the least active. I make sure to talk to our pubs and members in game and in vent. Most of the admining I do involves using the mic instead of the console. Jeod and Goomba taught me that you try to dissuade rule breakers instead of punishing them after the fact. I try to make it to every event and help any member or pub with questions or concerns. I might complain a hell of a lot but I also contribute a hell of a lot. I get angry (a lot) but lately theres been lots to be angry about.

Kalt- I miss it, but I play on it most Fridays.

Lag- I hate it, but I try to refill the servers after it hits.

Leadership- I talk to them and they talk back.

Admining- I take it serious but keep it running.

My question to you is; what are you doing to help the situation?

Blah Blah Blah

Really important stuff.. (had to throw that in!!!)

But seriously... I agree with most of the comments but how about a little perspective on some things..

LAG SPIKES?? So what?? don't normally last long.. if the server crashes i just join again or find another one of ours.. what people like about our servers normally brings them back.. i had a dip out of the eGO pool tonight on another server.. pure rubbish. Ended up muting so i could talk in vent only.

Kalt - while i never really developed the kalt fetish some people have (and i only mention this because it was mentioned above) - we all have our favourite maps.. and we all have these great ideas of what we would do if we had our hot little fingers on the buttons.. but typing in with a comment on leadership - with this as in other things they have the hard job of trying to find that thin middle ground where most people are happy and on the whole do a great job of it. How about we cut them a little slack with some things and instead of wishing things were back the way they were support and help drive new things? In hindsight maybe it is easy to say dropping kalt may not have been the best idea (i have no real opinion to be honest) but the decision was made with our best interests at heart..

Admining - I reckon we are all pretty relaxed about it. Sure there may be some occasions where the punishment seems a bit harsh especially if we make a mistake (and we will sometimes) but as long at you swing the admin bat with the thought in the back of the mind "would i like to be treated like this"

Seem to be getting a little off topic here, so back to the lag thing.. While it would be an easy thing for me to sit here in New Zealand and say"change server providers" I can also appreciate it may not be so easy. I also have complete faith in our division leaders to be pushing for resolution to any problems as they are also playing the same games with the same problems.. I also don't think that it is that big a deal.. sure it is annoying - or other words.. but on the plus side we have nice clean servers, fun people and pubs to play with, plenty of people i have met who i would be happy to have a beer with if we caught up and being part of such a huge worldwide community.. to me that is worth putting up with some issues until an workable cost effective solution can be found

How on earth did i write so much? Obviously too much time on my hands...:huh:

 

[Annihilator]

The issue isn't so much the lag, but the server crashes and restarts. Advisors and up are so busy with things away from in game as well as personal responsibilities. ( I was an advisor, I know what the job entails, its not an easy task, believe me)

Sometimes the server goes down for several hours before anyone can get on to get it back up. This is where we lose the pubbers who play in our servers, because they can't access them and go elsewhere. The other day Ava went down, I went in to help fill it and after 1 hour in the evening mind you, we still couldn't get more than 12 people in there!! These people that usually play have gone elsewhere to play and thats where we risk losing people in our servers, if they can find a server they can put up with their rules and the servers run great, thats where they are going to stay. Maybe its because its because from a retail world, but I compare it to a Wal Mart mentality, nobody likes shopping at Wal Mart, the customer service sucks, the lines are long, everything is scattered everywhere, but the prices are really cheap. They suffer through to save some money. People will do this in game as well, they can put up with other problems as long as the server runs without any hiccups.

For what we are paying for these servers, we should be having very few problems, or atleast be able to see results when problems arise. No division should be put on the back burner for another one. We all contribute to this great organization we are part of, and we all just want to see results.

So who is going to start singing Kumbaya??

 

[Greenlight Terror]

This is a very interesting thread....

So I would like to explain a little something that maybe you guys have not known or don't understand.

EX: =(e)='s Can only do so much before they need help from eG's or eGO's
=(eG)= can only do so much there limited like the e's.
Same with =(eGO)='s can only do so much till they need help from leadership.

Now you might wonder what the heck this has to do with anything but pay attention,
Now we can liken this to the leadership:

Advisors - Can only do so much
Division Leaders - Can only do so much
Divisional Council - Can only do so much


Now we all have our place in eGO that is why there are ranks. We all try our best to handle problems that arise that we can do something about.( at least I'd like to hope everyone is doing there best)

We as leadership are doing a lot behind the scenes that you guys cant see or don't know about.

I'm the type of person its fine to ask questions, or state what is bothering you in the division... but as long as it's with respect.

Remember our Vaules as eGO members in server also resides in this forum.

 

[Madvillain]

I have only played once in the last two weeks. It's getting retarded. Including some admins that take things too serious and too far.

Oh WORD. I mean, I'm all for maintaining our great servers, but for real, some admins think they're the internet police or something. SOME leniency is necessary to keep players happy.

 

[Nosh]

Oh WORD. I mean, I'm all for maintaining our great servers, but for real, some admins think they're the internet police or something. SOME leniency is necessary to keep players happy.

From my experience it is consistency that keeps people happy. If we all use the same admin standards (as Admin School and countless forums teach), then everyone know what to expect. Changing expectations causes frustration.If we have some who don't care about Rule X and some who do, that is where people get confused. The Code of Conduct is fairly simple. Determining intent is the hard part. For example, was that on oops I dropped an F bomb or that's my 17th in 5 minutes. I know that I tend to slip into a W / W / K / W (explaining kick reason) / B in order to ensure that a person's intent is malicious.

also... this thread feels like an eG Private or Admin School discussion now.

 

[Madvillain]

From my experience it is consistency that keeps people happy. If we all use the same admin standards (as Admin School and countless forums teach), then everyone know what to expect. Changing expectations causes frustration.If we have some who don't care about Rule X and some who do, that is where people get confused. The Code of Conduct is fairly simple. Determining intent is the hard part. For example, was that on oops I dropped an F bomb or that's my 17th in 5 minutes. I know that I tend to slip into a W / W / K / W (explaining kick reason) / B in order to ensure that a person's intent is malicious.

also... this thread feels like an eG Private or Admin School discussion now.

Woah woah, be easy. Being a nice, yet stern admin solves a lot.. it keeps others happy, and brings people back to the servers after they play their first time. It's happened countless times with me. as I said, some leniency is appreciated as is courtesy, andddd you can do that without bending the rules. That's all i'ma say. Obviously my admining techniques differ from yours my dude. You can be different whilst still upholding the same rules, and it can be just as effective, perhaps more effective.


k ANYWAYYYYY

 

[ST0RMY]

Some great posts here, but since weve been getting so off topic i think ill just start posting my favorite videos:

#1. I R Cute Kitten

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZSbC09qgLI[/ame]

 

[gavin gillies]

ha ha ha ha ha - seems this thread has taken a few different turns hasn't it

 

[SPC.Cowles]

ha ha ha ha ha - seems this thread has taken a few different turns hasn't it

We all know what is going on and are just talking about it in this thread... not a bad thing at all.

 

[ST0RMY]

We all know what is going on and are just talking about it in this thread... not a bad thing at all.

You know im not sure what youre getting at. :confused1:

I completely agree, and the main portion of my gripe above in this thread was the idea that eGO is using somewhat of dictatorship methods, silencing people. I have been told "post it in the appropriate forum" meaning the eGO admins private forum. I do that and still get shut down, only in private by leadership. It gets old.

The fact is that I am very busy spending countless extra hours at work (setting up a new unit) and finishing my bachelor degree, so the little time I find to play now, I want good servers with people who either don't give a *exponent deleted* or that constantly work to make things better, nothing in between. When you reach the in between you expect things to get better, but with the jerks that don't care at all.

In this quote i gather that youve made a post that was moved to eGO private meaning that it either discussed admin topics, a possible change or questioning of rules, or it may have just not been appropriate altogether. Ive gotten shutdown in the past too but that was before i learned how eGO works. You may consider our clan a "dictatorship" but to be perfectly honest our system works. I would liken eGO to a corporation more than anything else (i see you also see the similarity with your management remarks). Not everyone has a say in what we do as a clan and in some situations our posts may be deleted or moved if they serve no purpose or are counterproductive to our goals or ideals. We have a detailed chain of command and we are all limited to our specific roles like Greenlight mentioned. But for the most part you are free to make any reasonable question or comment in the forums or in Vent.

The second portion of your post contradicts itself. It states that you want to play with people who dont care and people who contribute. Frankly, if you dont care then why would you want to contribute?

I know. Haha. I still know far too many people that our "upper management" won't listen to. Everyone wants better servers and Kalt or even a rotating server instead of Argentan. I hate Argentan when there is only 5 people playing it.

It can be frustrating to have your questions, comments, or reccomendations ignored. But at the same time not all requests can be fulfilled. Without fail, i have seen advisors and DLs answer questions and resolve disputes. If you make a request they may decline it but its hard for me to believe that you would not be given a fair explanation of why/ why not. As for the failure of kalt, the up-rise of Argentan, and the failure of Argentan our leadership has taken note. Kalt died because people stopped playing on it. Argentan started off well but met the same fate as Kalt. What most of you fail to realize or acknowledge is that Kalt has not been ignored. We have our weekly kalt night every Friday and the true diehards and fans of Kalt show up. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who complain about the lack of Kalt have not showed up to even ONE of these events. This has been brought up again and again-- why? Because the actions our leadership takes is in direct relationship to the communitys response.

I have only played once in the last two weeks. It's getting retarded. Including some admins that take things too serious and too far. The game is supposed to be fun and when you compound ridiculous server issues with dictator-esq management system.... just ugh.

And BTW:
That is always the most positive and productive response.

This post (and the first sentence) says it all to me.

With all due respect, i see hardly any of the same problems you do. Our leadership cannot do everything from a technical standpoint because they rely on council members that have other responsibilities. We are allowed to voice our opinions as is demonstrated in this very thread. The success of our clan and division speaks for itself as a testament to our members dedication and our leaders hard work.

Like i asked in my earlier post: What are you doing to make things better?

 

[LeviTheDegu]

ST0RMY: You're my hero.

 

[LeviTheDegu]

10 People on a heavy night on a Friday night I don't think is what leadership's looking for to bring back kalt, now 32 people with people waiting to get in might just be enough to convince leadership to give us kalt back. Words without follow through...What do you expect to gain out of that?

 

[YoSpankDawg]

 

[jeod66]

So...I guess I'm the one at fault here, because I'm the person that argued to NOT close this and let it run its course, as an experiment. The hope was that this frustration would manifest itself in the form of positive ideas and feedback, and it "sort of" has. But at the same time, it's gone off on tangents and led to ad hominem attacks.

I'd like to comment on a few themes I notice, since I've been watching this thread from the very beginning:

(CUE "STATE OF THE DIVISION, FEBRUARY EDITION, WALL OF TEXT")
Sorry, I don't have a pretty crayon image drawn up

1.) We have our hands tied just as much as you do with regards to these server issues. As many have stated, we're working to resolve this specific problem for better day-to-day upkeep. What you see us doing typically is the result of a lot of behind-the-scenes jockeying to get things accomplished. Let me give you an example: We have multiple support requests in for the servers, but because of a general backlog, we can get stuck.

Takeaway point from this: "Rome wasn't built in a day, neither was eGO, we just need time to accomplish things."

2.) General comments about changing server providers: We do not forsee this happening anytime in the near future, so please quit suggesting this as a solution. The last thing I want is our provider to log into here and see 20 people yelling that his work "isn't good enough." Spray has some thoughts on what may be causing some of our problems, and we hope to get the tools we need to start analyzing this very soon.

3.) Server plugin complaints: We've developed something akin to a strategic plan for the future, and touchup work is expected on these, including cleanup/removal of conflicting plugins.

4.) Kalt vs Argentan: I know, the big elephant in the room that everyone has an opinion on, and that opinion is generally that we're a bunch of incompetent fools that don't listen to members. We tried an experiment, and it hasn't worked out as we hoped. But to be perfectly honest, what upsets me here is the sentiment I feel when reading this thread: We could have had a "start Argentan!" event every day, and some people wouldn't go just to spite us and prove us wrong. I'd like to thank everyone who's stepped up and done their part to try and help out with Argentan, though. The sad thing is that we've been discussing solutions to this problem in private a lot recently, and with all these polarizing comments, it almost makes me not want to bother.

5.) Censorship: This is the one that angers me the most. Not "upsets", or "bothers", "angers". For someone just looking at threads we closed for one reason or another, it might look a little like censorship. Why were they closed? Because they were the n-th time that the Kalt vs Argentan debate was brought up, after many, many requests to stop that, and we did our best to talk to everyone in Vent to clear up the issues as they were closed.

You don't realize that it took a VERY long time to get new passwords rolled out for our control systems the last time we needed it done. You don't realize that even if we did go ahead with a big server change request right now, it would need to be cleared by the right people and then implemented and troubleshooted. And you certainly don't realize that the ETA for support is entirely dependent on current backlog. It's no different from any IT department in the world, only this one is held back a little more by the fact that it's a VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION. Nobody here gets paid, and so it would be unreasonable to expect things to get done immediately, in all honesty. Everyone does the best we can.

If everyone REALLY wants something to gripe about, we could always end Realism in eGO.​

That's right, I actually said it. Do I intend for this to happen? No. But it should help put the scale of things into perspective a little. We went through a lot to get that dedicated realism mod set up (as well as a lot of other things that didn't quite pan out, in private), and we get 60 people showing up once a week for it. But on the other six days of the week, many want to throw stones instead, so long as the target isn't Realism...come on already. There's a huge difference between closing a few threads and closing Realism, and the way some people have argued in here, I feel as though they think the latter has occurred.

I expect that this will be the end of the back-and-forth bickering, because if it goes on any further than this, I'm going to close this thread for good. Keep in mind that all you say and do on these forums is visible to all. You're always welcome to come and find either myself or another member of Leadership in Ventrilo to talk if you want to; we'd be more than happy to sit down with you when possible. There's nothing wrong with talking in Vent and discussing things, but the verbal barrage needs to end here. I'll close with a quote from GardenGroveVW (slightly edited):

TALK IT OUT LIKE MEN. DONT MAKE A NEWS POST ABOUT IT.

Come on guys, we're better than this. As for our end, we appreciate the feedback and are doing our best to get things resolved; hopefully we will have some results within the next week or two, with some luck.

 

[YoSpankDawg]

(CUE "STATE OF THE DIVISION, FEBRUARY EDITION, WALL OF TEXT")
Sorry, I don't have a pretty crayon image drawn up

There's an ap for that:

No, but he's serious, folks.

 

[I SURVIVED LONDON BLITZ]

We do appriciate what is being done, and one comment was dod is being left behind. If this is so please tell us, if its not why is call of duty being advertised on dod servers?

 

[ST0RMY]

If everyone REALLY wants something to gripe about, we could always end Realism in eGO.​

BURN HIM!!! BURN HIM!!!

I get impatient waiting for you put some sense into our discussions but i can imagine you taking notes until you do finally make your entrance.

P.S. Sorry for internet yelling. :crying:

 

[Blue Stealth]

We do appriciate what is being done, and one comment was dod is being left behind. If this is so please tell us, if its not why is call of duty being advertised on dod servers?

eGO is not leaving DoDS behind, its our second largest division by a large margin. If anyone is leaving DoDS behind, its Valve.

As for the CoD advertising, just as the CSS PSC-sponsored event was advertised on our servers last month, and just as our own DoDS Halloween frag fest event was advertised on over divisions' servers, this month's CoD event is being advertised on all eGO servers where possible. We are a community and we have people, including pubs, who jump from game to game like its nothing.

We can't be so selfish.

-Blue