J-J-J-JAIL POLL: What do you hate about Jail?

[Ric]

1) Trigger Happy CT's

I hate the fact that there's people who will care so much about their kdr (in jail out of all places) that they go crazy on silly orders. Examples:

• Knifing Distance Check - Are you KIDDING me? I'm going to kill you because you're 1/2 cm too far.
• Didn't move fast enough - I'm going to kill you because you didn't get to the destination as fast as I wanted you to. (not talking about delaying)
• Stopped/standing (if crouching) to type - I'm going to kill you because you stopped walking or stood up to type
• "Go to" orders - Warden: "GO TO SIMON" -> T's go to simon sign. CT's kill the T's. Did the T's disobey an order? absolutely not. But CT's weren't thinking.
• Oh, and my personal favorite...
  Didn't shift walk fast enough - Like you can shift walk faster?

2) Misunderstanding of the phrase "Detour & Delaying"

This phrase gets thrown out like candy. You stop to type, you're detour and delaying. You pick up a gun in your path because you're ordered to walk straight and you're once again, "detour & delaying". What is going on?

3) Ridiculous Orders

Shift walk out of your cell, do a 405482383 degree turn to your left, then crouch, then do another 08923472384723 degree turn to your right, then jump, stick out your tongue, and face your cell. Do this by 5:05.

Need I say more?

4) CT's not understanding the point of jail

Jailbreak is not a server to bring up your kdr. In fact, its on of the few servers where your kdr shouldn't matter at all. Moreover, and this will refer back to item #1, T's are supposed to be smart and find ways to get around warden's orders while actually following them (ie. walk to simon --> going to simon sign). Unfortunately, T's are now killed for being "too smart".

5) Winning games and still dying?

I know many people have complained but you win games like temptation and you die? What's the point?


tl;dr?
CT's don't be so trigger happy!

1) Trigger Happy CTs - Establish the difference line of freekilling and being trigger happy. Encourage them to give warnings to lesser offenses and be a Leader, I know you have it in you.

2) Misunderstanding of D&Ding- Establish the fact that Prisoners have the ability to type, as it is their only form of communication. Stand up for the innocent Prisoners. Make it known that failure to abide by this rule will result in administrative consequences. However, stopping to type something silly or not really beneficial every 2 seconds can be counted as delaying.

3) Ridiculous orders - All orders must be fair. If an order is given to misperceive(To a great extent, not just due to the fact you weren't listening) the Prisoners or cause a heavy general disruption, then the order isn't fair. All orders must be fair, precise, and fluent. Failure to do so will cause the Prisoners to find loops in your orders and you ending up freekilling them.

4) Players not understanding Jailbreak - Exercise your ability to revoke. If 1 guy not knowing the rules/orders drives away 15 players, that 1 player isn't worth it. Encourage new users to read the MOTD and offer them the ability to contact Admins for rule clarifications. Repeat that the Jail server isn't a KDR server until it gets stuck in everyone's head. Always use your revokes wisely and determine the intent behind the rule violation before handling it, and follow the predetermined rules by Leadership.

5) Winning games with death - Don't play. Plain and simple. No one is forcing you to play an unfair game and last I recall, a death prize in temptation MUST be verbally or textually publicly announced before execution may take place.

 

[iEye Captain]

2) Favoritism - Make friends, you'll get ST.

I never get ST. Does that mean I have no friends? :crying:

 

[5starGeneralAlphaSnake]

8) I have to go.

I love jail for the fun games in it. But it does get boring if 3 guys say go to the climb 3 rounds in a row, then race, then wait for the guy to say his LR, which takes 15 hours.

 

[Ric]

So it's the repetition of games, old maps, and being killed for something silly.

I've already summed up a solution to the strict killings.
As for repetition of games, don't play it. Rebel and take your chances. Don't like a game? Find a loophole in the order or just rebel.

If you happen to catch yourself on the Guard team, stop and ask yourself.."I just complained about couch game in Ric's thread. I wouldn't want to play couch game, so let's not make the Prisoners do it." or be a hypocrite, the choice is yours.

Maps is out of everyones control, except for those in Leadership and dedicated map makers. The only solution I can think of is you make a map yourself and submit it to Leadership via dropbox or PM.

Personal stats from Jail 5 months ago compared to now is horrible. If it's not enough people in the server, it's the freekilling. If it isn't the freekilling, it's the severity of the Guards. If it isn't the severity of the Guards, its blah blah blah. The rules were reformed, so that can't be it.

Spark the revolution and end the command chains. Instead of having everyone freeze and go knifing distance, give them the ability to move. Instead of having everyone shift walk to couch game, tell them to run to pool. Will they rebel? Probably, but that's why they're Prisoners and you're a Guard: Stop them! Talent is worthless unless exercised.

All these complaints are really self-resolvable if you'd just take a minute and think instead of acting on your rage of reasons and not returning to Jail.

 

[Kiwi]

I'd like to see new maps. Bring back BLACKOPS_FIX map too!!!

There is the problem

 

[Rico_Mancin]

A mixture of all of what you said, I guess. I get pretty pissed when I'm killed ten seconds into the round for being a degree off of where I'm supposed to be turned, for example. I'd rather be playing scoutsknives or something.

 

[Cyberia]

1 and 2.

Or because the person who has been moaning about freekilling STs or talking over the warden does exactly that and freekills me on ST.

Oh and people who kill afk's in a cell on a freeday when there hasn't been a time set by warden to be out of cellblock.

 

[PhaseXero]

Things Addressed By Other People (I think are Important)

Trigger Happy CTs - Encourage them to give warningsto lesser offenses."

This might sound cynical but I don't think this will ever be fixed. We have the most competitive jail server out there by far. Other servers are far more relaxed and we compete over kills. The only way to fix this problem is regulation by adding more rules (sucks).

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Rule Uncertainty - If it isn't in the Jail Rule book or an exception posted by a CS:S Admin Trainer or Advisor, it isn't a rule.
I'm going to say something I normally would keep private, sorry Cryptex.

The main problem is the rulebook and the way we address jail rules and updates. The rulebook is great for new players but completely useless as a reference for serious players. There have been an increasing amount of updates which are NOT reflected in the rulebook but left to languish in the forums archives. How is a new player supposed to find these threads? It's ridiculous.

Do you non-admins know how many debates and arguments I've seen over small things in Jail? This is one of the biggest reasons my experience is ruined and I'm guessing for many others as well. Knowing what you can and cannot do IMO is essential.

Instead of complaining I've decided to create a player focused jail reference. This will be done in Google Docs and available for everyone to view. If you are an experienced jail player and would like to contribute please find me in steam chat or via PM. Lets talk.
(If you don't know Google Docs it allows people to collaborate at once on a single document, incredibly useful).

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Maps is out of everyones control, except for those in Leadership and dedicated map makers.
I personally would like to have a sub-forum just for map submissions and have leadership comment on why they get approved or rejected. I doubt this will happen but it's on my wish list.

There are many maps that have yet to be submitted. Do your part, find these maps, go play them yourselves and submit them for review.

My Own Gripes
Slays - We need them!

I think the biggest problem from an admin standpoint is that revokes aren't done because it's a serious punishment and often it's a reoccurring minor offense. We have no tools in between a warn and a revoke. The number one complaint is that people don't get revoked enough and I can feel their pain.

For all you non-admins we have a warn-revoke-kick-ban policy. We rarely if ever go to a kick and we tend to give out a lot more warnings than revokes, I've seen people and the server being warned several times before revoking.
If we have a in between punishments I think more people would be satisfied with the way CTs are treated. For example someone screws up and freekills not accidentally but because they made a mistake it's normally a warn but I think a slay would be more appropriate.

My $0.02 on this anyways.

 

[Naku_vamp]

no offence but i hate eGo jail servers...i used to play jail a lot when i played css a lot but any time i have tried in an eGo server i got so mad i basically had to leave or I'd probably say/do things that would probably get me kicked out of eGo, and it takes A LOT to make me mad I love all of our other servers but cannot stand out jail servers

personally i do not play our jail servers because it is the least amount of fun i have ever had playing jail

and i chose basically all of the above on the "i leave jail because" because i have experienced basically all of those in a 10 minute span of playing our jail servers

 

[PhaseXero]

no offence but i hate eGo jail servers...i used to play jail a lot when i played css a lot but any time i have tried in an eGo server i got so mad i basically had to leave or I'd probably say/do things that would probably get me kicked out of eGo, and it takes A LOT to make me mad I love all of our other servers but cannot stand out jail servers

personally i do not play our jail servers because it is the least amount of fun i have ever had playing jail

I think different jail servers are better for different types of jail players. If you are looking to relax and shoot the crap with other players this is not the server for you. I would direct you to HellsGamers or Syndicate Gamers instead.

Each server specializes in different things and I think it's up to the player to find a server that works best for them. We are a competitive server at the end of the day and it satisfies a niche that some players are after. I think we do what we do fairly well and even people will never be 100% happy.

 

[Ric]

Things Addressed By Other People (I think are Important)

Trigger Happy CTs - Encourage them to give warningsto lesser offenses."

This might sound cynical but I don't think this will ever be fixed. We have the most competitive jail server out there by far. Other servers are far more relaxed and we compete over kills. The only way to fix this problem is regulation by adding more rules (sucks).

--------------------------------------​

Rule Uncertainty - If it isn't in the Jail Rule book or an exception posted by a CS:S Admin Trainer or Advisor, it isn't a rule.
I'm going to say something I normally would keep private, sorry Cryptex.

The main problem is the rulebook and the way we address jail rules and updates. The rulebook is great for new players but completely useless as a reference for serious players. There have been an increasing amount of updates which are NOT reflected in the rulebook but left to languish in the forums archives. How is a new player supposed to find these threads? It's ridiculous.

Do you non-admins know how many debates and arguments I've seen over small things in Jail? This is one of the biggest reasons my experience is ruined and I'm guessing for many others as well. Knowing what you can and cannot do IMO is essential.

Instead of complaining I've decided to create a player focused jail reference. This will be done in Google Docs and available for everyone to view. If you are an experienced jail player and would like to contribute please find me in steam chat or via PM. Lets talk.
(If you don't know Google Docs it allows people to collaborate at once on a single document, incredibly useful).

--------------------------------------​

Maps is out of everyones control, except for those in Leadership and dedicated map makers.
I personally would like to have a sub-forum just for map submissions and have leadership comment on why they get approved or rejected. I doubt this will happen but it's on my wish list.

There are many maps that have yet to be submitted. Do your part, find these maps, go play them yourselves and submit them for review.

My Own Gripes
Slays - We need them!

I think the biggest problem from an admin standpoint is that revokes aren't done because it's a serious punishment and often it's a reoccurring minor offense. We have no tools in between a warn and a revoke. The number one complaint is that people don't get revoked enough and I can feel their pain.

For all you non-admins we have a warn-revoke-kick-ban policy. We rarely if ever go to a kick and we tend to give out a lot more warnings than revokes, I've seen people and the server being warned several times before revoking.
If we have a in between punishments I think more people would be satisfied with the way CTs are treated. For example someone screws up and freekills not accidentally but because they made a mistake it's normally a warn but I think a slay would be more appropriate.

My $0.02 on this anyways.

What is a competitive Jail server? Is it a server full of people who mistake "trigger happy" for "freekilling"? Keep in mind, a Prisoners objective is to win at everything, don't rebel, and get LR or to rebel and kill everyone. If I find a loophole in your order that allows me to exercise my speeched rights and you kill me, are we competitive? No. We're freekilling. In fact, C-WHIT gave me a great example of what I'm talking about:

Warden: Go to Simon.
*All but 1 Prisoner go to Simon Says and get on the middle black block and freeze.*
*1 Prisoner is just standing on the Simon Says sign, waiting for a new command.*
Warden: *Shoots 1 Prisoner for not following the orders, when Prisoner 1 followed the orders.*

Please explain that a little more, I'm interested.

We had every CT in the habit of using team chat to ask for warden instead of spamming the mic. This stopped when admins made it highly notable that this isn't a rule. My point is, if we can get the CT community to stop spamming the mic when it isn't even a rule, we should be able to form the CTs shape a little more, too. All it takes is team effort.

 

[PhaseXero]

What is a competitive Jail server? Is it a server full of people who mistake "trigger happy" for "freekilling"? Keep in mind, a Prisoners objective is to win at everything, don't rebel, and get LR or to rebel and kill everyone. If I find a loophole in your order that allows me to exercise my speeched rights and you kill me, are we competitive? No. We're freekilling. Please explain that a little more, I'm interested.

I guess my first question is how often you play other servers? I go to a lot of different servers because i enjoy variety, it's a great source of inspiration and way to look at our servers from a different angle. This is how I first found our server is different (in a good way).

We are mainly competitive because we play games that are in the best interest of the CT team and not in the interest of a good time for all. While this is not uncommon on other servers we seem to do it the most. No other servers have needed such strict rules on things like trivia, couch game, % of Ts being killed in one game. This is my reason behind the competitiveness of our server.

CTs like to win at the expense of the Ts. Our Ts are also some of the best as well, I'm not sure if this is from the crushing heel of the CTs or because Ts like to rebel more here. It's hard to tell.

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What do you think of the rule reference guide? I think it's sorely needed and I would love input from players such as yourself.

 

[Ric]

Exactly. Bingo. PhaseXero, you are my hero. If I wasn't broke and begged for Casino Cash from the wealthy, I'd give you all mine.

"We are mainly competitive because we play games that are in the best interest of the CT team and not in the interest of a good time for all."

The initial value was: Roleplaying game for Counter-Strike: Source.
The current value is: Competitive game for Counter-Strike: Source.

Obviously, the current value of Jail isn't working if there's complaints flying from left to right and people not wanting to return. Hell, certain long-time Jail players refuse to play on our server now. 3 months ago, Jail was full almost all the time and had no less then 20 people on around the overnight hours. Over the past week, I've seen, excluding weekends, about MAYBE 10 people on during the overnight hours, with some spike exceptions.

We used to be a "relaxed atmosphere", and you know it personally, PhaseXero. But lately there's been a lot of arguments, wrongful revokes, bad orders, upset players, and other things we could easily prevent and make people want to return to eGO's Jail server and not lose potential recruits to other people. And for anyone of Beta's crew: Jail players are people too!

As for your guide, that sounds like a great idea. Have you ran it by Leadership yet before you put work into something that might not be OK? Or are you going to keep it for unofficial use?

 

[Handoffate]

2+3 but not 5

I play infrequently so I don't know where everything is and get killed because I stop to type "Where is pool?"

I then wait around for the next round but there are often ridiculously long rounds with nothing fun to watch happening. For a good experience tell all CTs to get out of the way and tell terrorists to run directly to climb or couches or wherever the first game is. Not "OK so you're going to back out of your cells while facing North by North West then turn 270 degrees counter clockwise while jumping. Then crouch for 3.37 seconds and spin 90 degrees left then 90 degrees right while rising from your crouch." Make the game fun for everyone not just a T kill fest kthx

 

[Lance]

Option 3, followed by 4. Back when I had more free time I'd play jail occasionally for events or if a friend wanted me to. But now I spend more time on our forums than I do playing the games haha.

Also, players of CS:S who use NVIDIA and play jail are hypocrites, because that's not the way it's meant to be played.

 

[PhaseXero]

Exactly. Bingo. PhaseXero, you are my hero. If I wasn't broke and begged for Casino Cash from the wealthy, I'd give you all mine.

Obviously, the current value of Jail isn't working if there's complaints flying from left to right and people not wanting to return. Hell, certain long-time Jail players refuse to play on our server now. 3 months ago, Jail was full almost all the time and had no less then 20 people on around the overnight hours. Over the past week, I've seen, excluding weekends, about MAYBE 10 people on during the overnight hours, with some spike exceptions.

We used to be a "relaxed atmosphere", and you know it personally, PhaseXero. But lately there's been a lot of arguments, wrongful revokes, bad orders, upset players, and other things we could easily prevent and make people want to return to eGO's Jail server and not lose potential recruits to other people. And for anyone of Beta's crew: Jail players are people too!

I agree I think we had a lot more personality before. You had players like starscream who would be that hardass you love/hate but would come back to again and again. I think for a lot of old players the novelty wears off and they move on to another game.

I don't have an answer for the late night decline, that's quite puzzling to me too. To be honest I really didn't remember that many people late at night - maybe my memory is just going =(

As for your guide, that sounds like a great idea. Have you ran it by Leadership yet before you put work into something that might not be OK? Or are you going to keep it for unofficial use?

Shot down by Cryptex when I asked for an official. I assume there should be no problems with an informal guide. It would be nice to get a blessing from leadership.

 

[Dalsia]

I agree I think we had a lot more personality before. You had players like starscream who would be that hardass you love/hate but would come back to again and again. I think for a lot of old players the novelty wears off and they move on to another game.

I don't have an answer for the late night decline, that's quite puzzling to me too. To be honest I really didn't remember that many people late at night - maybe my memory is just going =(



Shot down by Cryptex when I asked for an official. I assume there should be no problems with an informal guide. It would be nice to get a blessing from leadership.

As a person who was a committed jail player and administrator who played the server almost every day for an entire year, I can say that the reasons that I left jail were those that I have listed, as well as the reasons listed by others, most significantly the fact that many of the regular CTs treat the new jail as a way to harvest kills to increase their CS:S built-in KPD ratio. The number of trigger happy CTs far outweighs the number who used to enjoy the thrill of hunting down rebels and triumphing over obstacles. That was what jail meant to me, and that feeling has pretty much left. Every time I go back on the server now (which I already mentioned was very sparsely) I just can't get into it. The mood changed for me so much that it (as well as a few other personal things) compelled me to move to the TF2 division.

 

[Mudkip]

I leave jail cause dumb cts are dumb.
They don't listen to the warden's orders and freekill.
Also they can't aim-I'm nowhere near rebellers and get killed.
Also when cts who arent warden spam useless crap, it makes me rage.

 

[Freaknasty !]

I usually play jail around the hours of 7am-3pm est and we usually have an average of 5-15 people playing between 7-1. But sometimes you get wardens that come in and they start to switch it up a little. I think its fine to kill people during the games but what i cant stand is when they kill off half the t's right when the cells open. Then you press tab and see people leave 1 by one. I know that its part of the game and t's should listen but were also trying to keep the server active and we want everyone to have fun. Why kill half the t's before 5:00 unless they attempt to rebel? Let the games kill the t's. Give em a chance. Im done venting, Thanks guys

 

[Trippey]

4.) I don't play jail

I don't play jail because it is determined by the players/wardens on how fun the game is, due to the fact that most of the time the round orders lack creativity and end up making the whole idea of jailbreak boring (ex. Facing your cell for half the round, poorly said game rules.)

Another thing that bothers me about jail is, the people who are CT's that anticipate your moves and kill you (free killing). I know sometimes it can be a mistake ,but it leaves you dead for the remainder of the round (which can go for up to 6 minutes!)

Jail is not my cup of tea, but on occasions it can be quite amusing.