Selective Admin

[sopheyy]

Hi guys!

I know that this "Selective Admin" was something that was already implemented in pG, but I do feel that it should get transferred over to eGO.

Backstory:
I joined eGO in about 2010, from playing the Jailbreak server on Source, non-stop for about two years. I'm very familiar with how Jailbreak works and how to play it. I don't really play it anymore though, I guess I have "outgrown" it.

This brings me to my point -
I want to play Jailbreak maybe once every month or so, and probably only for an hour or two. This hour I do not want my admin. I do not want the responsibility, because frankly I have no idea how to handle it. I can get trained a million times, but I will still not know how to properly admin the server, due to lack of experience.

I have also come across "Jailbreak admins" who joined the TTT server for fun. They had little to no clue about how to admin the server properly. Not only was this incredibly frustrating for me and the other admins who play regularly, but I'm sure it was equally frustrating for the admin in question.


I feel that this "Selective Admin" system will come in handy in these situations where people are only really active on one of the two special-ruled servers.


Note: Maybe have it so that we can still permaban (hard-r etc etc)?

 

[Tethys]

I only play on the Jailbreak server and have been on that server for almost 2 years now. I feel like this would be a good idea

 

[Eland]

Hi guys!

I know that this "Selective Admin" was something that was already implemented in pG, but I do feel that it should get transferred over to eGO.

Backstory:
I joined eGO in about 2010, from playing the Jailbreak server on Source, non-stop for about two years. I'm very familiar with how Jailbreak works and how to play it. I don't really play it anymore though, I guess I have "outgrown" it.

This brings me to my point -
I want to play Jailbreak maybe once every month or so, and probably only for an hour or two. This hour I do not want my admin. I do not want the responsibility, because frankly I have no idea how to handle it. I can get trained a million times, but I will still not know how to properly admin the server, due to lack of experience.

I have also come across "Jailbreak admins" who joined the TTT server for fun. They had little to no clue about how to admin the server properly. Not only was this incredibly frustrating for me and the other admins who play regularly, but I'm sure it was equally frustrating for the admin in question.


I feel that this "Selective Admin" system will come in handy in these situations where people are only really active on one of the two special-ruled servers.


Note: Maybe have it so that we can still permaban (hard-r etc etc)?

This is a really good idea for admins that want to play jailbreak for fun.. maybe add something to there name to show that they are "off duty" to show that they just want to play for fun.

 

[Simon]

Hey sopheyy, as someone who was a pG member and turned down admin training, I can understand fairly well what you're getting at here, I think.

I've always gone with "play first, admin second". I know we sorta bash this one over the head sometimes. But, in the case of JB or TTT, they seem to be very popular servers - are there normally a couple admins on who would be "JB" or "TTT" specific admins? I'm just not entirely sure in my head how this sort of thing could easily be executed and done. The selective admin thing at pG was basically bumping up a rank, but declining training as a whole, not necessarily just selectively admining.

One thing I've always said in admin training as well - if you don't know a servers specific rules, don't worry. It isn't the end of the world and often admins who frequent that server will step in quickly. Ask questions, let them know you aren't familiar and that any game specifics need to be handled by them. If I went on JB I'd happily ban someone for racism if needed, but when it comes to RDM games, I'd be clueless!

There's days where I just want to relax and kill some people on DoD and not worry about the players. I've felt like a stranger on Dust2 often and left the admining completely up to the regulars there. I tried BF4 and couldn't understand it for the life of me, so admining was basically a nightmare to attempt for me. Do you feel obligated to try and enforce the JB specific rules for that time? It is a pretty busy server, I feel other admins would be there to step in and let you enjoy the game for that time.

I think we will see some good responses from other leadership on this one, but, this is just my food for thought as someone who hops between games sometimes - few times a year I install CS and play Dust2, thing's like that. Since this was a thing at pG, albeit a bit different overall, I'm sure this won't be the last time it's up for discussion.

 

[sopheyy]

Hey sopheyy, as someone who was a pG member and turned down admin training, I can understand fairly well what you're getting at here, I think.

I've always gone with "play first, admin second". I know we sorta bash this one over the head sometimes. But, in the case of JB or TTT, they seem to be very popular servers - are there normally a couple admins on who would be "JB" or "TTT" specific admins? I'm just not entirely sure in my head how this sort of thing could easily be executed and done. The selective admin thing at pG was basically bumping up a rank, but declining training as a whole, not necessarily just selectively admining.

One thing I've always said in admin training as well - if you don't know a servers specific rules, don't worry. It isn't the end of the world and often admins who frequent that server will step in quickly. Ask questions, let them know you aren't familiar and that any game specifics need to be handled by them. If I went on JB I'd happily ban someone for racism if needed, but when it comes to RDM games, I'd be clueless!

There's days where I just want to relax and kill some people on DoD and not worry about the players. I've felt like a stranger on Dust2 often and left the admining completely up to the regulars there. I tried BF4 and couldn't understand it for the life of me, so admining was basically a nightmare to attempt for me. Do you feel obligated to try and enforce the JB specific rules for that time? It is a pretty busy server, I feel other admins would be there to step in and let you enjoy the game for that time.

I think we will see some good responses from other leadership on this one, but, this is just my food for thought as someone who hops between games sometimes - few times a year I install CS and play Dust2, thing's like that. Since this was a thing at pG, albeit a bit different overall, I'm sure this won't be the last time it's up for discussion.

I think I understand where you're coming from, but I honestly get so frustrated by reading the admin chat and feeling so helpless. It's so frustrating to me that I'm at a point where I'd rather hop on a smurf, to play on that specific server.
I'm not saying that training should be excluded from anyone - EVERYONE should get trained in EVERYTHING. But just add the option for people to get their admin removed on that specific server, if it's something they rarely play on, or feel uncomfortable admining on.

- And yes, admins are pretty damn nice when it comes to helping out, but when you barely remember what to do when someone freekills, then you know that you shouldn't even be allowed to admin. Kinda like when you get admin and join a server before you're trained.

Edit: And I don't particularly want to get trained for half an hour~, to play on the Jailbreak server for an hour after that.

 

[Custom Stats]

This suggestion goes great with this suggestion and both are things that should be implemented here as they are very beneficial. If there is an admin who is new to Jailbreak or even TTT, it can be extremely confusing as to what they should be doing. Without the experience of playing on the server and getting used to how things work, it's nearly impossible to try to admin anything as you have no idea if what they're even saying is against the rules. Forcing everyone to have admin on the server without them having at least a basic understanding of how the server runs and not giving them the ability to opt out of admining that server is just like giving a chicken a spatula. It doesn't make sense. I believe the best solution to this problem is to require every admin to go through Global Training but then make it optional if they wish to get trained for TTT and Jailbreak. It could be something like this which we had in pG:

 

[sopheyy]

This suggestion goes great with this suggestion and both are things that should be implemented here as they are very beneficial. If there is an admin who is new to Jailbreak or even TTT, it can be extremely confusing as to what they should be doing. Without the experience of playing on the server and getting used to how things work, it's nearly impossible to try to admin anything as you have no idea if what they're even saying is against the rules. Forcing everyone to have admin on the server without them having at least a basic understanding of how the server runs and not giving them the ability to opt out of admining that server is just like giving a chicken a spatula. It doesn't make sense. I believe the best solution to this problem is to require every admin to go through Global Training but then make it optional if they wish to get trained for TTT and Jailbreak. It could be something like this which we had in pG:

I didn't even see that thread. That's really awesome!

 

[Sammie]

This would indeed go great with the suggestion I made, that custom linked, and could be included in "some form of Maul update" if the available resources are there. I would still consider both to nice additions to have, but not of great priority. This is just what I think, and I have no real say in this matter

 

[Simon]

This would indeed go great with the suggestion I made, that custom linked, and could be included in "some form of Maul update" if the available resources are there. I would still consider both to nice additions to have, but not of great priority. This is just what I think, and I have no real say in this matter

I believe Drewerth is working on some larger MAUL updates currently.

Yehhp Michael Bolton this thread is something you may want to read and talk about as a team.

 

[Drewerth]

Simon

I don't do that branch of Maul. I'm doing serverside stuff, you'd need the web team for that.

 

[Michael Bolton]

Hi all! This suggestion has been discussed quite a bit. I'm not sure if it will be implemented or not, but I do know that if it's implemented, it'll take time. Something like this would require a rather large update to MAUL and will take quite a bit of time to do properly. I want it to be known though that this suggestion has been heard and talked about. At this point though, it's just a waiting game. It's up to Covert (He said I could name drop him)

 

[Zinx]

I like the whole "off duty" type of admin.

I can't play a server without admin 99.9% of the time, which I dont mind i'm here to help but I can rarely enjoy a TTT server without the mass chaos that goes on to the point I sit in spectate and have to help everyone. So I support this idea!

 

[Eric]

i don't understand why this has to be implemented as a maul update. When the merge happened and i had powers for there jail server but no training all i did was admin the basic rules for eGO i left the jail admining to what ever admin was on at the time and told them via admin chat "I'm not trained in jail so if you need to ban someone tell me and ill do it other wise I'm just going to admin the community rules." Its the same as if you go play another game from source that we support. unless you were trained in that game all you can really admin is the community rules. this also stops people from causing disruption on server. If it shows that your "off duty" for jail that means it shows you cant do specific things for that sever, while not have it show a color for off duty players wont know until something happened. If you want to play jail for like an hour play jail just tell the admin(if any are on) your not trained for jail and if players contact you via admin chat contact a admin that was trained that's what i did.
Another thing this selective admin wont really effect the servers since when you would need a jail specific admin you have to now find name on steam whats the difference when your not trained and contact them that way? Will this selective admin work only for jail and ttt or will it work for all the source games?

 

[TheUnderDog]

I gotta agree with Eric on this one, I understand the "not knowing or not being able to handle" situation but a lot of the rules are typically the same especially our Code of Conduct, so just choosing not to admin when their is possibly someone who is breaking a rule that you're specifically trained to handle with is just one reason it should not be implemented.

But Im just an O who left the cs division, so this is just another reply seen as an opinion

 

[Drewerth]

The idea is that if you don't want to be an admin on TTT, you won't have powers on TTT. Right now the system is very straight forward and you get globalized admin powers regardless of training.

This is more in-key to pG admin training. New pG admins (eG) would actually not have powers until they requested a global training for it. Once complete, they had admin- mostly. To admin TTT/JB they had to take another special class for powers on those servers to make sure they understood the game. Full members were subject to the same training policy, but both ranks could opt out of administration duty. Completely.

 

[Eric]

I understand this but when our admins get trained the basic is global training for all our servers advanced admin training is server specific training that you have to take once when your a eG and once when you get your O. It's pretty much the same as in PG the only difference is that we get the powers once we get the promotion. The only thing i see how that can get fixed is the get promoted via the leadership saying "this person got promoted" but don't actually get the rank until they do the training. There were some cases since I've been part of eGO that admins got promoted and started to admin things when not even trained or not admin things because they don't know what to do and when i told them multiple times they need to get trained and they never asked i reported it.

In the past i also have encountered admins (including myself) like i said in my previous post that if they weren't trained for that game that just said in admin chat that they weren't trained for that game because they were from i different game and just did admin of the community rules and i did server rules. Why do they need to be subjected to 30 min-60 min of training for a server they play rarely like what sophie said. Let them keep the admin commands not restricting them just have them admin the regular code of conduct. It will be like how i said in my previous post of how some players play other games from the main game they play. Example i sometimes play TF2 same sm_admin commands that i know from source just different server rules that i don't know that's why i only admin the code of conduct let the people trained in the server deal with server rule breakers

 

[Michael Bolton]

Just to tackle this from a leadership stand point, I'll use Garry's Mod as an example because it's what I'm most familiar with. There are people that have played on CSGO TTT and will hop into GMod TTT thinking it's exactly the same and just admin. That's bad. Along with that, there are admins that may have played mostly on Prop Hunt and don't fully understand TTT, even though they were trained for it. At this point, if something comes up (and notice I'm not using the example of another admin being on server, because that's not always the case), I expect them to handle it because an Admin Trainer has sat down with the person at some point and went through everything about TTT and how to admin it. If they're not doing their job and handling issues when they come up, then I have to find out why. While I understand that not everyone is comfortable with TTT rules, they were trained in it for a reason and that's specifically so if they're in the server, they can handle whatever comes up.

Doing selective training means I don't have to get onto an admin for not handling situations in a server that they're trained to handle, but don't feel comfortable handling. It means that ATs don't have to sit down with someone for 30-60 minutes to go over a gamemode that the admin isn't going to play on. When you receive training for something, you're expected to handle issues that happen there. As of right now, if you got reported because you weren't handling issues that came up in Jail, I'd come to you and ask, "Why were you not handling issues that came up?" and you use the excuse of, I'm not comfortable handling that, then I'm going to come back with, "What's the point of training you for it then?" This solves that issue. I realize I circled back to a point I made earlier, but I think it's an important thing because if you've never been on the receiving end of that talk, then you may not know those talks actually happen.

I'd also like to add in that this idea isn't fully worked out as it could be a while before it's ready to be implemented if it even is implemented. There has yet to be a definitive statement that says, "If you're not trained in TTT, then you won't have any admin powers at all." So, your worry for that is completely out of left field here. You get trained in Global EGO Policies. Why would we not let you handle those policies in server? However, you have additional commands in Jail like CT Ban, Fire, TeamSwap, etc. and if you're not trained to use those commands, you probably shouldn't have access to those commands. At no point has it been said that you won't be able to admin at all. This is simply a suggestion for now and if it's implemented, will take time. We have plenty of time to work out all the details of how it should work before it ever gets put into place, if it gets put into place.

 

[Drewerth]

I'd also like to add in that this idea isn't fully worked out as it could be a while before it's ready to be implemented if it even is implemented. There has yet to be a definitive statement that says, "If you're not trained in TTT, then you won't have any admin powers at all." So, your worry for that is completely out of left field here. You get trained in Global EGO Policies. Why would we not let you handle those policies in server? However, you have additional commands in Jail like CT Ban, Fire, TeamSwap, etc. and if you're not trained to use those commands, you probably shouldn't have access to those commands. At no point has it been said that you won't be able to admin at all. This is simply a suggestion for now and if it's implemented, will take time. We have plenty of time to work out all the details of how it should work before it ever gets put into place, if it gets put into place.

Just to continue from here, once again for Garry's Mod;

The new Maul plugin that our GM servers will use upon completion will be capable of all possible outcomes and perspectives here, being a "no admin", "limited admin", and "fully trained assignment".

It's as simple as me tackling in new usergroups like "ttt" that grants access to typical TTT commands, etc.

 

[Mayhem Death]

When the new MAUL update is pushed, this will be taken into consideration. Thanks for the awesome suggestion!